LATE reply to ?'s on "Baptists vote for"

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-09-2003
LATE reply to ?'s on "Baptists vote for"
4
Wed, 09-15-2004 - 6:25am
Hi there- thanks for your responses which were mild compared to what I'd expected- so let me elaborate a little further, and ONLY because you asked. ;) (I kept it vague because I have no interest in fighting about how YOU should vote for one side or the other- again I don't care who you vote for- this is just WHY I'm voting for Kerry.)

1) No, I am not going on two people's words that I should vote for Kerry. I've been sucking in every bit of media I can get my hands on for months over here in France. Yes- I know where I am. And, I'm so proud that France did NOT go to war when they didn't believe in it- as many my US friends feel now was the good choice. THEY couldn't see a link between Saddam & 9-11, and from where I'm sitting, the world is NOT a safer place to be. I've watched every documentary I can find on the US Govt., and there's just TOO much info lying out in the open for me (ME) to ignore. And I'm not just buying what's given to me, I'm still skeptical about what's presented to me.

(There was a month-long celebration over here for the Liberation of France in 1944, and much of the party was celebrating the US! I do get SO peeved when Americans say naively, "France forgets what we did for them!" ....ggggggrrrrrr horsepucky. The do NOT. WE forget what they do for US, and STILL they celebrate the US. The war in Iraq was like going home with a really awful person at a bar. France warned against it, but the US went charging in with beer goggles on. And people on NPR say, "See? Even French reporters are getting taken hostage!! It didn't work!" Well- if they'd read the international news, they SHOULD have seen that it was a fight over the new law about headscarves in France, NOT about the US lead invasion.)

"The Truth and Lies of 9-11". Good, convincing info that shows, at the least, that the Gov't more or less let it happen for political gain. I do NOT think the US Gov't is THAT dumb otherwise.

"Farenheight 9-11". If you only agree with SOME of it, you have to think twice about who you vote for.

"Distorted Morality". "What is terrorism? I have been assuming we understand it. Well, what is it? Well, there happen to be some easy answers to this. There is an official definition. You can find it in the US code or in US army manuals. A brief statement of it taken from a US army manual, is fair enough, is that "Terror is the calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to attain political or religious ideological goals through intimidation, coercion, or instilling fear." ThatÕs terrorism. ThatÕs a fair enough definition."

The program discusses the idea that while the US Military uses that definition of terrorism, no one has noticed that the biggest terrorist organization in the world IS the US Gov't & Military- using their own definition of what terror is... and they go & do it anyway.

"Manufacturing Consent" A bit of a snore, but lots of proof that our media is being run by 23 groups who absolutely have agendas to play, and will only allow what THEY want to be talked about;

For example, there's a product that's injected into cows in the US that causes the cows to produce more milk, but causes them considerable pain & disease & such--- but no one stops it because it produces more milk, EVEN though we already have more than enough milk. Somehow, this chemical is as yet untouched, and WE DRINK IT. Do we think the same deformities can't happen to people? They showed the cows in question- it was frightening. One of the worst side effects was the enormous udders the cows had due to this chemical, and it was said that the puss from the infection goes right into the milk which is then sold to the public.

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/MilkMustache.htm

BUT, Monsanto, the maker of the drug, spends a LOT of money on their commercial air time, so the reporters who wanted to alert the public to this awful info were completely blocked in doing so because it was "bad for business". They sued, they lost. So, it's still going on.

What does that have to do with Gov't? It has to do with the fact that I trust NO t.v. news in the US to be honest. They are working for money only, even if the reporters WANT to do what's right.

Websites like;

www.costofwar.com (shows you what the money in each state and cities in each state COULD have been used for)

wwwtheworldvotes.com (shows what the rest of the world thinks of our elections)

http://www.911-strike.com/debunking.htm (this one is entertaining, but I do have lots of questions about it.)

http://www.worldnewsstand.net/history/fighter.htm (this one too)

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/fiore/2004/07/07_201.html (just funny)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/09/03_hard.html (statistics about job growth etc. during the terms of the last 10 presidents)

This is my SHORT list. There's SOOO much info to be found out there, I feel I would have to be completely blind to vote for Bush. DO I THINK KERRY IS BETTER? Not much, since he's also part of the whole elite world. This is a dream ballot for the elite, they can't lose!! But I like what he's CLAIMING he'll do if elected.

