Anti-war songs

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-05-2004
Anti-war songs
78
Sat, 09-18-2004 - 1:38am
Being a music freak I love finding out about new music. Here's some anti-war music for you to listen to. There's Beastie Boys (definite recommend), Green Day and even country legand Willie Nelson. http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/000628.html is where you can download the songs. :) XOXO.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-12-2004
Tue, 09-21-2004 - 3:29pm
So what if you told me one thing, does it make it true? Government bldgs are going to be a first target for internal and external terrorism, therefore, if one works for the government.... just never mind, you ignore they whole of my post, and nitpick over

thinkgs that are not evenmeant to be a point. Its like you skim it and say, "OH! LOOK< I can argue THAT" and get to it with no response to any of the rest of the entire post, in which the actual point of the post is made. If that's all you can do....
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-12-2004
Tue, 09-21-2004 - 3:34pm
I don't relish the idea of war. I don't relish the thought that innocent people do die in wars, all wars. I do not see our troops or the US as the terrorist<<<<

Then how can you support the war? or Bush?

I would not want to be in his shoes either, I would have immense feelings of guilt and self loathing. but then, I might have something that he doesn't.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-12-2001
Tue, 09-21-2004 - 3:36pm
Goodness, aren't we a bit touchy today.

Again, sorry I don't have time to pick apart entire posts like so many here seem to. Trust me, I could've picked apart your entire post but I've learned to pick and choose my battles. And I'm still confounded that you think "government buildings are going to be a first target" for terrorism when history has already proven otherwise. Sounds to me like a false sense of security, but whatever helps you sleep at night .....

Bev

girl in chair
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2003
Tue, 09-21-2004 - 7:46pm
I'll try to respond to your question, but please ask for clearification if you need, I can't say that I have ever tried to put this into words. Plus, I'm not very articulate and I don't have the best vocabulary, so I misuse words occassionally.

First let me say that as much as I would like to believe that all people can exist on this on this planet without conflict, I do not believe it is possible. I am not a passifist. Unlike the pastor of my church, I could not stand by and watch someone shoot a loved one b/c it would go against my beliefs to physically defend myself and potentially kill him/her to defend myself or my loved one.

At the present time, I don't pretend to understand the complexity of the war in Iraq. I don't understand the insurrgency and why they are so determined to kill US soldiers and any foreigner that supports the US forces, as well as Iraqi people that are trying to rebuild their own country and take control of their own country. I can only assume at this point in time that it is people with the same/similar agenda as Saddam as well as Al-queda and other foriegners that want to see the US fall. When the conflict started, I was in complete support of Bush. I was not alone, even Kerry (until recently) stated that he wouldn't have changed his vote on Iraq even knowing that there were not WMD's to be found. There was a bi-partisan commission that clearly absolved Bush and his administration from all the wrong doings that they have been accused of in the months prior to the war. Richard Clarks' accusations have all been refuted. Just as when Clinton chose his methods, I supported him. I did not believe the cries of scandal. I refuse to fall into the trap of partisan politics when so much is at steak. I do the same for Bush. Do I think there will be mistakes made? Of course, how can anyone do something of this magnitude and not make some errors? War is never perfect. One cannot map out a war from start to end and have it run smoothly. The first Bush's Iraq war was closer to that type of senario, but it was not a finished war. We dropped a lot of bombs, but then we left. There were cries of how unjust that was, how could we bomb these people and then not stay for the rebuild? So, here we are for the rebuild and what have we found? That there are plenty of middle easterners that simply don't want us there, they have their own agenda and plan for their country, they don't care about other countrymen that want a change, that don't want another dictatorship, that want freedoms. What I want to see is that we complete that job. We rebuild Iraq and return it to the Iraqi people. I understand that there are those that believe, or want to believe that Bush had another secret motive since well before the attack. However, no one has yet to give evidence of such, only accusation. And we all know, if one continues to accuse and claim conjecture as fact, eventually, people will believe it, especially anyone that wants to believe it.

Maybe I am too ideoligical, too naive when it comes to the US and the leaders of the US.

