? About Iraq from Both Sides of the Fenc

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Registered: 08-21-2004
? About Iraq from Both Sides of the Fenc
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Wed, 09-22-2004 - 4:33pm

It's not just Democrats who are questioning the President's grip on reality.



Senator Chuck Hagel (NE), a Republican, says: "The worst thing we can do is hold ourselves hostage to some grand illusion that we're winning. Right now, we are not winning. Things are getting worse." "The fact is, we're in trouble. We're in deep trouble in Iraq."


Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) also supports releasing the NIE and says: "We made serious mistakes right after the initial successes by not having enough troops there on the ground, by allowing the looting, by not securing the borders."


Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), says "he believes the situation in Iraq is going to get worse before it gets better, adding that he believes the administration has done a 'poor job of implementing and adjusting at times.'" and says "We do not need to paint a rosy scenario for the American people...."


Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN) says it's "exasperating for anybody look at this from any vantage point."


Those are Republicans talking. Here's what the generals and national security experts are saying, in a terrific recent piece in the UK's Guardian newspaper:



Retired general William Odom, former head of the National Security Agency, said: "Bush hasn't found the WMD. Al-Qaida, it's worse, he's lost on that front. That he's going to achieve a democracy there? That goal is lost, too. It's lost." He adds: "Right now, the course we're on, we're achieving Bin Laden's ends."


Retired general Joseph Hoare, the former marine commandant and head of US Central Command, : "The idea that this is going to go the way these guys planned is ludicrous. There are no good options.... The priorities are just all wrong."


Jeffrey Record, professor of strategy at the Air War College, said: "I see no ray of light on the horizon at all. The worst case has become true..."


W. Andrew Terrill, professor at the Army War College's strategic studies institute -- and the top expert on Iraq there -- said: "I don't think that you can kill the insurgency"... "The idea there are x number of insurgents, and that when they're all dead we can get out is wrong. The insurgency has shown an ability to regenerate itself because there are people willing to fill the ranks of those who are killed"... "Most Iraqis consider us occupiers, not liberators."


General Odom said: "This is far graver than Vietnam. There wasn't as much at stake strategically, though in both cases we mindlessly went ahead with the war that was not constructive for US aims. But now we're in a region far more volatile, and we're in much worse shape with our allies."... "I've never seen so bad between the office of the secretary of defence and the military. There's a significant majority believing this is a disaster."


Just as important are the opinions of those whose loved ones are serving in Iraq, like Martha Jo McCarthy, whose husband is on National Guard duty there. She says:



"Everyone supports the troops, and I know they're doing a phenomenal job over there, not only fighting but building schools and digging wells. But supporting the troops has to mean something more than putting yellow-ribbon magnets on your car and praying they come home safely."


"I read the casualty Web site every day and ask myself, 'Do I feel safer here?' No. I don't think we can win this war through arrogance. Arrogance is different from strength. Strength requires wisdom, and I think we need to change from arrogance to solid strength."


Join Senator Graham now in calling on President Bush to face the facts and level with us, by releasing the CIA's report, at:


http://www.moveon.org/tellthetruth/


President Bush has got to tell us the truth about Iraq. No weapons of mass destruction. No Saddam-al Qaeda connection. The mission is not accomplished. The transition has not been peaceful and stable. Attacks on our troops are increasing, not decreasing. These failures lie solely with the president, and he owes us an honest explanation.

Donna

"Patriotism means to stand by the Country. It does not mean to stand by the President." -- Theodore Roosevelt.

Donna

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Avatar for schifferle
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 12:08pm
http://www.hughhewitt.com/pages/archives_index.htm

From a Marine Corps Major in Baghdad:

"A thought from Iraq - "Doom & Gloom about Iraq's future....I don't see it from where I'm sitting."



The US media is abuzz today with the news of an intelligence report that is very negative about the prospects for Iraq's future. CNN's website says, " National Intelligence Estimate was sent to the White House in July with a classified warning predicting the best case for Iraq was 'tenuous stability' and the worst case was civil war." That report, along with the car bombings and kidnappings in Baghdad in the past couple days are being portrayed in the media as more proof of absolute chaos and the intransigence of the insurgency.

From where I sit, at the Operational Headquarters in Baghdad, that just isn't the case. Let's lay out some background, first about the "National Intelligence Estimate." The most glaring issue with its relevance is the fact that it was delivered to the White House in July . That means that the information that was used to derive the intelligence was gathered in the Spring - in the immediate aftermath of the April battle for Fallujah, and other events. The report doesn't cover what has happened in July or August, let alone September.

The naysayers will point to the recent battles in Najaf and draw parallels between that and what happened in Fallujah in April. They aren't even close. The bad guys did us a HUGE favor by gathering together in one place and trying to make a stand. It allowed us to focus on them and defeat them. Make no mistake, Al Sadr's troops were thoroughly smashed. The estimated enemy killed in action is huge. Before the battles, the residents of the city were afraid to walk the streets. Al Sadr's enforcers would seize people and bring them to his Islamic court where sentence was passed for religious or other violations. Long before the battles people were looking for their lost loved ones who had been taken to "court" and never seen again. Now Najafians can and do walk their streets in safety. Commerce has returned and the city is being rebuilt. Iraqi security forces and US troops are welcomed and smiled upon. That city was liberated again. It was not like Fallujah - the bad guys lost and are in hiding or dead.

