US Deaths 999 - Cost $200,000,000,000

Avatar for car_al
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
US Deaths 999 - Cost $200,000,000,000
33
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 1:54pm
The number of American deaths in the war is now OVER 1000 and the financial cost is now over $200,000,000,000. How can this administration describe this as a success?

C

Thirteen U.S. troops killed in latest Iraq fighting

Two Italian humanitarian workers kidnapped

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Thirteen U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq since Monday, U.S. military officials said, bringing the number of American deaths in the war to 999.

Six soldiers and seven Marines were killed in the fighting. The latest death came Tuesday morning when a soldier from the U.S. Army's 89th Military Police Brigade was killed as a patrol came under attack in western Baghdad. Another soldier was killed Tuesday in a rocket-propelled grenade attack in Baghdad's Sadr City.

Meanwhile, Iraqi police said two Italian women and three Iraqis were abducted by kidnappers dressed as Iraqi National Guard members.

An Italian intelligence source said the women worked for the humanitarian organization A Bridge for Baghdad.

Italian authorities identify the women as Simona Torretta and Simona Pari, both 29, according to media reports.

Fighting in Sadr City erupted between U.S. forces and insurgents in the teeming slum after a few days of calm.

Battles between U.S. troops and militants loyal to Shiite Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr killed at least 33 Iraqis in the Baghdad slum district and wounded 200 others, Iraqi officials said.

A spokesman for the 1st Calvary Division -- which is in charge of patrolling Sadr City -- said there were numerous overnight operations, but the official wouldn't provide details.

Tanks, armored personnel carriers and Bradley Fighting Vehicles moved along city streets, and the U.S. military said Air Force F-15 and F-16 jets flew combat support but dropped no weapons.

The fighting erupted when militants attacked American forces carrying out routine patrols, said U.S. Army Capt. Brian O'Malley.

"We just kept coming under fire," The Associated Press reported O'Malley as saying.

U.S. and Iraqi authorities have been trying to hammer out a peace agreement there a week and a half after al-Sadr and Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani reached a cease-fire in the south central city of Najaf -- where fierce fighting raged between U.S. and Iraqi forces and the Mehdi Army militia for three weeks in August.

An al-Sadr spokesman in Baghdad, Sheik Raed al-Kadhimi, blamed the outbreak of fighting on what he described as hostile U.S. incursions into Sadr City and attempts to arrest the cleric's followers.

In addition, five U.S. soldiers were wounded in a combination of roadside bombings and rocket-propelled grenade attacks Tuesday.

The other U.S. deaths Monday included a Task Force Baghdad soldier killed by a roadside bomb in Baghdad.

A soldier with the 13th Corps Support Command was killed in the northern Iraq town of Qayarra when a roadside bomb exploded, the military said.

Another U.S. soldier was killed and one wounded Monday night when a roadside bomb exploded as their military convoy passed by on a road near Baghdad, according to the U.S. military. The soldiers, whose names have not been released, also were assigned to the 13th Corps Support Command.

A U.S. soldier wounded in a Baghdad attack Monday afternoon died a short time later in a hospital, a U.S. military official said.

Earlier Monday, seven U.S. Marines and three Iraqi National Guard members were killed by a suicide car bomb as they patrolled on the outskirts of Falluja, a city west of Baghdad that has been a hotbed of resistance.

It was the largest number of casualties U.S. forces have suffered in a single incident since fighting in the spring near Ramadi.

Cleanup in Najaf

Iraqi and U.S. authorities continue their cleanup in Najaf.

Large numbers of weapons and munitions have been found in the Wadi al-Salem cemetery and buildings near the Imam Ali Mosque since fighting ended August 28, the U.S. military said.

So far, 1,258 weapons have been found and 10,596 munitions recovered, the military said.

Iraqi officials attacked

The governor of Baghdad escaped an assassination attempt unhurt early Tuesday when his convoy was attacked in a western district of the capital.

The convoy of the governor, Ali Al-Haidary, was driving through the Al-Adil district when the attack began, Interior Ministry spokesman Col. Adnan Abdul Rahman said.

Video from the scene showed at least one body being placed in an ambulance.

Masked gunmen Tuesday assassinated a Baghdad hospital official, Iraqi officials said.