I notice at the RNC, Cheney cheered the "men in uniform".... but NOT the guy running against them? I find their whole campaign blatantly absurd & contradictory. So few people notice how many times BUSH "flip-flops" about politics all the time. I think it comes with the territory. Heck, as I learn new info I try to be open to better ideas, new ways of thinking- it's not a crime to be openminded. But don't accuse others of something YOU do yourself- and say it's a crime only when THEY do it. Please.

I think we SHOULD let the world have a say in if we go to war. We should not be waging war on people just because we want to- Saddam NEVER attacked the US, but that's who we focused on? Why?! OUR GOV'T kills more people than terrorists do, and currently! Blatantly, obviously, and without regard for those who want us to stop. I believe there is a connection between big business, our gov't, war, media... and the very least I can do is vote to try to change who's in the White House & pray the next guy can do better. I can't imagine how it could get worse.

Which leads me to the next question. Are we all pawns in God's game? Not remotely. What I said was, no matter WHO we elect, I believe God will be working for what he knows is right, and best... even if we vote for the "wrong" guy. Things will happen differently with each president, and God will USE those events/actions for His goals. God lets us do as we please, but gives us enough info for us to do what's best & will bring us the most joy, IF we choose it.

I consider myself a "Buddhist Christian". I'm surely not Baptist anymore, I have a much more optimistic outlook now than what I was raised to believe in. (I do not celebrate Buddha, but I do believe in a few of the same things Buddhists do.) And, I trust that MY greatest JOY comes with being the person I was emotionally, spiritually, and physically created to be... which means that if I have a one-on-one relation with God, since I believe He created me, and IF I move towards what I was built to be, I will be only happier & more joyful with each day that passes. (It's like trying to mow your lawn with a bicycle. Would it work? Nah- a bike isn't MADE for that. So why should I fight what I'm made for? I therefore see God in every area of life, using OUR decisions for the greatest good, EVEN if I can't see it working. I know plenty of people can't imagine having that kind of trust... that's perfectly fine. NO ONE HAS TO AGREE WITH ME. I myself don't go to church much becuase oddly- many Christians won't just "let" me believe what I do. But anyway- I'm just trying to elaborate on my old email.

And just for the fun of it- check out "The Daily Show" with Jon Stewart. He speaks pretty much as I feel when I hear the news. He's practical. He sees the flaws & lies in the news & shares them well. There's a mock debate between Pres. George Bush, and Gov. George Bush. It's really funny! They took clips from press conferences from "then" & "now"; Pres. Bush insists we bring democracy to the people of Iraq. Gov. Bush says, "I don't think we oughta go around the world & tell people how to live." Pres. Bush is sending in the troops, Gov. Bush says, "I don't think our troops should be used for nation-building."

And Sondra_wins- thanks. I feel the exact same as you... and IF Bush wins... I know God is just so much bigger than our Gov't- I'm STILL not worried. As you described Hitler being brought into power, and then taken out- I feel the same with Saddam. Maybe the miscalulations in Fla last time HAD to happen because MAYBE Gore wouldn't have gone to war- maybe some child in Iraq needs to grow up safe from Saddam's torture to be a beacon of light for the Iraquis later on... we humans just don't know. Maybe there were reasons why Bush NEEDED to be in power, as much as it pains me to say it.

My father is a "Baptist" minister-(By education, but he too is more a "Buddhist Christian" now) and he refuses to vote because he KNOWS he can't understand God's plan for government, and he WILL NOT vote against God. Sound nuts? Well- I think he's got a good point, and normally I would be right there with him IF I didn't feel so strongly about wanting a CHANCE that someone else will repair the damage caused by Bush's Administration. (I don't even completely blame Bush himself- it's those working in the shadow I don't trust.)

So. Thanks for replying in kindness & not wielding the axe of self-riteousness as I'd expected. These views are SOLELY my own. PLEASE believe as you like, accept whatever you choose that's put before you- I have NO doubt that both sides will be voting because they truly believe their candidate is the right one. How can I fault anyone for that? As far as I know- no one will vote for someone they don't trust. So- we're all doing the right thing, no matter what. My only wish is that people make informed decisions. I am not a democrat, or a republican... but I believe we need a change.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-09-2003
Hi- Me again. Just thought I'd beat folks to it-

1) So, Miss_Vee, you don't believe in separation of church & state?

