Obama crushed McCain, & where was Palin?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2008
Obama crushed McCain, & where was Palin?
10
Sat, 09-27-2008 - 10:35am

I agree with the other thread that Senator McCain lost the debate. There's more to the story. Obama trounced McCain. It wasn't even close.

The media, which is stuck in he said she said mode, misreported the debate as a draw. Foreign policy was supposed to be McCain's strong suit, yet he got crushed in this debate.

It's no surprise that our media continues not to report the obvious facts in front of their face. This is the same media which dutifully reported Bush's false claims before the Iraq war that Sadaam had WMD and ties to al Qaeda. Since then our media has failed to hold this Administration accountable for a record that rivals the very worst in American history.

This election will not even be close. And a side story to Obama's landslide victory is that it will be yet another indictment of our failed media.

Here is how McCain got crushed. There were two major issues in this debate.

1. The economy. Obama said that our economic crisis "is a final verdict on eight years of failed economic policies -- promoted by George Bush, supported by Senator McCain -- a theory that basically says that we can shred regulations and consumer protections and give more and more to the most, and somehow prosperity will trickle down . . . It hasn't worked."

Obama said Americans need change. Obama said ordinary Americans in the middle class need a break. America's middle class, not America's richest, are the ones who need a tax cut, said Obama. The middle class needs help with healthcare, he asserted.

In contrast, McCain offered no explanation why with great fanfare over the past two days he had just "suspended" and restarted his campaign over the economic crisis, or what he had achieved by doing so. Just two weeks ago McCain declared that the fundamentals of our economy are sound. McCain did not explain why this economic crisis blindsided him.

Instead of offering any realistic solutions, McCain kept railing about $18 billion dollars of tax cuts in the face of a $700 billion economic crisis and a $300 budget shortfall projected in McCain's budget. He could not defend his proposal to continue Bush's tax cuts for America's richest people and large corporations.

McCain claimed to provide a tax cut for the middle class. McCain's tax break for the middle class is a trick. McCain would take all that money and then some right back by taxing employer-provided health care. Regardless of whether that giant health care tax is directly on the employer or the worker, the middle class ultimately will bear it.

McCain's plan for healthcare is to tax employer-provided health insurance and thereby level the playing field in the market for health insurance. McCain's undue reliance on raw free market forces to fix healthcare is unwise; we are now seeing that the market can fail in times of crises.

2. Foreign policy. Obama also handily won this part of the debate by offering a broad vision for America's foreign policy. Obama reaffirmed his commitment to end the war in Iraq responsibly, focus on defeating al Qaeda and the Taliban, and to thereby restore America's standing in the world after eight years of decline.

McCain presented no vision for America's foreign policy. McCain has a narrow focus on Iraq. McCain would continue the present course of occupying Iraq at great expense to the taxpayer, while, as McCain put it a few years ago, "muddling through" in Afghanistan. McCain offered no explanation as to how America can afford the cost of the indefinite occupation coupled added to his tax cuts and now the financial bailout.

In response to McCain questioning Obama's judgment for opposing the escalations in Iraq, Obama took the focus back to the bigger story in Iraq that McCain is unable to acknowledge or address:

"And so John likes -- John, you like to pretend like the war started in 2007. You talk about the surge. The war started in 2003, and at the time when the war started, you said it was going to be quick and easy. You said we knew where the weapons of mass destruction were. You were wrong. You said that we were going to be greeted as liberators. You were wrong. You said that there was no history of violence between Shiite and Sunni. And you were wrong."

For those who missed the debate, here is the transcript: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/26/debate.mississippi.transcript/

After the debate Joe Biden, Obama's running mate, gave post debate interviews. John McCain told his running mate Palin that she could not appear in post-debate interviews. This raises serious questions about Palin's fitness to assume the job of stepping in for the President.

The concern regarding Palin's lack of readiness is heightened by McCain's 73 years of age and his multiple bouts with cancer. At least one respected conservative commentator, Kathleen Parker, has just called for Palin to step down after Palin gave a series of disastrous interviews demonstrating her unfitness to be President. http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDZiMDhjYTU1NmI5Y2MwZjg2MWNiMWMyYTUxZDkwNTE=

"Finally, Palin’s narrative is fun, inspiring and all-American in that frontier way we seem to admire. When Palin first emerged as John McCain’s running mate, I confess I was delighted. She was the antithesis and nemesis of the hirsute, Birkenstock-wearing sisterhood — a refreshing feminist of a different order who personified the modern successful working mother.

Palin didn’t make a mess cracking the glass ceiling. She simply glided through it.

It was fun while it lasted.

Palin’s recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity, and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League.

No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I’ve been pulling for Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I’ve also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted." (see above link for more)

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-18-2006
Sat, 09-27-2008 - 10:39am
Thanks for that wishful thinking post.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2008
Sat, 09-27-2008 - 10:43am

No, the wishful thinking was our media trusting this Administration and wishful thinking that Bush and McCain are willing to take accountability for the decisions they've made or offer any coherent plan for America's future.

Obama wins in a landslide. And a side story is that it's another indictment of our failed media that they continue to lend undue credence to Bush and McCain. Bush and McCain have no credibility left. Their record is terrible. They offer no workable plan for the future. The media is letting them off the hook yet again.

You will see. Republicans are going to have a long time to sit on the sidelines and think about what they've done. I am not being vindictive here. I hope they get their act together. A system where there are two viable parties, not one viable party and a failed party, works better.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2008
Sat, 09-27-2008 - 11:17am

Obama was right on Kissinger and McCain was wrong. The media once again has their heads up their butts.