Abbas al-Husseiny, deputy director of Al-Karama Hospital, was assassinated when three gunmen entered a restaurant where he was eating breakfast, according to police Col. Riyadh Abraheem and Sa'ad Al-Amili, a Ministry of Health official.

The restaurant and hospital are in al-Thahab district, officials said.

In northern Iraq, unknown assailants shot and killed the son of Nineveh provincial Gov. Duraid Kashmoula, Mosul police said. Laith Duraid Kashmoula was driving to work when assailants pulled up next to his car and opened fire with small arms, police said.

He was an employee in the Iraqi government's anti-corruption office in Mosul, the largest city in the northern Iraqi province. The governor's cousin, Usama Kashmoula, was shot dead in an ambush two months ago.

CNN's Kevin Flower, Cal Perry, Faris Qasira, Walter Rodgers and Alessio Vinci contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/07/iraq.main/index.html


Edited 9/9/2004 7:58 am ET ET by car_al

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-11-1999
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 8:32pm
"Communism failed?? Whew! Thank goodness for that! Oh.......wait.......I think someone forgot to tell China, North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam and Laos....."

What I was getting at in my post is that for years this country, mostly at the behest of the right wing, saw communism as some monolithic transnational "religion" or super political structure.

The Sino-Soviet split dates back to the 50s. One of the first results after the fall of Indo-China to communism was a Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia and a Chinese invasion of Vietnam. The "domino theory" that promised that if IndoChina fell Taiwan, the Phillipines, Australia and Hawaii would be next was a lot of bunk. If we had realized this we could have used nationalism to our advantage and not only avoided the Vietnam war but possibly hastened the collapse of communism.

This is the opening of the Vietnamese Declaration of Independence. Sound familiar?

(SEPTEMBER 2, 1945)

"All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness"

This immortal statement was made in the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense, this means: All the peoples on the earth are equal from birth, all the peoples have a right to live, to be happy and free.

The Declaration of the French Revolution made in 1791 on the Rights of Man and the Citizen also states: "All men are born free and with equal rights, and must always remain free and have equal rights." Those are undeniable truths. "

We are making the same mistake today. There is no monolithic, trans-national Terrorist or Islamist movement. Nasser's failed attempts to create a pan-Arabic movement in the 50s shows that nationalism still triumphs over all. By treating both Islam and terrorism this way we are forging an alliances the same way we did in the 50s. The Iraqi Baathists, while vicious thugs, were secular. Saddam Hussein probably killed more "Islamists" than George Bush could ever hope to. Yet by treating them as one we've forged an alliance between the Baathists and Islamists that's cost us over 1,000 of our troops killed.

Like I said, it's a good thing that the "they've got it coming" mentality didn't exist in regards to the Soviet Union after World War II. The earth would be a glowing cinder and would be for thousands of years, and neither you nor I would be here.

dablacksox


Cynic: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.---Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-27-2003
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 8:37pm
Death Toll in Iraq war a grim milestone

Tuesday September 07, 2004

By SHARON COHEN and PAULINE ARRILLAGA

AP National Writers

Their faces, smiling or solemn, are all too familiar in our newspapers and on television. Their names sound a somber roll call Smith, Falaniko, Ramos, Lee a roster that seems to grow daily.

U.S. military deaths in the Iraq campaign passed 1,000 on Tuesday.

The troops lost are sons and daughters from city streets and rural hamlets. They are teens who went from senior proms to boot camp and battle, and middle-aged family men who put aside retirement and grandchildren for the dangers of a war zone.

What they share is they will not see home again.

What does the number mean? On D-Day alone, more Americans lost their lives. At the peak of Vietnam, hundreds of U.S. troops were dying each week. And in just one September morning three years ago, 2,792 people perished when two towers crumbled to the streets of New York.

Still, 1,000 is a grim milestone.

The conflict in Iraq has claimed almost three times the number of Americans lost in the entire Persian Gulf War. And this time, the vast majority of U.S. deaths all but 138 came after major combat operations were declared over. ``Mission Accomplished,'' read a banner on the aircraft carrier where President Bush spoke on May 1, 2003.