Well, yes- for the politicians. For those of us who claim to be "In the church", it says we're to stay out of politics & focus on higher pursuits. Did God send countries to war? Yes- countries, but he instructs people "of the church" to LAY DOWN your sword. "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword." Simple enough. This is more proof for me that Bush is NOT "of the church" as every pres. for the last 40 years has claimed- (That simply brings voters out who wouldn't otherwise be bothered. ) Just because someone claims to be a Christian does NOT mean a thing to me if their heart isn't aiming towards God. Bush- to me- is not a Christian. And hey- isn't HE dragging the "church" into politics by claiming he's "with God"?

2) But, don't you believe in pro-life if you're so into God?

Yes, absolutely.

3) Then how can you vote for a guy who's pro-choice?

Well first of all, I think the choice comes in (90% of the time at least) in using birth control. I know a girl who's had at least four abortions so far, and I'm appalled she uses THAT as birth control. My pro-choice is to avoid getting pregnant. How many people are dying in Iraq? How many of our soldiers? I believe in pro-life for them too, but heck- there's OIL in them hills- who gives a hoot about their lives?

My sister was going to be born retarded. Cripple. Useless to society. She was born to a 43 yr old woman who has cerebral palsy, epilepsy, fits of rage, and the mentality of an 8 yr old. (She wasn't always so bad- it got much worse when she had her son 18 yrs ago). ALL her doctors said she must abort the baby. The condition she was in, the drugs she was taking... they said there was no chance this child would be alright.

My sister, now 6, (adopted, by the way) is ridiculously beautiful. This is good, because she's as stubborn as a child can get & "cute" sure helps when she wants her way! She was a preemie, so she's tiny. And she's about a year behind academically. But she's otherwise perfect, & now the light of the lives of two whole families. I don't need any more proof than her existence to know for me- abortion is not an option.

Kerry is pro-choice... I think women will do what they want, and I don't think this will make much difference. Is abortion illegal currently? Has Bush stopped abortions from happening thus far? Or is he pandering to the religious right with his rhetoric?

4) It seems your links are all pretty left-wing liberal?

Whenever I read the conservative papers, it's like reading swiss cheese. The holes in the stories just astound me. I'm reading as many voices as I can who have points that are practical. Also- whenever I hear other people in the church talk about voting for Bush because he's a "Christian" I cringe. Nuh-uh! I think it's a rare person who really REALLY has a grasp of God, and a gazillion Christians miss the boat. (Don't attack me for that comment- I'm one of them, and this is just in MY experience) I'd rather hang with the Buddhists who don't need to be "right" all the time. When I find essays, news reports & such that speak calmly & without that self-righteous axe I referred to- that's worth listening to. I've already said I don't automatically trust Kerry just because he's "not Bush".

Bush vs Kerry; The Power Elite's Dream Ballot

http://www.counterpunch.org/colby02142004.html

I think too there's a reason why most (actually ALL the Americans save one who's a "Christian" & very pro-war) I've met in my travels have been against the war in Iraq & are voting for Kerry no matter what their affiliation. Once you travel & see how people view life from other sides, it's hard to want your country to be taking over the world. I swear I want to be the best for this earth I can be- drive small cars whenever I can, build an eco-friendly house, love my neighbors & treat others with respect. I've learned SO much by traveling & seeing how others view the world- I don't mind if www.theworldvotes.com exists. Some believe no one else should have a say about our government, but heck- we insist on taking over other countries? How can they NOT care?

Enough soap-boxing... my thoughts will still stand- we're all trying to do what we honestly believe is right. I don't think our media is honest, or cares about honesty- they want money. So I seek info wherever I can, I take or leave it as it fits together or doesn't... no one can say I haven't tried. Before I began reading, reading, reading, traveling, growing- I might have voted for Bush. Now I just can't. Thanks for your time!

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-02-2004
I like what you had to say! Great thought process! I totally agree, there is a saying

Dem's fall in love with their candidate, Rep fall in line. Food for thought.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-09-2003
"Dem's fall in love with their candidate, Rep fall in line."

You know... I'd have to say that for THIS election it sure seems that way! Esp for the 2nd part. I'm not sure all the Dem's are yet in love with Kerry, but they seem to LIKE him & are hoping for the best.

Thanks for the comment!! MUCH appreciated.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2004
Thu, 09-16-2004 - 11:18am
Actually in this election it is the other way around.

The Republicans truly support Bush, while the Democrats are voting for Kerry mainly because he is not Bush.

There have been several polls done that pretty much confirm this to be true. The support of the Bush base is much stronger than the Kerry base, and Kerry has to alienate some of his base depending on which tactic to take on the war, etc.