Killian Office Memo Not Similar to CBS

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Killian Office Memo Not Similar to CBS
99
Sat, 09-11-2004 - 11:16am
CBS memo: http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay4.pdf

An analysis done on CBS memo: http://img41.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img41&image=60minbusted.swf

Memo from military (click 'enlarge' icon): http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc25.gif

And some funny comments: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1212833/posts

I want to see how the Sunday morning lib shows will spin this. What I want to know is how the DNC planned to get away with these forgeries knowing that ALL sources are easily verifiable on the internet?



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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Sat, 09-11-2004 - 1:26pm
Rather Defends CBS Over Memos on Bush


By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, September 11, 2004; Page A07



Dan Rather vigorously defended his "60 Minutes" story on President Bush's National Guard service yesterday, saying the 30-year-old memos he disclosed on the show this week "were and remain authentic," despite questions raised by some handwriting and document experts.


"Until someone shows me definitive proof that they are not, I don't see any reason to carry on a conversation with the professional rumor mill," the CBS anchor said. "My colleagues and I at '60 Minutes' made great efforts to authenticate these documents and to corroborate the story as best we could. . . . I think the public is smart enough to see from whom some of this criticism is coming and draw judgments about what the motivations are."


The memos, described as having been written by Bush's squadron commander, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian, indicate that Bush got special treatment as a pilot in the Texas Air National Guard and failed to carry out a superior's order to undergo a physical exam. Several experts consulted by news organizations say the memos contain typographical and formatting features that suggest they were written on a computer or word processor rather than on an early 1970s government typewriter.


Rather said that CBS's lead expert was Marcel Matley of San Francisco, a member of the National Association of Document Examiners who has taught, lectured and written about his field, testified in numerous trials, and consulted for government agencies. Matley said last night that a "60 Minutes" executive had asked him not to give interviews.


The Dallas Morning News cast fresh doubt on the documents by reporting last night that the officer named in one memo as exerting pressure to "sugarcoat" Bush's military record was discharged a year and a half before the memo was written. The paper cited a military record showing that Col. Walter "Buck" Staudt was honorably discharged on March 1, 1972, while the memo cited by CBS as showing that Staudt was interfering with evaluations of Bush was dated Aug. 18, 1973.


The White House is raising doubts for the first time about the documents' authenticity. "I think there's a big question mark, like major news organizations are suggesting," communications director Dan Bartlett said last night. "Obviously, we see the same things that other people are pointing out now. But at the time, I had every reason to believe that a major news organization had authentic documents."


Killian's widow and son have also questioned whether the documents are real.


CBS News President Andrew Heyward staunchly defended the piece. "I have full confidence in our reporting on this story and in every reporter on both sides of the camera," he said last night. "This is going to hold up. This was thoroughly vetted."


Conservatives hammered Rather and CBS yesterday on talk radio and Internet sites. "I predict . . . that it's only a matter of time before CBS admits it was deceived," wrote Weekly Standard Managing Editor Richard Starr.


In an interview, Rather stressed that CBS had talked to two people who worked with Killian in the Texas Guard -- his superior, retired Maj. Gen. Bobby Hodges, and his administrative assistant, Robert Strong -- and both described the memos as consistent with what they knew of Killian. Hodges, who told CBS he was "familiar" with the documents, is an avid Bush supporter, and "it took a lot for him to speak the truth," Rather said.


Before airing Wednesday's segment, he said, CBS "vetted" the confidential source who provided the memos and concluded that "he did have the ability to get access to these documents and he was being truthful." Beyond that, Rather said, CBS consulted with military experts about Killian's language and the documents' format and compared them to other Bush service records previously released by the White House. "We decided there was a preponderance of evidence that they are what they purport to be," he said.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12809-2004Sep10.html

Donna
Donna
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Sat, 09-11-2004 - 1:29pm
The real question here is what if they are indeed true??
Donna
Donna
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-06-2004
Sat, 09-11-2004 - 1:32pm
There's a similar article in this vein over on the "In the News" board, under the "CBS credibility is gone" thread, posted by hayashig.

http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-elinthenews&msg=7155.25

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2004
Sat, 09-11-2004 - 2:41pm
I disagree. The bigger question is what if they are forgeries.