Sixteen months later, the fighting goes on. So do the funerals.

The lengthening casualty roster reflects a front line that shifted from sandy deserts to shadowy streets, a stubborn insurgency, a conflict far bloodier than many expected.

Back home, there is another growing count: Towns that lost future firefighters and policemen, churches left without Sunday school teachers, families where infants will never meet their dads.

``It's almost like losing a community,'' says Luis Pizzini, an educator in San Diego, Texas. Two of his former students died in Iraq.

Ruben Valdez, 21, and Jose Amancio Perez, 22, grew up on the same block.

Now, the two young men lie buried a few feet apart.

=

The fallen are an American mosaic.

The youngest was just 18. The oldest, 59. More than half had not seen their 30th birthday, according to an Associated Press analysis of Department of Defense statistics for those who died since the war started on March 19, 2003.

The number of troops who have died reached 999 on Tuesday; three civilians working for the Pentagon also have been killed in the war. The tally was compiled by AP based on Pentagon records, AP reporting from Iraq, and reports from soldiers' families.

Of those who have died, 97 percent were men; about two dozen were women. While more than 600 were white, others were black, Hispanic, Asian and American Indian.

There were kids who had never fired a shot at an enemy, and veterans of Desert Storm, Bosnia, Kosovo even Vietnam.

They hailed from the urban bustle of Chicago, New York and Houston, as well as the cornfields of Silvana, Wash., and the coal mine country of Varney, W.Va. and from every state but Alaska.

They represented U.S. territories, and more than three dozen were born in foreign countries, including Thailand, India and Poland. While many had been naturalized, at least 10 died reaching for their vision of the American dream: to become U.S. citizens.

Army Pfc. Diego Rincon, a native of Colombia, was among them. After he was killed in a suicide bombing, his father, Jorge, lobbied Congress, which passed legislation giving posthumous citizenship to his 19-year-old son and other foreign-born soldiers killed in battle.

Jose Gutierrez grew up an orphan in Guatemala, crossed the border illegally, obtained a visa, graduated from high school, and eventually became a Marine. At age 28, the lance corporal was buried in his native land, an American flag covering his casket.

In a poem called ``Letter to God,'' Gutierrez once wrote: ``Thank you for what I have ... for my dreams that don't die.''

(The Iraq war also has claimed the lives of more than 120 foreign troops who were part of the U.S.-led coalition; about half were in the British military. Some 135 Americans have died in anti-terror operations in Afghanistan, Pakistan and other countries.)

Although most more than 700 were in the Army, Americans who have died in the Iraq war wore the uniforms of every branch of service. Among them was the first Coast Guardsman to die in combat since Vietnam.

Some 80 percent were in the active-duty military, the remainder in Guard and Reserve units.

About 70 percent were killed in action, and there were more than 160 accidental deaths, many involving vehicles.

Yet numbers are only part of the story.

Those who died were as different as they were the same: There were homecoming kings and class presidents, Scout leaders and Little League coaches. A young man from the projects who put a hip-hop beat to ``Amazing Grace'' on the bus to church camp. A lawyer fascinated with tanks. An Army specialist nicknamed ``Ketchup'' who would sneak food to Iraqi children.

There was Trevor Spink, a 36-year-old staff sergeant in his third tour in Iraq. His steady, confident gaze was once the face on Marine recruitment posters. Now, his mother has decided, that portrait will adorn his tombstone.

There was Army pilot Aaron Weaver, 32, who had survived cancer and a rocket attack in the 1993 battle of Mogadishu, Somalia, recounted in ``Black Hawk Down.'' The Bronze Star recipient and father of a baby girl was so determined to go to Iraq, he secured special medical clearance so he could fly.

``Nobody wants to leave their buddies behind,'' says his father, Mike Weaver. ``Being an Army Ranger it's a close-knit family.''

So many were so very young, men and women just beginning lives filled with promise.

Marine Lance Cpl. Aaron Austin, 21, proposed to fiancee Tiffany Frank by telephone from Iraq. They set a wedding date, Dec. 11.

``We had the church reserved, the pastor reserved, the reception hall reserved,'' Tiffany says. ``Now I can only dream about what we would have had.''

