and you STILL WANT TO VOTE FOR OBAMA?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-10-2008
and you STILL WANT TO VOTE FOR OBAMA?
396
Thu, 10-16-2008 - 11:23pm

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-03-2008
Sat, 10-18-2008 - 4:47pm
Also your conservative opinions. Which we will have to agree to disagree.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-14-2008
Sat, 10-18-2008 - 4:48pm

>>> OK, lets talk about the fiasco of Iraq! First of all, Religion is the main reason that the radical Muslims fight for.

I disagree, as evidence by the Christians who live among Muslims every day unharmed and unmolested, but to a greater point...I couldn't care less what motivates a terrorist. We can solve our ideological differences by killing them.

>>> The powers that be who wanted this war and to "get Saddam" were sure we'd be greeted as Liberators, they were WRONG.

We were greeted as liberators...but in the power vacuum that followed, some fought for power, some for old grievances and our continued presence to try to stabilize the country went from liberation to occupation. Oops.

>>> they thought it would take 6 weeks,6 months, Wrong again!

The actual war was quite expeditious...unfortunately, I think the administration believed that the Iraq people would pull together much faster than they actually did. Again...oops.

>>> they said the oil from Iraq alone would pay for the war. Where's the OIL?

Hmmm...that's precisely the question I asked when left-wing-wackos kept saying that this was a "war for oil," or when liberal loons kept saying "Iraqi oil belongs to the Iraqis." Funny how things change, isn't it? At any rate, once the region is secured and the oil rights negotiated, Iraqi oil revenues may actually pay reparations to the US. Let's see how it works out.

>>> Then we have Bush saying we need to become less dependent on Foreign oil. Now it's we need to be free of foreign oil!

That's been the slogan for some years now...it's frightening that the Democrats still oppose off-shore drilling that could help make America more energy independent.

>>> So, you tell me, were all the deaths of our brave Americans and all that have been maimed permanently from Bush's fiasco was it worth it? I think NOT!

You mean the Iraq war that was supported by Republicans AND Democrats? Yes.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-14-2008
Sat, 10-18-2008 - 4:52pm
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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-03-2008
Sat, 10-18-2008 - 4:54pm
Any oil from more off shore drilling will take 10 yrs before it's reality, this Drill Baby Drill is a bit of a joke. Face it, the conservatives have their way of thinking and we have ours. I'm sure there are areas we could agree on, but they are few and far between. I certainly don't believe in this "trickle down effect" I think that's a big joke.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-14-2008
Sat, 10-18-2008 - 5:17pm

>>> And what was the point of the war in Iraq? Because that seems to have been a very fluid thing in the early days. WMD? Spreading democracy? Terrorism? What was the real purpose?

Let me help you out. Here's excerpts from a speech by Bush prior to the war, Feb 26, 2003...note the "points" he delineates...

In Iraq, a dictator is building and hiding weapons that could enable him to dominate the Middle East and intimidate the civilized world -- and we will not allow it.

We hope that the Iraqi regime will meet the demands of the United Nations and disarm, fully and peacefully. If it does not, we are prepared to disarm Iraq by force. Either way, this danger will be removed.

The current Iraqi regime has shown the power of tyranny to spread discord and violence in the Middle East. A liberated Iraq can show the power of freedom to transform that vital region, by bringing hope and progress into the lives of millions. America's interests in security, and America's belief in liberty, both lead in the same direction: to a free and peaceful Iraq.

The first to benefit from a free Iraq would be the Iraqi people, themselves. Today they live in scarcity and fear, under a dictator who has brought them nothing but war, and misery, and torture. Their lives and their freedom matter little to Saddam Hussein -- but Iraqi lives and freedom matter greatly to us.

Bringing stability and unity to a free Iraq will not be easy. Yet that is no excuse to leave the Iraqi regime's torture chambers and poison labs in operation. Any future the Iraqi people choose for themselves will be better than the nightmare world that Saddam Hussein has chosen for them.

We will also lead in carrying out the urgent and dangerous work of destroying chemical and biological weapons. We will provide security against those who try to spread chaos, or settle scores, or threaten the territorial integrity of Iraq. We will seek to protect Iraq's natural resources from sabotage by a dying regime, and ensure those resources are used for the benefit of the owners -- the Iraqi people.

The world has a clear interest in the spread of democratic values, because stable and free nations do not breed the ideologies of murder. They encourage the peaceful pursuit of a better life. And there are hopeful signs of a desire for freedom in the Middle East.

Success in Iraq could also begin a new stage for Middle Eastern peace, and set in motion progress towards a truly democratic Palestinian state. The passing of Saddam Hussein's regime will deprive terrorist networks of a wealthy patron that pays for terrorist training, and offers rewards to families of suicide bombers. And other regimes will be given a clear warning that support for terror will not be tolerated.

In confronting Iraq, the United States is also showing our commitment to effective international institutions. We are a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council. We helped to create the Security Council. We believe in the Security Council -- so much that we want its words to have meaning.

We go forward with confidence, because we trust in the power of human freedom to change lives and nations. By the resolve and purpose of America, and of our friends and allies, we will make this an age of progress and liberty. Free people will set the course of history, and free people will keep the peace of the world.
http://www.themoderntribune.com/george_bush_speech_february_26,_2003_plans_for_iraq_and_iraq_war.htm

>>> And when will it end? Any inkling on this? When we have 'victory'? How do you define victory?

It's pretty easy...when Iraq is secure, stable and strong enough to defend itself and it's government against terrorists and outside anti-American/anti-Iraq influences.

>>> Who gets to define victory?

We do...obviously. Unless Obama, God forbid, gets elected when he'll bow and scrape our way to defeat.

>>> We have not found WMD because apparently there were none.

That's certainly one of two possibilities, but irrelevant because the US cannot base it's national security on hindsight.

>>> Since the person we waged war against is now dead and Iraq has had a 'democratic election' one could argue we have won. Since there is now a government in place one could argue we have won.

Yes, if one had a simplistic view of reality, one could make that argument.

>>> When they are happy with our presence? If that is your definition we will be there forever.

For a realistic perspective, I'd suggest that you google "enduring bases."

>>> If the government of Iraq wants us out we just become an 'invading force' if we stay

I wouldn't call our troops in Japan, Germany, S. Vietnam, etc "invading forces."

>>> - so when will you consider we have 'won'?

When we've won.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-12-2008
Sat, 10-18-2008 - 5:21pm
your post reminds me of someone I had previously blocked - you wouldn't be that person of 1000 names by any chance would you?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-14-2008
Sat, 10-18-2008 - 5:29pm
Aah...the oft repeated liberal reply that means "I can't support by arguments, and confronting reality would be too upsetting to me and my ideology, so I'd better run now." LOL!
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2008
Sat, 10-18-2008 - 5:32pm

Now more than ever.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-03-2008
Sat, 10-18-2008 - 5:33pm
I've been down this block many times with the same MO of the same poster, So, nope, I'm tired of it.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-09-2008
Sat, 10-18-2008 - 5:38pm

You'll have to forgive me for being so inquisitive, I just can't seem to understand your reasoning. It's the "tone" of the campaign? I'm not sure what you mean, since both sides have run negative ads.


I know you've been a republican for 40 years or so. Wow, you beat me out. But I'm wondering, all those years and you won't vote for McCain because of the tone? There have been other campaigns that have been at least as nasty, why does it bother you now?


And I know Obama is intelligent and thoughtful, but there have been many candidates that fit that description. There's got to be something much more specific than tone that would make you take such a quantum leap and vote for someone so totally against your beliefs.


I'm sorry for asking again, but I just don't understand yet.

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