Talk Back: Reactions to the VP Debate
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| Thu, 10-02-2008 - 5:14pm |
Hi everyone --
We wanted to get your reaction to the Vice Presidential debate between Senator Joe Biden and Governor Sarah Palin. Did you watch? What did you think -- and who do you consider the winner? Were there any surprises? Tell us what you considered to be the highlights, the low points and everything in between.
Please note: This discussion will be featured on our homepage as well as our Election 2008 feature page (http://www.ivillage.com/0,,dkrjhqbk,00.html) and may elicit some "Guest" responses from our "Talkback" box tool on the page. Inappropriate responses that violate our Terms of Service will be removed.
Thanks for your input!
Caryn Stein
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http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/23713.html
Sen. Biden's Errors
First, Joe Biden responds to a charge by Gov. Palin who said that Sen. Obama voted to raise taxes on people making as little as $42,000. We've been over this numerous times, and while Sen. Palin's claim is misleading (see below), Sen. Biden's response contained an error as well:
While Sen. Biden is correct to say that the vote did not raise taxes, actually, Sen. McCain did not vote on this non-binding resolution. It passed 51-44, but Sen. McCain was one of five members of the Senate who did not vote in that roll call vote. Therefore, Sen. Biden's claim that he "voted the same way" is incorrect.
A little later in the debate, Joe Biden made this statement:
Actually the 100 million figure is not families. It is not households. It is tax returns. But that's a somewhat minor issue in the whole scheme of things. The 100 million figure is incorrect because Sen. McCain, even relative to a current policy with AMT patch baseline, does cut corporate income taxes and provides his refundable health care tax credit, which would reduce that "100 million won't get a tax break" figure. That 100 million figure is technically correct if you look only at the individual income tax and ignore Sen. McCain's health care tax plan, and if you do it relative to a current policy baseline with AMT patch. Furthermore, Sen. Biden makes the same error as Barack Obama in mixing baselines. The 95 percent figure (when properly used) gives Obama credit for an AMT patch whereas he does not give McCain credit for an AMT patch tax cut when referring to the 100 million figure.
But the 95 percent figure is just plain wrong as well. According to Tax Policy Center, no income quintile (including those earning under $150,000) would even see 95 percent of its tax units receiving a tax break under Pres. Obama's tax plan in 2009. Even in 2012 under Obama's tax plan relative to current law, an average of the fraction of tax units that receive a tax cut in the bottom four quintiles is less than 90 percent. In other words, Biden's statement is factually incorrect. The 95 percent figure is fairly accurate when Obama uses it to talk about the fraction of working families that would receive a tax cut under his plan, but not the entire population nor the entire population earning under $150,000.
Regarding Sen. Biden's claim that no American making less than $250,000 per year would see a tax hike, that is incorrect too. Some Americans making less than $250,000 would see a tax increase under Pres. Obama. For example, in 2009, Tax Policy Center estimates that 14.8 percent of tax units earning between $111,645 and $160,972 would actually see a tax increase in 2009 under Pres. Obama's proposed tax plan, relative to current law. Now it is true that 83.3 percent of the tax units in that group would see a tax cut, but to say that "no one making less than $250,000 under Barack Obama's plan will see one single penny of their tax raised" is factually incorrect.
Sticking with the distributional theme, Biden then attacked Sen. McCain's tax plan, saying:
Since people pay all taxes, even the middle class would receive some tax relief under a corporate tax cut. While a corporate tax cut does disproportionately benefit high-income taxpayers (especially under the assumption that it is borne by owners of capital), some in the middle class would still receive a tax cut. It is not "virtually nothing."
Biden went further on the issue of corporate taxes, pulling out this popular Obama line:
This statement is highly misleading. It is unclear what Sen. Biden even means by "separate, no additional bill, all by itself?" He appears to be implying that Sen. McCain wants an Exxon Mobil Tax Cut bill. But that's not the whole story. What Sen. McCain is proposing is cutting the federal corporate income tax, which is paid by all profitable corporations. It doesn't matter if that corporation is Exxon Mobil or Coca-Cola.
Sen. Biden also talked about small businesses:
One itti, bitty problem with appealing to Joe six pack; he prefers his woman in the kitchen, rather than in the white house.
Actually I think "6-pack joe" stays home and does nothing and the mrs does everything in the house.
A CBS poll of undecided voters found that Biden crushed Palin in this debate. Biden won more than two undecideds for every undecided Palin won: 46% to 21% (33% said it was a tie).
"Forty-six percent of these uncommitted viewers said Biden won the debate Thursday night, while 21 percent said Palin won. Thirty-three percent thought it was a tie.
Even a quarter of Republican uncommitted voters thought Biden won the debate."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/03/politics/2008debates/main4497138.shtml?source=mostpop_story
Still, the debate in and of itself did not change many people's minds about who to vote for.
I don't see anything wrong in what you call "folksy" speak.
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