Roger Rowe already had everything he wanted: A 34-year marriage to his childhood friend, four children and seven grandchildren who called him ``Papa.'' Still, at 54, the Vietnam veteran had no hesitation about serving in Iraq as part of the Tennessee National Guard.

``He said, 'What a lifetime experience this will be to be able to help that country,''' remembers his widow, Shirley. ``He was always an optimist.''

Others saw the military as a steppingstone: a way to save money for college, buy a first home, broaden horizons or build a career.

James Adamouski, a 29-year-old Army captain, had already served in Bosnia and Kosovo and had many accomplishments: He was a West Point graduate and former semiprofessional soccer player in Germany. He also was about to start Harvard Business School, and had his eye on politics.

During a Memorial Day visit to the White House last year, his father, Frank Adamouski, spoke briefly with President Bush about what might have been. ``I always knew I was going to have breakfast in the White House,'' he recalls saying. ``But I always thought my son was going to be president when I did.''

Army Pfc. Jesse Buryj had his own plans to become a Canton, Ohio, police officer. He enlisted because he was too young to join the force.

The 21-year-old newlywed died a hero, credited with saving fellow soldiers when he fired more than 400 rounds at a dump truck attempting to crash a checkpoint.

``I know he went out in a blaze of glory,'' says his mother, Peggy. ``They say he showed no fear and gave no ground.''

Others expressed bitterness over the loss of loved ones in a war they considered unjustified.

``It just rubbed salt in the wound to hear them talk about, well maybe they didn't have all the information, maybe the intelligence was faulty,'' says Oliva Smith, whose 41-year-old husband, Bruce, was killed when a missile downed his helicopter.

There is another void almost too great to fathom: More than 500 sons and daughters have been left without a father, and at least five boys and girls lost their mothers.

Some two dozen soldiers had wives who were pregnant, men like 23-year-old Micheal Dooley who had picked a name, Shea, from afar for his first child. His widow, Christine, now takes Shea to the mausoleum where Dooley rests, presses her daughter's hand to her own lips and then to the wall of the crypt, telling her: ``That's the way we kiss Daddy.''

These 1,000 men and women are home again, their war over.

The Rincon house in Conyers, Ga., is filled with memories of Diego: His neatly pressed uniform is spread out on his bed, his framed citizenship papers are on the wall.

Diego Rincon was cremated, but he has not been laid to rest. His family isn't ready for the final goodbye.

``One day when I'm old,'' his father says, ``I'm going to bury him in Arlington. But not now. Not right now.''


ave actually reached 1000.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-27-2003
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 8:41pm
Perfectly stated. Great post.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-27-2003
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 8:43pm
<<>> Yes it is agreat cost 1000 lives to stroke one mans ego.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-06-2004
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 8:51pm
You're right.....sorry I was so flippant! I always look forward to your posts!!!
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2004
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 9:36pm


Sorry, that's just wrong. I won't post a link, as they are simply too numerous. Do a Google of "Iraq ties to terror", read a bit beyond motherjones.com and you'll find plenty of credible proof that Iraq harbored, trained and funded terrorists.



I fail to see how our attack on Iraq means we view terrorism as a monolithic entity. If anything our invasion of Iraq proves that we are well aware that terrorism and terroristic threats to our national security do not just fall under the fundamentalist Islamic blanket. We can't fight "terrorism"-it's not a country or a specific group of people. We have to dismantle it piece by piece, we have to help eliminate the conditions which foster it, we have to eliminate its sources of funding, we have to eliminate places where terrorists can safely train and hide and escape retribution. The action in Iraq is a step towards accomplishing all of those objectives. The terrorist organizations know this-why else would they be fighting so hard against an accountable, representative government in Iraq? If Islamic fundamentalist regimes are so darn popular over there, why don't the terrorist organizations simply stop fighting and allow the folks to elect one? The fact is, it's a very small percentage of the population which is against our initial action, though granted most of them would like us gone now.

< 1,000 American servicemen have paid the price for this. >

If you think that foreign terrorists have not played as large or larger part in these casualties as the nationalism of Iraqis you're simply blind to the facts.



