Responsible bail out

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-13-2008
Responsible bail out
272
Wed, 11-19-2008 - 9:05pm

I am for the bail out. I've supported the overall idea since it was first proposed. What is distressing is how we are apparently totally bungling the power granted to this administration.


My bad. I should have known they could not even get this right.


On the way home tonight, NPR's Marketplace ran a story on how executives are being paid bonuses, and that companies are paying dividends - out of this funding. Few are doing anything remotely close to lending.


Barney Frank was right to be outraged at the lack of assistance for homeowners, and the continued reluctance of the administration to assist homeowners.


And today comes word of deflation, a huge, huge red flag that screams the 'd' word. Folks, we are on the cusp of 1930, and our leaders, given latitude they did not have in 1930, are f'ing it up.


I am no expert on this, but the way they explained this tonight, deflation can spiral downward, last occuring way back in the 1930s.


There is 450 billion left. How do we use this intelligently? First thing that has to happen is mandate no bonuses and no dividends to any company receiving funds. Mandate they must lend, and we will gurantee mortgages they renegotiate to better terms for the homeowner, allowing them to stay, with a certain acceptable parameters. Set quotas on how many mortgages they must underwrite a day, how many auto loans, etc. Publicise acceptability criteria, so people know before going in whether they qualify.


If there are one too many automakers in Detroit, don't close one, set it to a different task - any ideas out there on how we could divert them to something that helps us face other issues? America has to build things again... what can we get them to build? Financing isn't the problem, the money will be there - any ideas?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2008
Tue, 11-25-2008 - 7:34am

">>> Good insult. Keep using.

I will...but your consternation sounds more than a bit hypocritical considering it's a derivation of the acronym YOU frequently use. LOL!"

_____I am not using the term fops anymore. Look at the thread entitled "Apology." I have stopped using it because it could be interpreted as an insult to gay people.

">>> And I'll keep asking, if the Democrats were dopes, what does that make the Republicans who were supposed to be in charge for the past 8 years? Using your logic . . . geniuses!

Were you thinking that "dopes" (Democrat officials and politicians everywhere) was a reference to the relative intelligence of the noble Democrats? Why, whatever gave you that idea? I'm sure that it's meant with every single bit as much respect as your oft used "fops.""

_____You missed the meaning of fops. I readily acknowledge that it was intended as an insult to Fox-Republican officials and politicians. Unlike your term which insults all Democrats including those on this board, fops was not aimed at ordinary people, or anyone on this board.

">>> PS Can you please talk some more about how people are right when they compare Obama to Hitler?

Why don't you examine the political rise of both Hitler and Obama and then share with us how completely unalike they are and put any future comparisons to rest?"

______I'll put this as gently as I can friend, to avoid any risk of a TOS violation. That you keep comparing President-elect Obama to Hitler speaks to your credibility. Just because you don't see it doesn't make it not so.

So feel free to keep on using a term which insults half the people on this board and comparing President-elect Obama to Hitler. It is quite revealing.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-19-2008
Tue, 11-25-2008 - 1:39pm

>>> _____I am not using the term fops anymore. Look at the thread entitled "Apology." I have stopped using it because it could be interpreted as an insult to gay people.

And?

>>> _____You missed the meaning of fops. I readily acknowledge that it was intended as an insult to Fox-Republican officials and politicians. Unlike your term which insults all Democrats including those on this board, fops was not aimed at ordinary people, or anyone on this board.

You missed the meaning of "dopes"...it has EXACTLY the same connotation as "fops." It is not aimed at ordinary people, or anyone on this board...unless, of course, we have a lot of "Democrat officials and politicians" posting on the board.

>>> ______I'll put this as gently as I can friend, to avoid any risk of a TOS violation. That you keep comparing President-elect Obama to Hitler speaks to your credibility. Just because you don't see it doesn't make it not so.