You may not have even heard about the city of Samarra. Two weeks ago, that Sunni Triangle city was a "No-go" area for US troops. But guess what? The locals got sick of living in fear from the insurgents and foreign fighters that were there and let them know they weren't welcome. They stopped hosting them in their houses and the mayor of the town brokered a deal with the US commander to return Iraqi government sovereignty to the city without a fight. The people saw what was on the horizon and decided they didn't want their city looking like Fallujah in April or Najaf in August.

Boom, boom, just like that two major "hot spots" cool down in rapid succession. Does that mean that those towns are completely pacified? No. What it does mean is that we are learning how to do this the right way. The US commander in Samarra saw an opportunity and took it - probably the biggest victory of his military career and nary a shot was fired in anger. Things will still happen in those cities, and you can be sure that the bad guys really want to take them back. Those achievements, more than anything else in my opinion, account for the surge in violence in recent days - especially the violence directed at Iraqis by the insurgents. Both in Najaf and Samarra ordinary people stepped out and took sides with the Iraqi government against the insurgents, and the bad guys are hopping mad. They are trying to instill fear once again. The worst thing we could do now is pull back and let that scum back into people's homes and lives.

So, you may hear analysts and prognosticators on CNN, ABC and the like in the next few days talking about how bleak the situation is here in Iraq, but from where I sit, it's looking significantly better now than when I got here. The momentum is moving in our favor, and all Americans need to know that, so please, please, pass this on to those who care and will pass it on to others. It is very demoralizing for us here in uniform to read & hear such negativity in our press. It is fodder for our enemies to use against us and against the vast majority of Iraqis who want their new government to succeed. It causes the American public to start thinking about the acceptability of "cutting our losses" and pulling out, which would be devastating for Iraq for generations to come, and Muslim militants would claim a huge victory, causing us to have to continue to fight them elsewhere (remember, in war "Away" games are always preferable to "Home" games). Reports like that also cause Iraqis begin to fear that we will pull out before we finish the job, and thus less willing to openly support their interim government and US/Coalition activities. We are realizing significant progress here - not propaganda progress, but real strides are being made. It's terrible to see our national morale, and support for what we're doing here, jeopardized by sensationalized stories hyped by media giants whose #1 priority is advertising income followed closely by their political agenda; getting the story straight falls much further down on their priority scale, as Dan Rather and CBS News have so aptly demonstrated in the last week.

Thanks for listening. Feedback is always welcome, though I can't promise an immediate response...."


From:

Sent: Tuesday, 21 September, 2004

To:

Subject: Thank you from a Marine Mom!

Dear sir: I'm a marine mom from Helena, Montana. My son (____) is in Iraq right now. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one still supporting the mission over there after all these negative reports hit the airwaves. John Kerry just adds fuel to the negative fire! It makes me crazy to listen to him talk. He just doesn't get it! You just summed up my sentiments of this whole operation. I thank you for helping me stay strong in the continued "fight" at home to keep the troops morale high by standing by them. I absolutely agree with everything you say by what ____has written in his letters. He said that he has a huge respect for the Iraqi National Guard because they are trying so hard to make a better life for the Iraqi people. He also told me not to listen to news reports that the Iraqi people don't like them. He said even the places they've gone where most people didn't like them to begin with, they gained their respect by the time they were done there. After the people watched them standing back and getting shot at as they guarded the Iraqi's while rebuilding hospitals and schools. He said the people start to realize what the USA stands for. They are not there to be aggressive, they are there to show them how to stand up for themselves. He said there's been many times they've been shot at and they don't shoot back unless absolutely necessary just to build the trust of the people and the ING. They take orders from the ING in those situations and he said the ING is starting to feel some confidence in themselves. His quiet humor amazes me. He said "Sometimes it's a little nerve wracking hoping their aim has gotten better..... but it all seems to work out and is worth it to see the ING gaining confidence in themselves" He said it's been an amazing process. ____was sent to Najaf in August and was helping tranport troops (both marines and ING) to the Mosque in his Amphibious Assault Vehicle. The storming of the mosque was called off at the last minute, but ____said he was impressed with how hard the Americans and Iraqis worked together. He told me it was something he can't even describe and that I will never even imagine and that if we back down now the Iraqis would be totally devastated and never trust us again.

On a final note: I am always amazed at the lack of whining of you marines! The only thing ____has complained of is missing the upcoming Monday Night Football game between his beloved Dallas Cowboys and the Washington Redskins....ha! Anyway, I appreciate articles like yours! Keep em coming!

