Praise God or Godd#@n America

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-24-2008
Praise God or Godd#@n America
85
Sun, 09-14-2008 - 12:58pm

I am a republican even though I am poor and not religious. I especially would not consider voting for a democratic nominee who attended a church for 20 years whose reverend made racist remarks and said things like "Godd#@n America" I have heard enough of Wright's sermons to know that he is disgusting!! 


You mean to tell me that Obama did not know of his remarks after attending that church for about 20 years, yeah right?!! Personally I do not belive that for one second especially if this material was sold in the church lobby!


    

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-28-2003
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 11:44am

There's a big difference between being mentored by a pastor for 20 yrs. and an endorsement


You're absolutely right--there is a big difference between a 20-year relationship and an endorsement.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2008
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 1:06pm

*** I'm not trying to be sly. If you think it's something to worry about, I won't stop you, but I am not overly concerned re: either Obama or Palin believing in everything their pastors espouse.

Most people don't pick a particular church for the wafers and wine, let alone befriend the pastor and after 20 years declare, "that's not the guy I know." Yes, I am concerned about Obama's hidden ideology and the impact that may have on me and mine.

*** I'm also not concerned about the amazingly fantastic things McCain said about Parsley, before later dropping his endorsement. A moral compass, no less, re: the same guy who says Americans "get off on war" and that gay people are all dead by 45.

Well, not being an American, I don't know why you'd be concerned about our politics at all, but to your point, McCain doesn't count Parsley as a personal friend and mentor, so the association isn't the same at all.

*** There are all sorts of reasons why someone joins and remains in a church, or admires a pastor. You are more than welcome to disagree or think you know the heart and mind of those people. I don't.

Obama didn't just "admire" Wright...he was his personal mentor and close family friend, and only distanced himself when it became politically expedient to do so. But since you mentioned it, what are the "all sorts of reasons" why someone joins and remains in a church?

*** Your insults about my posts aside, I hope that you have a super day tomorrow :)

Working on it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-30-2008
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 1:26pm

<>


Were you concerned about this same "hidden ideology" when Bush was running for President?


iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2008
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 1:27pm

Obama didn’t just “tolerate” a bigoted family member who he was forced to associate with. He knew Wright was a radical before he ever met him…and sought him out anyway.

And Wright wasn’t some long-time friend of the Obama family…he was a new acquaintance to Barry AFTER they joined the church. And only AFTER Obama had attended the church, and was familiar with Wright, did he embrace him as a close friend and personal mentor.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2008
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 2:03pm

*** Were you concerned about this same "hidden ideology" when Bush was running for President?

No, there was no evidence that George Bush was a racist or anti-American.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-24-2008
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 2:08pm

~Yes, I am concerned about Obama's hidden ideology and the impact that may have on me and mine.~


That's understandable.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-30-2008
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 2:47pm

<>


So, Obama is a racist and anti-American?

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2008
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 2:53pm

~Yes, I am concerned about Obama's hidden ideology and the impact that may have on me and mine.~

*** That's understandable. My suggestion is that we respect that we have different concerns in this regard, and move on from that. We could argue about it until the cows come home, but I don't have any desire to try to change your mind anyway.

Then you might as well join a coffee klatch instead of a debate board. ; )

~Well, not being an American, I don't know why you'd be concerned about our politics at all~

*** You know that you are the most powerful country on the planet (militarily and otherwise), next door to us, with your trade, economic, and foreign policies having a huge impact on us.

Awww…you’re making us blush.

*** Your country is *fasincating.

I think so too.

*** Yet you still don't get why I'd be interested or concerned about your politics? Seriously? You'd be surprised then how frequently what's going on there is reported in our papers, for ex. (daily).

I don’t think I’d really be surprised.

~McCain doesn't count Parsley as a personal friend and mentor, so the association isn't the same at all~

*** No, instead he stood there and said all sorts of fanastically complimentary things about his "spiritual leadership" and wanted his endorsement. Do you know anything at all about Parsley? I agree that the association isn't the same.