Firstly I would say, tell it to the UN who passed resolution 1441 declaring Iraq a threat with WMD's who must disarm or face serious consequences. Secondly,I would say that diplomacy is still being attempted with Iran and North Korea, both of these countries are using their threats as bargaining chips to negotiate with, if the time comes when it becomes apparent that diplomacy has failed and that there is no rational belief that disarmament will ever occur, or that these countries are an imminent threat to our national security, as with Saddam, then action will have to be taken against those nations as well. No question, action against North Korea would make Iraq look like a cake walk, so there IS reason to proceed with a great deal more caution in that case.



As I said, Bush has consistently stated that the only link is the lesson learned from 9/11, the lesson of not waiting for threats to become realities, he has never tried to claim that Iraq is directly responsible for 9/11. If that is a distinction too complicated for some to make I really can't help that. But what I really think is that most people understand the distinction, though some refuse to acknowledge it.



No, what they reported was that they were denied access to the locations, documents, and private interviews (without penalty of reprisal, and we all know what reprisal meant in Saddam's Iraq) with government officials that they needed to determine whether there were WMD's. Saddam was told to cooperate, he chose not to.

< We now have a pygmy president and party trying to get re-elected by appealing to naked fear in order to mask their foreign policy and domestic failures>

I find it absolutely hilarious that the president can on the one hand be blamed for not doing enough to stop a terrorist attack, yet when he acts to prevent further attacks, or even to WARN the country of further attacks, he is accused of "appealing to naked fear". Meanwhile Kerry uses the idea that he served in Vietnam for 4 months as evidence that he is the better person to protect us from terrorism. He has advanced not one single policy or idea on how he will stop terrorist attacks against us, though he blowhardedly claims he will win the war. Dems just don't get it-we want a president who understands the gravity of the problem the world is currently dealing with, and will act with strength and conviction against it. That's not appealing to fear-that's addressing the real concerns of the nation. Bush has proven that he has the strength and conviction to do it, and that he's not buying into the "it's all our fault they attacked us" line of reasoning coming from the left.

< I'm really curious as to where democracy is budding in the Middle East. >

Iraq and Afghanistan, my friend. Over 90% of eleigible voters in Afghanistan are currently registered to vote-sounds like a budding democracy to me. As one of the Rep speakers stated, freedom is never free. It will be a long battle and the enemies of freedom will fight tooth and nail, but freedom will win. Sorry you have no faith in human nature and the universal human desire for self-determination, but I do.



I believe it's far too early to make any such judgement, but in every bold action ever taken in the history of the world there have been those who will claim it will go down in history as the biggest mistake ever made. Your statement reminds me of how Reagan's policies were scoffed at-how he was called arrogant, simple minded, dangerous-he was supposed to be the one who started the nuclear war, remember that? But his critics were wrong, just as Bush's are wrong now. I believe that history will bear that out-because whether some on the left want to believe it or not, we ARE the good guys.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2004
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 9:39pm


I don't think any of these countries could be called "successes", do you? They are all in economic and humanitarian crisis, as all communist countries are doomed to end up...

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 9:46pm

Saddam CHOSE the consequences, let us not forget-if our intelligence was wrong and Saddam truly had no WMD's, he could have easily avoided the whole action by cooperating with the UN-he chose not to


Donna
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 9:51pm

The U.N. threatened "severe consequences" but didn't follow through (maybe it had something to do with the "oil for food" scam so many were getting rich off of).


The "sever consequences" line was in Powell's speech. The UN wanted more inspections, to try a bit longer without a war. I am reading Plan of Attack which explains this fully. Many asked how sure the US was of the WMDs and the answer was not encouraging in their private conversations. In the speeches to the world we heard how sure they were (but they were not) of the WMDs, CW and BW.

Donna
Donna
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-11-1999
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 10:25pm
"Do a Google of "Iraq ties to terror", read a bit beyond motherjones.com and you'll find plenty of credible proof that Iraq harbored, trained and funded terrorists."

I did a google on "satan eats biscuits" and got 34 hits. I'm not interested in some rightwing talking head's spin on Iraq's terrorists ties. The CIA found no tie-ins between Iraq and international terrorism. And there certainly weren't even enough hints to justify the slaughter of 14,000 Iraqis and 1,000 Americans with god knows how many wounded.