________- Helena, Montana

Proud Mom of CPL _______, Camp Lejeune

24th MEU"

~~~~~~~~~~~

And the Good, the Bad and the Ugly from an Iraqi perspective:

http://www.iraqataglance.blogspot.com/

Akreem Sabeeh

Yesterday I was in AlHurriya Olympic Swimming Pool together with my friends, while we were there, the Iraqi soccer team alternates entered the place with the goalkeepers coach Ahmed Jasim..

I met one of the players, Akram Sabeeh, the goalkeeper and talked for few minutes, then I asked some questions and told him that I'd publish his words on the internet and he's agreed, so I gladly began my questions:

A: What do you feel when you play now? I think there's a difference than those days during the ex-regime?

Akram: look, I was seriously afraid when I was playing, they were really horrible days under Uday, I was afraid to do anything that might be misunderstood and the result would be the jail.

Now, I feel free when I play soccer, I feel that I'm playing to improve myself and never afraid of anyone.

A: So you feel that you are free now?

Akram: of course free.

A: Have you ever been jailed?

Akram: Yes, for 10 days.

A: what for?

Akram: Because I shouted at the referee!

A: Isn't it a humiliating act to be jailed for this reason?

Akram: Yes, but Uday was enjoying doing so, I might be lucky to be jailed only, other players were being beaten severely, tortured and many other brutal acts, you've heard about that?

A:Yes..let's forget what was Uday doing... what about the economical status?

Akram: my salary was 20$ and now it is 200$.

A: wonderful..multiplied by 10..

Akram: Yes, I can think in my future now!

A: So what was wrong with other Olympic players, they were so upset when they were shown on the TV after each game, they kept repeating: occupation, targeting the cities..etc, they blamed on the Americans for that, what do you think?

Akram: Well..they were saying this cause they were watching what was going on in AlNajaf and previously in Fallujah, they felt that the families were being killed everyday.

A: And do you believe that?

Akram: we are watching all of that on the channels.

A: Have you ever watched some good news regarding Iraq on those channels?

Akram: Frankly...Never!

A: So those channels intentionally collect the bad news and exaggerate in most of them and play with our emotions to achieve their goal, and they've succeeded in that with some people..if they are honest they had better look at the good changes also.

Akram: Yes, you are right, we cry and get angry as we watch those channels!..........................

Unfortunately, Akram's friend called and we've finished our conversation..

Akram: Excuse me..I have to go now..nice to meet you..

A: Thank you very much Akram..

Well, I could ignore all those questions, and ask him directly showing some bored and upset facial expressions: 'DO YOU ACCEPT..what's going on in your country now? Chaos, explosions, bombing the cities...what do you think..isn't it miserable?'

!!

I could make all the conversation full of hatred and pessimistic views!

I mean, you have to hear the question of the reporter and the manner of asking the players before you judge the players' opinions..

Those journalists ask according to what they want to hear or according to what is needed from them.

The reporters should be honest and fair in dealing with the people in Iraq, it's a temporary critical period, and they have to help and support the Iraqis to stand against terrorism and build their country.

Unfortunately, there are few of them."

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-09-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 12:21pm
You can go to google and type "bush interview in ireland" where it directs you to the exact location.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 12:40pm
Good point.

I was wondering to myself before reading this about asking a question. Here would be a good place to ask it.

First of all, I had to ask myself...Why am I posting here? I am not American, I have no real business sticking my nose into American politics. The answer for me is (and always will be) Iraq (and it is an international concern, hence my interest). I thought it was a mistake from the very beginning. I was shocked and horrified by 9/11. I supported the action in Afghanistan. I supported other measures taken to try and thwart international terrorism. I admired GW Bush when he stood in the rubble at ground zero with his bullhorn when someone said, "I can't hear you," and Bush replied, "I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon."

....and well they should. However IMO, the pre-emptive war in Iraq was not the best way in which to be heard.

Now to my other question to the posters on this board:

There are a number of people (including some high profile Republicans) that have come out recently and said that the war in Iraq was a mistake, that it was improperly planned, and in a tiny capitulation (amidst all the rhetoric) by Bush himself, a "miscalculation."

Unlike some of the politicians that are making these admissions, the posters here have not.

Is there anyone here who initially supported the war, now think that it was a mistake?

By hounding on the Iraq issue, it's possible that I was hoping, not exactly to change minds but to get some sort of admission from those supporting the war that it may have been a mistake to go into Iraq.

Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 12:42pm

Thanks. That helped.

The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -
Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 12:52pm

"Is there anyone here who initially supported the war, now think that it was a mistake?"


I might be the wrong person to ask suemox.

The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-09-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 1:45pm
Granted, but then I've never known any reporter to not interrupt-they all like to talk, and often interrupt, lead the person back to the original question or pre-empt when they can see where a discussion is headed. Not saying it's polite, but it is pretty typical. In this case, you would have to have seen and heard the interview-it appeared he became irritated quickly and didn't like the nature of the questioning. But then, maybe he just doesn't like interruptions.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-28-2004
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 2:28pm
I saw the interview - and I agree with you. It was embarrassing. He should have scheduled a speech and been done with it. He was extremely rude, I've never heard anything quite like it. He didn't want to be put off track...or maybe he didn't want to be put On track lol! After seeing it I could understand why other nations would view him as belligerent and arrogant. I felt it was a shame that more of his supporters couldn't have seen him in action-he certainly didn't come off as a "man of the people."

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