I'm a Bitter Gun Owner and I Vote
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I'm a Bitter Gun Owner and I Vote
| Mon, 09-29-2008 - 10:33am |
How do you guys feel about Obama's ignorance about and votes against the second amendment?
| Mon, 09-29-2008 - 10:33am |
How do you guys feel about Obama's ignorance about and votes against the second amendment?
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This is absolute nonsense.
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The "Hitler" Quote That Wouldn't Die: "1935 Will Go Down In History!"
"This year* will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
---Falsely attributed to Adolf Hitler, "Abschied vom Hessenland!" , , April 15th, 1935, Page 3 Article 2, Einleitung Von Eberhard Beckmann .
This quotation, often seen without any date or citation at all, suffers from several credibility problems, the most significant of which is that the date given (*in alternate versions, the words "This year..." are replaced by "1935..." has no correlation with any legislative effort by the Nazis for gun registration, nor would there have been a need for the Nazis to pass such a law, since gun registration laws passed by the Weimar government were already in effect. The Nazi Weapons Law (or Waffengesetz) which further restricted the possession of militarily useful weapons and forbade trade in weapons without a government-issued license was passed on March 18, 1938.
The citation usually given for this quote is a jumbled mess, and has only three major clues from which to work. The first is the date, which does not correspond (even approximately) to a date on which Hitler made a public speech, and a check of the texts of Hitler's speeches does not reveal a quotation resembling this (which is easily understandable when you realize that "Hitler" is commenting on a non-existent law). The second clue is the newspaper reference, which if translated into German resembles the title of a newspaper called Berliner Tageblatt, and a check of the issue for that date reveals that the page and column references given are to the arts and culture page! No Hitler speech appears in the pages of Berliner Tageblatt on that date, or dates close to it, because there was no such speech to report.
Finally, the citation includes a proper name "Eberhard Beckmann," which is sometimes cited as "by Einleitung Von Eberhard Beckmann," which is an important clue itself, because it reveals that the citation was fabricated by someone who had so little knowledge of the German language that they were unaware that "Einleitung" isn't the fellow's first name! The only "Eberhard Beckmann" which has been uncovered thus far did indeed write introductions, but he was a journalist for a German broadcasting company after WWII, and he wrote several introductions to photography books, one of which was photos of the German state of Hesse (or Hessia), which may be the source of the curious phrase "Abschied vom Hessenland!" which appears in the citation. This quotation, however effective it may be as propaganda, is a fraud.
dablacksox
Cynic: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.---Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.
dablacksox
Cynic: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.---Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.
I've cited it already, in this thread and others.
I said he TOOK AWAY, CONFISCATED the guns of law abiding citizens. Once the law abiding citizens had no guns to protect themselves, he ordered THE PEOPLE to be seized, their synagogues and businesses burned.
Nazi Weapons Act of 1938 (Translated to English)
* Classified guns for "sporting purposes".
* All citizens who wished to purchase firearms had to register with the Nazi officials and have a background check.
* Presumed German citizens were hostile and thereby exempted Nazis from the gun control law.
* Gave Nazis unrestricted power to decide what kinds of firearms could, or could not be owned by private persons.
* The types of ammunition that were legal were subject to control by bureaucrats.
* Juveniles under 18 years could not buy firearms and ammunition.
Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons
11 November 1938
With a basis in §31 of the Weapons Law of 18 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p.265), Article III of the Law on the Reunification of Austria with Germany of 13 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 237), and §9 of the Führer and Chancellor's decree on the administration of the Sudeten-German districts of 1 October 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p 1331) are the following ordered:
§1
Jews (§5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 1333) are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.
§2
Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew's possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation.
§3
The Minister of the Interior may make exceptions to the Prohibition in §1 for Jews who are foreign nationals. He can entrust other authorities with this power.
§4
Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions of §1 will be punished with imprisonment and a fine. In especially severe cases of deliberate violations, the punishment is imprisonment in a penitentiary for up to five years.
§5
For the implementation of this regulation, the Minister of the Interior waives the necessary legal and administrative provisions.
§6
This regulation is valid in the state of Austria and in the Sudeten-German districts.
Berlin, 11 November 1938
Minister of the Interior
Frick
First of all, your quote was
and one of the first things he did was TAKE AWAY guns from the law abiding citizens.
The law you cite was passed in 1938, 5 years after Hitler took power. So this wasn't "one of the first things he did".
And second, the 1938 law:
The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." Under the new law:
Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manifacturers and dealers were required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police authority for inspection at the end of each year.
On November 11, 1938, the Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick, passed Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons. This regulation effectively deprived all Jews of the right to possess firearms or other weapons.
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When the Allies finally conquered Germany and rounded up all privately owned weapons (including fencing blades) they were floored by the number of guns in civilian hands. The American and British soldiers had been taught to associate the keeping and bearing of arms with a political system (liberal democracy) instead of a culture (the Teutonic free warrior ideal). Keep in mind that Mauser used to advertise in Party periodicals. To whom were they advertising if private citizens could not own guns?
dablacksox
Cynic: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.---Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.
Ummmm...no. There's nothing in the second amendment to postulate that "private" militias were intended. In fact, the adjective "well-regulated" pretty much negates such a theory.
Bear in mind, that at the time the Constitution was written, the Thirteen Colonies were in revolt against an empire which had a standing army. Those colonies did not. States had militias which were precursors to today's National Guard and it seems far more likely that the founding fathers meant for the militias to be called up as state defensive entities. It's your contention that the "well-regulated militia" term is "descriptive"--an opinion, not fact. Look at the rest of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They're very spare documents and "description" is visibly lacking. Moreover, there is nothing else in the Bill of Rights or Constitution which mentions arms WITHOUT the well-regulated militia clause.
You can QED until the cows come home but if the premises are dicey, so too will be conclusions based on those premises.
Moreover the "arms" have changed tremendously from the powder and ball muskets, and even earlier blunderbusses of the colonial era. Handguns and semi-automatic weapons have made the ability to carry and kill much easier, faster, and far more lethal. Would the framers of the Bill of Rights have the same attitude to ownership of such weapons outside of STATE defensive organizations? I doubt it.
Gettingahandle
Ignorance is Nature's most abundant fuel for decision making.
Facts stifle the will, hobble conviction.
Gettingahandle
Ignorance is Nature's most abundant fuel for decision making.
******sighs**** Obama has voted in favor of gun restrictions. That's a fact. His votes do not mean he's a lemming, nor do they mean that he has not thought through the very specific reasons for his decisions.
IF you have proof to the contrary, by all means, serve it forth. So far, nobody else has presented a shred of evidence. It's all been rants and rails that he doesn't see gun rights as inalienable under all circumstances.
There'd be no squawking from the right-to-carry crowd, if he'd been following in that direction. He's just not gun-rights lemming! BTW, the lemming theory has been debunked. They don't all just follow each other off cliffs. http://whyfiles.org/129sci_fable/2.html
Gettingahandle
Ignorance is Nature's most abundant fuel for decision making.
Facts stifle the will, hobble conviction.
Gettingahandle
Ignorance is Nature's most abundant fuel for decision making.
Where did I say anything at all about private militia's?
"Bear in mind, that at the time the Constitution was written, the Thirteen Colonies were in revolt against an empire which had a standing army. Those colonies did not."
Precisely.
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