To IV-Mystic Dreamer

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2004
To IV-Mystic Dreamer
72
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 9:58am
From a 25 yr old Englishwoman

I read your post (or should I say article!) on Bush's half-truths and non-truths, it was very interesting. A couple of thoughts:

How can you have a war on terror? It's not a country. It's not a race, nor a gender. It's a feeling!!! 9/11 was horribly wrong, but it was far from unprecedented. Here in the UK, we've been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, specifically from the IRA and other groups like it. But we didn't go and bomb the sh*t out of Australia because they had tenuous links to Ireland! This is not to say that we should be lenient on terrorists. But the vast majority of Iraqis who are now dead were not terrorists. If the minds behind 9/11 could be found, I'd gleefully pull the trigger myself, but why are we killing people with no connection whatsoever to that atrocity?

The idea of Bush and Blair sitting together praying gives me shivers. Separation of Church and State, people! Isn't that what your Constitution says?

Both of them have been proved to be liars, and to have taken our countries and our young men and women into war on completely fabricated grounds. I confess, I'm glad the Taliban are no longer in power in Afghanistan, but it's the height of idiocy to believe that we went into Iraq for any other primary reason than OIL!

baby siggy

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2004
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 10:34am
I haven't heard of any 'impeachment' of Tony Blair, but there have been reports and inquiries since the official end of the war. Effectively the nation has been told that it was lied to, and it's up to us to decide whether to keep him in or boot him out.

Gorgeous kids by the way :o)

baby siggy
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-29-2003
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 10:39am
Thank you!


 


Mich

Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 10:42am
At least you guys got an apology from Mr. Blair.
The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-29-2003
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 10:43am

Oh, so it sounds like there are just some rumblings going on-----good luck in whatever you guys decide


 


Mich

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-09-2003
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 10:47am
"thank you later for the sacrifices you're making? call me mad, but weren't our lads right there with yours in each action?"

They most certainly were... it's such a shame that many people forget there aren't just U.S. troops there, they've come from all over the world.

"Without music, life is a journey through the desert"...

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2004
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 10:52am
Vietnam, absolutely!! I'm very pleased to speak to someone else who sees this - with Vietnam it was 'Communism is a threat to our way of life', now it's 'Terrorism is a threat to our way of life'. There will ALWAYS be threats to our ways of life! including nature itself. But there are other ways to deal with threats than war. War should be the last resort, not a fix-all solution applied to every problem!

It seems that there have been 65 British deaths in Iraq to date. yes you heard me - sixty-five. Obviously the Americans are held up as the Great Big Bad across quite a lot of the Islamic world, which would make them targets more than the English. In any case, if anyone is reading this who has lost anyone in Iraq (or in 9/11, Bali or Afghanistan come to that), you have my sincerest sympathies.

baby siggy
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2004
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 10:56am
i think Apology may not be the right word - it was more a case of 'Well yes I lied but it doesn't actually matter because I thought it was all for the best'. Which, when you look at it is not only not an apology but is in fact saying 'I didn't think you were clever enough to be told the truth'.

do you think that Kerry is a good man? Bush is a complete turd of course, but is Kerry better? it's an honest question, I don't know very much about him.

baby siggy
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 11:00am
TM:

With all due respect, have to question your apparent support for Nader in this important time in our nation's history. I would be the first to admit that a big part of the problem with American politics is a corrupt government that has enacted some 1400 laws and codes to hinder the forming of and participation in government of alternative political parties. However, it is also my hope that in this year, in this election all of us who oppose the direction of this country can be united in making sure George Bush is not put back into the Whitehouse for another four years. For that to happen, we cannot divide our vote, and Nader is hoping to do exactly that once again. Let us not forget, that if Nader had not been so bent on division in 2000, Bush never would have been able to sneak in through the back door. For everything there is a season, and I believe in my heart that the season for alternative parties and choices will come, but I do not think we can afford for that season to come this year.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 11:03am
<>