"I fail to see how our attack on Iraq means we view terrorism as a monolithic entity. If anything our invasion of Iraq proves that we are well aware that terrorism and terroristic threats to our national security do not just fall under the fundamentalist Islamic blanket."

See above.

"We have to dismantle it piece by piece, we have to help eliminate the conditions which foster it, we have to eliminate its sources of funding, we have to eliminate places where terrorists can safely train and hide and escape retribution. "

Worldwide terrorist attacks rose last year. Again. Sounds like we aren't doing a very good job, doesn't it.

"The action in Iraq is a step towards accomplishing all of those objectives."

The action in Iraq has turned all of the Iraqi Baathists into terrorists and turned Iraq into a vast breeding ground for terrorists. Interesting view of "success" you have.

"The terrorist organizations know this-why else would they be fighting so hard against an accountable, representative government in Iraq? If Islamic fundamentalist regimes are so darn popular over there, why don't the terrorist organizations simply stop fighting and allow the folks to elect one?"

Number 1, they are fighting against us.

Munber 2, that is exactly what they want to do-elect a fundamentalist governmnet in Iraq. WE won't let them, we refuse to allow one man one vote democracy because it means the Shiites will elect a theocracy that the Kurds won't live under. This is one of the biggest Shiite/US problems.

"If you think that foreign terrorists have not played as large or larger part in these casualties as the nationalism of Iraqis you're simply blind to the facts. "

And who opened the Iraqi door to these foreign terrorists?

"Firstly I would say, tell it to the UN who passed resolution 1441 declaring Iraq a threat with WMD's who must disarm or face serious consequences. "

And who unilateraly interpretted this as war?

"if the time comes when it becomes apparent that diplomacy has failed and that there is no rational belief that disarmament will ever occur, or that these countries are an imminent threat to our national security, as with Saddam, then action will have to be taken against those nations as well."


Except that since the administration has promised that we will be bogged down in Iraq for 10 years, there isn't much chance of that happening.

"As I said, Bush has consistently stated that the only link is the lesson learned from 9/11, the lesson of not waiting for threats to become realities, he has never tried to claim that Iraq is directly responsible for 9/11. "

And Bush continually mentions the 2 in the same sentence. Don't be coy, Bush sure isn't.

"No, what they reported was that they were denied access to the locations, documents, and private interviews "

And we ignored everything they reported in our rush to war.

"Dems just don't get it-we want a president who understands the gravity of the problem the world is currently dealing with, and will act with strength and conviction against it. "

Where is bin Laden?

"Bush has proven that he has the strength and conviction to do it, and that he's not buying into the "it's all our fault they attacked us" line of reasoning coming from the left."


This is called a "Straw Man Argument". Do a google on that to learn why it's not even worth responding to.


"Iraq and Afghanistan, my friend. Over 90% of eleigible voters in Afghanistan are currently registered to vote-sounds like a budding democracy to me. As one of the Rep speakers stated, freedom is never free. It will be a long battle and the enemies of freedom will fight tooth and nail, but freedom will win. Sorry you have no faith in human nature and the universal human desire for self-determination, but I do."

Afghanistan isn't in the Middle East. (And I supported Bush in invading there, by the way). And if you think Iraq is a budding democracy, you have a geranium in your cranium, as Ann Landers would have said. Afghanistan is currently ruled by warlords we failed to disarm, and opium production has skyrocketed.

"Your statement reminds me of how Reagan's policies were scoffed at-how he was called arrogant, simple minded, dangerous-he was supposed to be the one who started the nuclear war, remember that?"

We had 4 embasies and the Beruit Marine barracks bombed under Reagan, and he responded by selling arms to their sponsor, Iran. Sounds pretty simple minded and dangerous to me, especially since bin Laden is on record as having stated that the pullout from Beruit encouraged him.

"I believe that history will bear that out-because whether some on the left want to believe it or not, we ARE the good guys."

Whether we are the good guys or not, we have fractured Iraq into 3 parts, with all the problems that will cause. We are losing GIs every day without a clue as to what to do about it. We have no exit strategy and at this point no goal. Iraq will be studied as a classic debacle for years.



















dablacksox


Cynic: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.---Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.