Born Alive

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2008
Born Alive
22
Mon, 09-15-2008 - 9:34pm

http://www.bornalivetruth.org/

What do you think about this?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2008
In reply to: willitfloat
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 4:14pm
Me too!!!
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2008
In reply to: willitfloat
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 7:45pm

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To me it is but apparently not to Obama.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-03-2005
In reply to: willitfloat
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 8:19pm

It was said on another thread regarding the same topic, Obama stalled the bill mainly because it did not protect a woman's right to choose, not cause he likes seeing aborted babies left to die. Politicians do this all the time simply because they don't agree with parts of the bill.

And I'd trust fact-check before I trust Jill Stanek. I want an objective statement of the facts and Jill Stanek is NOT objective.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: willitfloat
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 8:53pm

Very long on emotional hot buttons, very short on facts.

No details whatsoever about Gianna Jessen--unless they were in the YouTube links which I cannot view, thanks to dial-up internet access. I live in New Mexico and have yet to see the ad, though it's probably no great loss. The site gave no specifics about precise wording of the bills, what Obama said, only a vague reference to "Barack Obama voted four times against affording these babies their most basic human rights." Knee jerk, by-pass the brain stuff. IF you were thinking, you'd ask more questions before clicking on that "donate" button. BTW, other iVillage members have been "disciplined" for linking to sites which solicited donations.

I was thinking earlier today about the inherent flaws in the "Thank your mother for not choosing abortion", "What if ****fill in the blank humanitarian figure***'s mother had chosen abortion", etc. The question of what life would be like if each of us individually had not been born is more existential than grounds for moralizing. And of course, it's difficult to express regrets or joy if one doesn't live at all. Goofy logic to moon over that which has not been and will not be.

But some people just KNOW that they're right, logic be damned. For them and their angst about humanity having been deprived of a great good by a woman's choice to have an abortion, I have this question. What do you think the world would have been like if Hitler's (or you can fill in the villain of your choice) mother had chosen to abort her pregnancy? There is no reason whatsoever to believe that every abortion resulted in the loss of a saint. Humanity being what it is, "sinner" is just as, if not more, likely.

Gettingahandle


Ignorance is Nature's most abundant fuel for decision making.


Facts stifle the will, hobble conviction.

Gettingahandle

Ignorance is Nature's most abundant fuel for decision making.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2008
In reply to: willitfloat
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 10:19pm

Here's info about Gianna Jessen.

Gianna Jessen's Biography

Gianna Jessen does not quit. Giving up is not an option to her. Gianna has what she refers to as the "gift" of Cerebral Palsy. She weighed a mere 2 lbs at birth and the doctors said she would never be able to hold up her head, sit up, crawl or walk. She began to walk by the age of three years old with the help of leg braces and a walker.

Gianna doesn’t believe that her Cerebral Palsy takes away her life, but, rather, enriches it. . . she walks with a slight limp today and runs marathons. On April 30, 2005 she completed her first 26.2 mile marathon after running just over 7 hours and was presented with the coveted blank blank award! On April 23, 2006 she completed the London Marathon as well. She is now determined to run marathons all over the place, because she was never supposed to even walk!

Gianna understands the plight of orphans, being one herself. She was placed into the foster care system early on in life, eventually being taken into the loving home of a woman named Penny. Penny has been a mother to 56 foster children in her life. Gianna was later adopted by Penny's daughter, making Penny Gianna's grandmother. According to Gianna, Penny saved her life.

Gianna is a Christian. Her life was given to her by the grace of God. She shouldn't be walking, but more miraculous still; she should not even be alive. Gianna's biological mother was 17 when she had a saline abortion in her third trimester. Many Americans don’t realize it is legal to have an abortion throughout all nine months of pregnancy. After being burned alive for approximately 18 hours in the womb from the saline solution, Gianna was delivered alive in a Los Angeles County abortion clinic. Her medical records state, "born during saline abortion"...this is what caused her Cerebral Palsy.

Gianna's travels and experiences have led her all over the world. Her life has been covered by many major news media outlets, including, most recently, the BBC News and World Radio, Sky News, and The Good Morning Show in England, reaching many people with a message of hope and conviction. In November 2005, Gianna spoke in several colleges all over Ireland and in December of the same year, spoke at a meeting held at the House of Commons in London. She has returned to England this year to speak in several parochial and public high schools. Gianna’s audiences include: churches - church youth crusades and women’s ministry retreats; various corporations as a motivational speaker; secular and Christian youth organizations and schools – middle school age through college, as well as several times before Congress - most recently having her testimony read before the Supreme Court in Carhart v. Gonzales

If you are interested in reading what Obama said about the bill you can read it on the website. This is not about whether abortion is right or wrong,it's about what happens to babies who are born alive after an abortion. I noticed you had no comment about that.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: willitfloat
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 11:11pm

I did not have a comment because there was nothing in either the OP or the link which gave clarity and definition to the verb "born". In some anti-choice lexicons, any removal of a fertilized egg through the vaginal canal, by artificial means, is a "birth" and "murder", regardless of gestational period.

Have been involved in raising awareness and advocating for children with disabilities, enough to have a healthy respect for their abilities as well. Cerebral palsy is a function of brain damage/abnormal development and is often an adjunct of oxygen deprivation--as was the case for Gianna Jessen. BTW, I just googled "saline abortion" and "cerebral palsy" to see how often the two occurred together, without Gianna Jessen's much-hyped story. Three pages in, not a single story without her name, probably because saline abortions aren't commonly performed anymore, though you'd never know it from all the religious right sites.

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http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/11/0080278

Although it's long, would recommend reading the full Harper's article, if for no other reason than its analysis of what is basically a very thorny moral and political issue. It won't make either pro-choice or pro-life camps feel totally vindicated.

There was nothing on the website you cited, unless it was in the YouTube links, which clarified Obama's stance or the bills' wording.

I still believe that a fully sentient, fully developed woman's rights trump those of a fetus en utero; though second and third trimester abortions make those beliefs more conditional. Not that my beliefs are superior enough to justify foisting them onto women whose lives I have not known. Are yours?

Gettingahandle


Ignorance is Nature's most abundant fuel for decision making.


Facts stifle the will, hobble conviction.

Gettingahandle

Ignorance is Nature's most abundant fuel for decision making.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-18-2006
In reply to: willitfloat
Tue, 09-16-2008 - 11:32pm
I really don't care how the bill was written.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2008
In reply to: willitfloat
Wed, 09-17-2008 - 9:50am

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Both of the bits of information you need to form an opinion on the topic being discussed is on the website if you only read it. I'm not going to read it to you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: willitfloat
Wed, 09-17-2008 - 10:16am

I don't understand the reluctance by posters to actually quote the information they think is pertinent in answering questions from others. Other times, there are challenges to "google" it. Passive aggression? Lack of substance? Intent to aggravate?

Regardless, intent to debate does not seem to be the main focus. Starting in elementary school, I learned to back statements with well-established facts and provide source information--basic stuff. Maybe that was just applicable back in pre-internet days.

And the notion that you would "read" the link to me on a board which does not feature any spoken language in the first place is absolutely ludicrous.

Gettingahandle


Ignorance is Nature's most abundant fuel for decision making.


Facts stifle the will, hobble conviction.

Gettingahandle

Ignorance is Nature's most abundant fuel for decision making.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-03-2005
In reply to: willitfloat
Wed, 09-17-2008 - 3:29pm
but Obama supported the Federal version of this bill, which Bush signed into law in 2003.