Dan Rather is finished. CBS news has a permanent black eye, from which it will take years to recover, Kerry is most likely finished this time around, and McAulliffe will most likely have to step down as head of the DNC.

That is just for starters.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2003
Sat, 09-11-2004 - 2:49pm
I'm sorry, I didn't read it, I heard it on the radio news report on the way to work yesterday morning. I haven't had time to search for any further information that supports what the reporter said, and as I said, they gave no sources. It seems like at the present time there is just a lot of "information" on this flying around, but it is unclear as to what is fact, what is pure fiction, and what is speculation. I just wanted to share that such comments were made in the news, at least yesterday morning, normally, this is something I wouldn't have mentioned at all b/c I only heard it in one place. I find that all this contradictory information flying around is very frustrating, and for someone like me, that is trying to understand this whole politics thing better and not just blindly follow one party, it is defeating. With the rush to have the exclusive headline, and the presence of 24 hour cable news, anyone can get their version of any story out there, and chances are, someone is going to pick it up believe it, and pass it along. I may have been duped into doing just that here!
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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Sun, 09-12-2004 - 11:44am
Great link! Thanks for posting.

Renee ~~~

Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2004
Sun, 09-12-2004 - 2:51pm
The facts that are going against CBS and the memos:

1) Killian's wife said that her husband never kept memo's of this nature, and that he always spoke well of George Bush.

2) Killian's son said the same things, and offered CBS a list of names to corroberate his story, which CBS failed to follow up on. He also said that if these memos came from Killians personal files, they were not released by the family, who have these files.

3) Hodges said that he was misled by CBS into believing the memo's were handwritten, and was not shown the memos by CBS when questioned about them. He said that commanders keeping written memos in their own personal files was commonplace. Once he viewed the memos Hodges said that they were almost a certain fraud.

4) The LA Times reported that the handwriting expert that CBS quoted only saw ONE of the four memos, and did not have a chance to compare the others. Also, the LA Times article went on to say that Matley has been taken to task by th head of the American Forensic Institute who said that Matley has been wrong before, and seems to be again in this case.

5) The man that Killlian refers to in his memo as giving him pressure (Stodges I think his name was) had retired from the ANG 18 months prior to the memo being supposedly written by Killian.

6) Hodges also said that if these were official documents, they would have been included in Bush's personal military file, but not surprisingly, they do not exist there.

7) There is currently a reward being offered in a blog for anyone to produce a typewriter from 1973 that could have written this memo in the same fashion that it appears. To date, nobody has come forward with anything.

8) Hodges said that where Killian was stationed, there was no access to an IBM executive typewriter, who's price tag was approx. $20,000 back then, and these were the only typewriters that may have been able to produce the superscript which appears in the memos in question.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-20-2003
Sun, 09-12-2004 - 4:14pm
Could you please provide links to your sources for this post?

Thanks.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2004
Sun, 09-12-2004 - 4:15pm
Another point I saw recently, and I apologize for not having a link, it was a National Guard officer being interviewed on TV, if I am able to find a source for the info I will. One of the documents in question supposedly orders that Bush take his physical by May 14, but the regulations were that the physical must be completed by the end of the person's birthday month. Bush's birthday being in July, he would not even have been out of compliance by May 14, so there would have been no reason for his commanding officer to order that he take the physical by that date. He also said it just wasn't normal procedure for a commanding officer to issue what amounted to a personal letter ordering someone to take a physical in the first place.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Sun, 09-12-2004 - 5:50pm
It's a summary of all the information that has been coming out through the MSM & the blogosphere over the last few days. A google search will pull it all up and bring you up to date.

Renee ~~~

Renee ~~~

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