Maybe I am not angry enough. Maybe even though I have my personal convictions, my ideoligies, I try to consider things from someone elses point of view, even though I do not understand it, and sometimes I don't agree with it. But that difference doesn't have to be a split so deep it can't be crossed at some point in time. I think I am probably going off track here, leaving myself wide open to attack, but I will qualify this all to say that I also do not think that a President is not capable of wrong doing or scandalous behaviors, but there better be some evidence, not hearsay, not theory, not made up crap that we see today. I think to condem someone based on those things is wrong. In the end, one may be able to hop up on their soap box and say 'I was right all along' with a big "I told you so" tacked on. But what happens when character asassination fails to produce any fact? Are those people going to climb up on that box and admit their mistake? Absolutely not, and sad to say, there are some that don't really care if they were wrong, just that they raised some eyebrows, created some issues, cast doubt on an 'enemy', and may have even won some small battle, even if not a victory. I tried to answer, and please, ask for clearification if you don't understand, I can try to explain myself better.
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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-12-2004
Wed, 09-22-2004 - 12:09am
*yawn* ok either you DO have time or you DON'T. which one is it you say one thing, yet you show me another. As far as government buildings being attacked, I cant say I know of any other bldgs that have been attacked in the U.S. But maybe that is my selective memory. They attempted to do it before as well in the WTC, SO, I dont know. Maybe I just dont hear about the other bulidings that are being bombed. Kindly enlighten me or at least remind me because there is a good possibility that I have forgotten. Where else have the terrorists struck?
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-12-2004
Wed, 09-22-2004 - 12:31am
I don't need clarification when you post your ideas that is fine, and we agree on a lot of things I see. But when you say I have forgotten about 9/11, I get a bit defensive. I have not at all. That was my whole point, and though it may be ridiculuos to keep on going at this point, I do not think that striking back helps that. I do not believe in an eye for an eye. I am not as passive as your pastor either. I would have to get all over anyone who had a gun ot my loved ones too, and, maybe that is what the people of Iraq are doing. You have this language gap, American soldiers who are young men mostly, seeming very threatening. I would attack. They would not be attacking if we were not there. BUT, I digress.

I am a sucker for other peoples hardship that is why I work in the venue that I do. I am moved and fueled by humanity. I think peoples lives should always come first.

No, I do not think we could ever have peace, but America is a big enough power to influence everyone else, except maybe China. But I listed to what Europeans say about us, about the politics of this war. they do not have our ethnocentrism in the way of their info.

well, thanks for the time you put in, and I guess we can just agree to disagree or agree to disagree about whether or not we truly agree or whatever, and leave it there if you like.

I think I have exhausted my own ability to create new thoughts on this topic.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2003
Wed, 09-22-2004 - 7:31am
Sometimes it's hard to read others sarcasm on this board. I already said that I was glad that you had not forgotten 9/11, so you do not need to keep bringing that up. I corrected that. We do have many differences of opinion, that is what makes the US so great, we can have those, and discuss them, and not be forced to expouse anyone elses beliefs inorder to keep our house, our job, our families, our lives.

I'm not sure excactly what type of power you think the US has that it can influence other countries with it. I do assmume that you are not uncluding military power in your assessment as you clearly are against the use of that. The US did try to use power against Iraq through other political channels, remember the sanctions and oil for food program. We had a lot of influence there to stop other countries from ripping off the Iraq people, huh? Have you ever seen where the money for that program was going? If you hever have the time, do a search about it. I came accross a story on it the other night on Fox, they are doing and indept investigation on it. Very interesting indeed.
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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-12-2001
Wed, 09-22-2004 - 8:44am
Good grief!!! I don't know how else to say this in a way you can understand, because plain English (which I assume is your primary language) doesn't seem to be working. But I'll try again:

1. The World Trade Center was NOT a government building(s).

2. The people who worked there were NOT government employees.

Therein lies the answer to your question about which buildings besides government buildings were attacked.

Clear enough?

Bev

girl in chair
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-02-2004
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 6:30pm
I heard a beautiful song, from my mothers generation called " what's going on" by Marvin Gay, loved it, It spoke to me, funny how music can do that? Huh? You can go to Kazza.com and find the song their, and listen to it. I hope most people that have heard it will agree, it's very moving.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 8:05pm
I do know that song. Marvin Gaye was so talented, and he died so tragically. I'm only familiar with his hits, but I should really get some of his albums. Thanks for reminding me : )

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