Taxes Destroying Middle Class

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2001
Taxes Destroying Middle Class
52
Mon, 10-11-2004 - 2:09pm
Currently over 50% of everything my husband and I earn is paid in taxes: federal and state income, social security, property, gasoline, and sales taxes. John Kerry cannot keep all the promises he has made without raising taxes. The Democrats are determined to "kill the goose that laid the golden egg" - if Kerry wins, they will succeed! John Edwards complains about two America's, but he advocates for government that will result in two America's: the very rich like the Kerrys/Edwards/Kennedys/Hollywood movie stars who have made their fortunes and use tax loopholes to avoid taxes - and the rest of us who will be forced to depend on government programs because we do not have enough money after taxes to save for our own retirment and health plans.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-07-2004
Wed, 10-13-2004 - 1:23pm
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No, it was more like, "We have more of the people's money than we need! Let's figure out new ways to spend it!"

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Well, the data I see is this: during that time when 'Your' money was being used: America created how many Millions of Jobs?

After 3 tax cuts and a fourth on the way, where are all the jobs? Why are people just pocketing this money and not hiring?

Why do you support laws that allow people to pay less taxes for NOT WORKING than those who have to work for their money?

I'll be nice if you are. You don't have to talk down to me, I understand the THEORY well enough. I'm curious as to what voters from both sides thoughts are one why it's NOT working today.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2004
Wed, 10-13-2004 - 1:44pm


I know about it first hand, I managed a small business for years, and I know about the stat that anyone who made even $1 from a small business is classified as a small business owner. But that ignores the big picture-taxing all of those investors and owners individually leads to collectively less investment in small business, which leads to fewer jobs. It won't increase revenue by much, because there simply aren't enough people making over 200,000 per year to significantly impact the deficit, particularly when one figures in all of the new spending on Kerry's wish list.

My family doesn't make over 200,000 per year, so why should I care if those people pay more in taxes? Because it will slow down economic growth. When the unemployment rate goes down, wages rise, they rise for all of us. It's the simple law of supply and demand. The unemployment rate is shrinking-competition for workers is increasing, and rising wages will follow.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-07-2004
Wed, 10-13-2004 - 1:51pm
So why isn't it working now? When people pay less taxes for NOT working than those who have to WORK for their money, what excuse is left? Why isn't it working?

They've have had complete control, the WH, House, Senate. It's NOT working.

Now, besides The Public Works plan of Kerry's, I've seen nothing from him that blows my skirt up about his so-called jobs creation plan but you cannot say without a doubt, that his plans are going to be any more or less successful than Bush's plan.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2004
Wed, 10-13-2004 - 1:59pm


People are hiring, the unemployment rate is going down, part of the reason for smaller jobs numbers is that baby boomers are retiring and not as many folks are coming up in the workforce to take their place-hence you have a shrinking unemployment rate (the percentage of people unemployed) while the number of new jobs is not growing all that rapidly. But you're right to a certain extent-companies are holding onto their cash-they have some of the largest cash reserves in history right now. There is a lot of uncertainty in the world with Iraq and the presidential elections, according to some people I know who are paid to figure that stuff out, once things settle down we're going to see a flood of cash into the economy.

But in answer to your broader question, it's well known what happened during Bush's presidency-the economy was already in a downturn when he took office, the dot com bubble which brought with it overinflated stock prices and a huge tech job boom went bust, the corporate accounting scandals were uncovered, bringing the energy, telecom, financial and other industries to their knees, and we were atatcked on 9/11 which devastated the airline industry and brought economic growth in general to a grinding halt. I'd say given all that, the fact that we now have some of the fastest economic growth in our history and lower than average historical unemployment rates, while economies in Europe for example are struggling, I'd say Bush's economic policies have panned out quite nicely.



I don't. If you're talking about reduced taxes on dividends, you're talking about money people have already been taxed on once when it was earned, and then are taxed on again for investing it into the economy and profiting from it. I support laws that encourage investmnent into the economy, not laws that punish it, that just makes good economic sense.



Not sure what your personal comments mean, I don't think I haven't been nice or have talked down to you, but if you perceive that I have I apologize. As explained above, the theory is working, I would say working better than anyone could have hoped given the circumstances. I credit President Bush for having the courage not to use those circumstances as an excuse to increase taxes, slow down economic growth and increase federal spending unnecessarily-that would have been the wrong decision for the economy.

edited for typos


Edited 10/13/2004 2:09 pm ET ET by liveanew

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2004
Wed, 10-13-2004 - 2:00pm


I disagree.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2004
Wed, 10-13-2004 - 2:26pm
Are you saying you want to pay more taxes for government spending? In other words you want to give money to the government who will spend it on more programs which will create more programs and then we will have more taxes imposed on us. Kerry is going to raise your taxes and then we will really be in trouble. If you have no money left now how can you pay more taxes?
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-05-2004
Wed, 10-13-2004 - 2:33pm


Speaking of minimum wage isn't Kerry wanting to move it up to $7? What is Bush's plan? Just wondering.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2004
Wed, 10-13-2004 - 2:34pm
We pay off the debt by having more money in our pockets to spend which will create growth in business. Business provides jobs, more jobs more money. If you raise taxes businesses will go overseas for cheaper labor. They cannot afford to pay higher taxes so they have to cut somewhere. Big government means less money for the middle class.

As for the war debt what do you want - safety for your children or have them be killed? Of course if we are all dead we won't have to worry about anything.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2004
Wed, 10-13-2004 - 2:39pm


My guess is he's opposed to any increase in the minimum wage, as he should be. Increasing the minimum wage has the effect of artficially rising wages across the board, causing less hiring, fewer jobs, and sending more jobs overseas. Wages rise naturally when the unemployment rate goes down and competition for workers increases. Growing the economy is better way of raising wages that won't cause job losses.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2001
Wed, 10-13-2004 - 4:27pm
What we can say for sure is that cradle to grave big government won't work.

We can learn from history to prevent repeating mistakes. The USSR - poster child for a government controlled economy - was a dismal failure. The US - world leader for economic freedom - continues to thrive, providing a wonderful standard of living for its citizens.