"OBAMA: So let's talk about this. First of all, Ahmadinejad is not the most powerful person in Iran. So he may not be the right person to talk to. But I reserve the right, as president of the United States to meet with anybody at a time and place of my choosing if I think it's going to keep America safe.

And I'm glad that Senator McCain brought up the history, the bipartisan history of us engaging in direct diplomacy.

Senator McCain mentioned Henry Kissinger, who's one of his advisers, who, along with five recent secretaries of state, just said that we should meet with Iran -- guess what -- without precondition. This is one of your own advisers.

Now, understand what this means "without preconditions." It doesn't mean that you invite them over for tea one day. What it means is that we don't do what we've been doing, which is to say, "Until you agree to do exactly what we say, we won't have direct contacts with you."

There's a difference between preconditions and preparation. Of course we've got to do preparations, starting with low-level diplomatic talks, and it may not work, because Iran is a rogue regime.

But I will point out that I was called naive when I suggested that we need to look at exploring contacts with Iran. And you know what? President Bush recently sent a senior ambassador, Bill Burns, to participate in talks with the Europeans around the issue of nuclear weapons.

Again, it may not work, but if it doesn't work, then we have strengthened our ability to form alliances to impose the tough sanctions that Senator McCain just mentioned.

And when we haven't done it, as in North Korea -- let me just take one more example -- in North Korea, we cut off talks. They're a member of the axis of evil. We can't deal with them.

And you know what happened? They went -- they quadrupled their nuclear capacity. They tested a nuke. They tested missiles. They pulled out of the nonproliferation agreement. And they sent nuclear secrets, potentially, to countries like Syria.

When we re-engaged -- because, again, the Bush administration reversed course on this -- then we have at least made some progress, although right now, because of the problems in North Korea, we are seeing it on shaky ground.

And -- and I just -- so I just have to make this general point that the Bush administration, some of Senator McCain's own advisers all think this is important, and Senator McCain appears resistant.

He even said the other day that he would not meet potentially with the prime minister of Spain, because he -- you know, he wasn't sure whether they were aligned with us. I mean, Spain? Spain is a NATO ally."

Later:

"MCCAIN: I'm not going to set the White House visitors schedule before I'm president of the United States. I don't even have a seal yet.

Look, Dr. Kissinger did not say that he would approve of face-to- face meetings between the president of the United States and the president -- and Ahmadinejad. He did not say that.

OBAMA: Of course not."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/26/debate.mississippi.transcript/index.html

So you can see that Obama said Kissinger said we should have meetings with Iran without preconditions. Obama did not say that Kissinger said that the President of the United States should meet with Iran without preconditions. In fact, Kissinger said America should meet with Iran without preconditions at a high level including the Secretary of State. McCain either got confused or twisted Obama's assertion to mean that Kissinger said that the President should meet with Iran without preconditions. That is not what Obama said. In fact, Obama later acknowledged Kissinger did not say the President should meet with Iran without preconditions, as you can see from the quote above.

Obama is right. McCain is wrong. The media is muddled. Yet again.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2008
Sat, 09-27-2008 - 12:51pm

The NYT gave far too much credit to McCain in this debate. The NYT basically said that Obama TKO'd McCain on the economy but wouldn't call the foreign policy part of the debate the TKO for Obama that it actually was.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/opinion/27sat1.html?hp

At least the NYT got this part right:

"Mr. McCain came to the debate after one of the more ludicrous performances by a presidential candidate. With the markets teetering and Washington desperately trying to find a bipartisan solution, Mr. McCain tried to make the biggest question of the week whether he was actually going to show up for Friday’s debate.

Mr. Obama dominated the economic portion of the debate, arguing that the Wall Street disaster was the fault of the Bush administration’s anti-regulation, pro-corporate culture. He called for a major overhaul of the financial regulatory system. Mr. McCain stuck to his talking points, railing against greed and corruption. He showed little sign that he understood the fundamental failures in government illuminated by the market crisis."

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2008
Sat, 09-27-2008 - 4:19pm

Guelcher: Why Obama won
By Greg Guelcher

As conservative George Will wrote recently: “ unreadiness can be corrected … by experience. Can dismaying temperament be fixed?”

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2008/09/27/news/local/35b937eb3c773c5e862574d1001299cd.txt

"From our view, edge to Obama."

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=799817

"Klein: Obama Wins Debate On Tactics and Strategies"

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1845114,00.html

"Good night for McCain, better one for Obama"

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/09/27/good_night_for_mccain_better_one_for_obama/

The media, always behind the eight ball, is just beginning to catch up here.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-20-2007
Sat, 09-27-2008 - 5:21pm


Thanks for that wishful thinking post.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-25-2008
Sat, 09-27-2008 - 5:46pm
you are still a SAD
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2008
Sat, 09-27-2008 - 7:29pm

Yup. Here are some interesting results:

"Okay, we thought that McCain had a slight upper hand tonight (though we also said it wasn't a game changer, which is basically another way of saying that McCain didn't do what he had to). But the initial polls suggest that viewers give the nod to Obama in a big way.

Here's the CNN poll, conducted among debate-watchers:

Regardless of which candidate you happen to support, who do you think did the best job in the debate -- Barack Obama or John McCain?
Obama 51%
McCain 38%"

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/ (more at this link)

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2008
Sat, 09-27-2008 - 10:51pm

Obama 51%
McCain 38%

Well, I guess it's understandable that Republicans would rather ignore the numbers that bear out that Obama crushed McCain in this debate. In fact, none really put up much of a fight on this thread.

So, ding ding, round is almost over, verdict is almost in, Obama thrashes McCain in first Presidential debate.

Last call my conservative friends. Going once, going twice . . .

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2008
Sun, 09-28-2008 - 3:11pm
Gone. TKO for Obama.