That's so true. Recently Bush himself finally admitted (much to the chagrin of the rest of his administration) that the war on Terror may not be winnable.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/08/31/in_interview_president_suggests_war_on_terror_cant_be_won/

Personally for me, that was one of the few things he has said that makes any kind of sense (but it's too little too late). By looking at theis complex issue as a "war", they've totally missed the mark. That's what many (liberals, Democrats and people in other countries) had been saying all along. That's what I believe as well and can't quite understand the American tendency to declare "war" on concepts, feelings and adjectives. It makes for good sound bites and gives the people something to root for....OK folks lets all root for a metaphore. Let's all stick our head in the sand and just pretend that American foreign policy often does not match American ideals and has absolutely NOTHING to do with some of the anti-American sentiment that is growing worldwide.

However I've been feeling lately while following the news and seeing all the screeching, lying, exagarrating and posturing on both sides that I've fallen down the rabbit hole or passed through the looking glass into some sort of Orwellian 1984 scenario where logic and reality have been suspended.

NOW the Democrats are smirking at Bush saying the war on Terror might not be won that somehow suddenly it CAN and you just need a president with a cando attitude and they can provide it. They are more concerned with a political gaff to their advantage in an election year than they are to the truth. I just want to pull my hair out at the utter stupidity and futility of it all. Now black is white and white is black. Not everyone has that short of a memory but it appears that the majority of the voting public in America does. If this is true it's a tragedy....if it isn't it's an insult.

At some point during this election I did have some hope that a change in regime would somehow improve diplomatic relations around the world and that will be important to take the international steps necessary to help thwart terrorists attempts to organize themselves (funding, cross border planning etc....). This really is a red tape issue and an intelligence issue that requires global cooperation NOT a war issue that requires bombs, alienation, more unecessary deaths, bravado and cowboy mentality etc...But I have no hope any more.

This election just reeks and whatever happens and whoever wins doesn't make a damned bit of difference....so go to it Americans....have your election and continue to drive the globe in the direction you want it to go. We are powerless against the political whims and posturing of your leaders and against their idealiogical but ILLogical pie in the sky vision that you gobble up without truely thinking about it.

Watching the Republican love-fest last night and the speeches and rhetoric I was sickened. Gulianni made a very moving speech filled with illogical but emotional rhetoric. He siad that he had a feeling that the war on terro will be won....perhaps with the power of positive thinking? He is a powerful speaker there's no doubt. They took full advantage of the spectre of 9/11, hosting it in New York, milking it for all it was worth pulling up widows to speak, taking Kerry's words out of context (not that he's any great inspiration).

Too bad they couldn't have planned the War in Iraq as well as well as they planned their convention. They also seem to be capable of manipulating emotions as could be seen by the evangelical atmosphere of the convention during the speeches with people nodding and tears streaming down their cheeks. I suppose they thing that the rest of the world is as gullible as those at the convention.

I admire MaCain but even he has sold himself out. I think he has designs on the presidency and it's in his best interests not to change parties (maybe Gulliani will be his running mate....not a bd ticket really....better than this election at any rate). So instead MCain travels the country with Bush (the man who stabbed him in the back) allowing him to kiss him on the head instead. I think he might make a good president in four years provided he doesn't inherit a country that is worse off than it is now in terms of debt and war zones. What's next in this so called "War" on Terror? Is Iraq next?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 11:05am
As a Vietnam Era Veteran...was fortunate in that I was never in Vietnam, I do see the very real simularities between the two conflicts.

Just a side note here...so often, we have things put in front of us to deflect us from the truth, to keep our scrutiny off of those who are the true culprits. The rich and elite want to foster hate, discrimination and bigotry, because in doing so they deflect our attention from the truth. Our problems are not with each other, our problems are not caused by people of different origins, skin colors or religions, but those in power, those who control the money, wealth and natural resources would like us to believe it is so. Perhaps when we can wake up to this reality, when we can put aside those hates and prejudices that blind us from the truth we can begin to demand accountibility from those who have misled us all this generations upon generations in a quest to hold onto that power they see as theirs.

Pages