You can criticize McCain for pandering to the religious right in an election, but that doesn’t really speak to McCain’s character the same way that Obama’s associations with racists and terrorists do.

~and only distanced himself when it became politically expedient to do so~

*** I gather that politicians there can find themselves in tricky situations sometimes re: religion and politics.

Obviously…but that doesn’t excuse Obama behavior or his associations.

*** My guess (and it is only a guess) is that Palin left her home church, a branch of the largest Pentacostal denomination on earth (Assemblies of God) - and the pastor who teaches that Alaska is very shortly about to become a refuge during the End Times, etc.. - because she was getting going in her political career. It's less "scary" for those not fundamentalist/literalist to hear "nondenominational" when voting. Look at the attention paid to her having spoken there not long ago, what/how/why she prayed, etc..

In an interview, the pastor said that he felt Palin switched because of time constraints… His sermons often go several hours …possibly associated with her new position as governor. There doesn’t appear to have been any uproar about her attendance at the Pentecostal church or her changing churches, so political expedience doesn’t appear to have been a motive.

*** The whole thing is pretty new to me. Our governance is more secular, and probably most Canadians don't even know what church our PM attends (and his wife doesn't go at all). Threats from the Pope aside, our previous PM (who is Catholic) still supported extending marriage laws to include same sex couples, as did many Catholic members of Parliament who voted in favour.

You can’t be a member of the Church and go against Church teaching without repercussions.

~But since you mentioned it, what are the "all sorts of reasons" why someone joins and remains in a church~

*** Family associations, fellowship, cultural, business reasons, etc..

Cultural and political ambition seem to be significant factors. Obama was trying to connect with this “blackness” and in order to climb the political ladder, I’ve heard that associations with Trinity Church and Rev. Wright could be very helpful. But to stay for 20 years and become close friends with the pastor, there has to be some kind of “meeting of the minds” regarding what is preached at the church…and the man who preaches it.

*** My mom is now attending a quite conservative and literalist church which is of the quite liberal denomination she's belonged to for 50 years or so. She is there, despite her disagreement with much the minister teaches, for a variety of reasons. She doesn't want to offend her friends there by driving to the next town where the denomination has a church which much better suits her theologically. She still finds solace and guidance and fellowship, and can worship there. In some ways it has enriched her spiritual life as she is challenged and has to examine her beliefs and heart more deeply and often than in the past when everything "lined up" so to speak during the decades she was in a far more liberal branch. So she stays. (And pretends to them that I'm married to a man. It works for her.)

If I gathered correctly, you’re mother has been going to the same church for 50 years, and it’s a new pastor (with a new message), that’s causing the problems. Quite a different situation with Obama who actively sought out Wright and Trinity Church knowing that they were radicals.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2008
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 2:59pm

*** Oh . . . um, hey . . . gee, I'm sorry, Doc, but the last time we hooked up wasn't really good for me;

Losing an argument is rarely a pleasant experience, but I'm sure you'll get over it. ; )

*** I mean, it was adequate and all, but you just kinda laid there while I did all the work.

You mean you were asked to actually support your arguments instead of relying on the time honored "because I say so" defense? That's pretty much SOP around here. Sorry if it put you out.

*** You see, I'm into kinkier fare: I like to pin a fact down and lash it until it has to use its safeword, and, well, your come-hither innuendos are just a little too vanilla for me.

Facts? You have facts? Bring 'em on baby! Let's "lash" those puppies!

*** Besides, all this guilt-by-religious-affiliation stuff is, like, soooo two hours ago (not to mention Constitutionally undisciplined);

Reality can be like that. LOL! No matter how hard you try, the truth keeps rearing it's ugly head.

*** I'm off to find out which dishy VP wanna-be is married to a secret secessionist! Ciao!

Let me know who it ends up being! ; )

*** PS: Is that you, Barrister? (Not like you'd tell me if you were, but no harm in asking, right? LOL)

LOL! It can get confusing sometimes, can't it?

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2008
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 3:09pm

*** So, Obama is a racist and anti-American?

When you are long-time close friends with racists and anti-American's it does tend to cast a shadow on your character as well.

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