And just because you say it doesn't make it so. Personally, I don't care if I have any "credibility" as far as you're concerned, the facts remain the facts...and there are similarities between Obama's rise to power and his socialist programs and that of Hitler. Make of it what you will or deny it if you must.

>>> So feel free to keep on using a term which insults half the people on this board and comparing President-elect Obama to Hitler. It is quite revealing.

Well, first of all, I haven't compared Obama to Hitler, I only acknowledge that there are similarities as presented by others. And since you've been using "fops" for quite a long while now, and by your own admission, only to insult people, and also that you only stopped (or changed acronyms) for some bizarre political correctness...I think it says a lot more about you than it does me.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-22-2008
Thu, 11-27-2008 - 12:42am

"Yes, they do get a bonus(profit sharing check) when a profit is earned."


Actually $3,600 of the $5,00 is gauranteed bonus they get regardless of employee performance or company profits.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-22-2008
Thu, 11-27-2008 - 12:52am

"What exactly are you denying you said?"


Playing the odds here but, pretty much anything you've claimed I've said is something I've not said.


"You claimed the workers were not worth what they are paid, yet the company willingly paid them. "


I suppose you're right in the same sense as if someone pointed a gun at your head and told you to speed and you sped.


" You are making a judgment on their business based on current circumstance, not past circumstance."


Oh no, what I've said I've said for a long time and what I've said is an accurate discription of the situation for a long time as well.


iVillage Member
Registered: 06-20-2005
Thu, 11-27-2008 - 5:22am

Again, I have quoted your words "unskilled", these ARE NOT my words.


""DRAFTED?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-13-2008
Thu, 11-27-2008 - 11:03am

Playing the odds here but, pretty much anything you've claimed I've said is something I've not said.


I suppose you're right in the same sense as if someone pointed a gun at your head and told you to speed and you sped.


Yeah, ok. Amazing that poor, helpless management is forced into negotiations. Wow. Funny


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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-22-2008
Thu, 11-27-2008 - 12:04pm

"Again, I have quoted your words "unskilled", these ARE NOT my words."


Ummm ok, still your statement doesn't follow.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-22-2008
Thu, 11-27-2008 - 1:04pm

"Yeah, ok. Amazing that poor, helpless management is forced into negotiations. Wow. Funny

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-20-2005
Thu, 11-27-2008 - 1:15pm

Well, since there isn't a classification for Unskilled workers, I am misunderstanding you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-13-2008
Thu, 11-27-2008 - 1:59pm

I am not going to dance through segment by segment of posts, I've done enough of that.


Management and unions come to the table roughly equal in power, though you refuse to see this, and refuse to see the good that comes from this process.


Unions can and do make mistakes or worse, and my own union does things with which I do not agree. In our case, we cannot legally strike, specifically barred from striking, but there are other provisions that are designed to counter this loss - the expiring contract stays frozen in time, and both sides have incentive to go forward with negotiations on a new contract.


Economic conditions change, and when you call out provisions as bad, what you should really aim at is the fact that change occurs - the contract isn't bad in and of itself, it was negotiated for the immediate conditions of that time.


Now it is obvious the terms have to change, and the union recognises this - they have made significant concessions. It isn't just the unions, we have to take health care off the backs of employers and find a way to deliver care to everyone. This would prove a huge boon to American exporters, but the right always starts screaming about government involvement. Government need not be directly involved, or only tangentially involved. Competitive private insurance can still be a part of a universal health care system, with regulation governning the parameters of coverage.


These are wild economic times, very unusual, and contract provisions from two years ago cannot be called out as bad for that time - they are bad for now, not then.


And yes, history is on my side. Take a course in the history of industrial relations in this nation. Without unions, this nation would be a shell of what it currently is.

Full length fiction: http://llhaesa.org/ (pronounced la.hay.ess.sa)



Full length fiction: worlds undone

"You have no power over my body..." ~ Anne Hutchinson

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