Save the OBAMA Drama-and Complaints, too
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Save the OBAMA Drama-and Complaints, too
| Wed, 11-19-2008 - 10:47pm |
Save The Obama Drama
By Paul Devlin | TheRoot.com
Stop with the ridiculous expectations already;


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((Sadam Hussein was never a threat to the US.
>>So did Bush. Personally, I think we should do away with the electoral college. We have the technology to elect by popular vote.<<
It would possibly encourage more people to actually vote.
>>I appreciate your honesty.<<
Well, thank you.
>>6 points...if the blacks had voted as usual instead of for race, we'd be waiting on President McCain.<<
I had this same discussion with my father yesterday. As there is no way to really prove what percentage voted based solely on race I chose not to really debate this one with my dad. Motivation behind their votes isn't really an issue anymore as he's already been elected.
>>It's not surprising that a person who doesn't like Palin would find similar responses in the people they surround themselves with. The facts, however, present a different conclusion.<<
Point taken, but you'd be surprised to know that I actually generally disagree with many of the people I'm closest to on politics. Some of my closest friends are fundamentalist Christians and they are all for Palin, but many of my more moderate friends were not too pleased with her.
>>What was it that "turned you off?' Her record of bipartisanship? Her record as a reformer? Her expertise on energy? Her 86% approval rating among her constituents? Or was it the fact that she has values and standards that turned you off?<<
I just made another post about that. My overall point was that I'm still not convinced she would do much in bridging the gaps between the two parties which are very divided right now. One thing that I didn't mention in my other post was that I wasn't crazy about the comment she made that she wouldn't even consider abortion for her own daughter if she was raped. I'm against using abortion as birth control as I feel that is irresponsible, but in the case of rape, incest or danger to the health of the mother I feel that there should be a little more choice. I also am not a fan of the death penalty which I believe she said she would sign into law if the legislature passed it. It actually costs more money to execute somebody than it does to take care of them for the rest of their lives. And although we have made great advances in DNA testing there are still innocent people that have spent 20+ years in jail for a crime they didn't commit. That stays with them forever and makes it harder for them to get jobs, etc.
((My first turnoff with Palin was her stance on abstinence only education. Especially when it is proven to be ineffective. Telling kids not to have sex is just not a viable solution as many of them are going to do it anyway.))
Yes, but telling them about birth control, and STD's doesn't seem to be helping either.
>>I agree. But I don't think Palin was saying anything about how people chose to raise their children. Just what should be taught in the schools.<<
But schooling is part of how people raise their children and not everybody shares the same values on this. I'm with you that I really don't know what a great solution for the problems with teen pregnancy and STD rates are, but I don't think abstinence only education is it. Presenting kids with all the facts honestly isn't going to solve all the problems but I think knowledge is power on this one.
>>Yes I can understand that. But that clearly shows that the education children are currently getting on STD's, and Teen pregnancy is working either. The solution? More parental involvement.<<
Another sad fact that I've learned in my public school teaching is that some parents really just don't care. That's why I have kids talk to me about things that they can't go to their parents about. Many of them are being raised by grandparents that are older and less involved. I'm not teaching in regular public schools right now, but I still see a little of it even working with supplemental education. Most of my students are great, normal children but many of them are angry and bitter and don't have true parental involvement in their lives. I also think there is a fine line between what should be taken care of at home and what public schools should be allowed to do in certain areas. This is an issue where there is definitely gray area.
>>Yes. I do not remember what it is called. But she has come sort of classification due to the close proximity to Russia. She wasn't very well versed on Foreign Policy. But neither is Obama. That is why he picked Biden. I don't think so. I think the media portrayed her to be stupid. She isn't. Other countries have already called Obama weak and immature. So, I wasn't banking on Palin being the President. Just the VP. I don't think McCain will die anytime soon.<<
This is part of the reason I went with McCain anyway. Although I don't really trust Palin as president, I didn't think McCain was in jeopardy of dying any time soon and refused to cave to ageism and the "we're one heart attack away from Palin being president" stuff. Partly too, I wasn't swayed enough by Obama to even put in a protest vote in his favor in my red state. I really don't take a lot of stock in what I hear/see/read in the media and I generally try to go to a variety of sources. I have several friends that are journalists (one has worked in Washington DC) and they'll sometimes help me wade through sources! hehe
>>> So you've got nothing. Your claim that Obama lied and sold us "a bill of goods" was wrong. Bush is in office and is responsible for where we are now.
Actually, I'm afraid that it's you who has nothing...but empty promises made by an empty suit. BTW, it's the Dems who are responsible for "where we are now."
<>
>>> And you realize that was about the most ridiculous "stimulus package" in the history of mankind? People are still laughing at Bush's solution ~ but you're touting it as wise??
Hate to burst your bubble, but it wasn't a "stimulus package" it was encouraging words from a leader in times of trouble...and only lib fringe-dwellers who thought "hope and change" was reason enough to vote for a socialist neophyte for President are laughing.
>>> Again, everyone pretty much agrees that 9/11 would not have happened had Bush cared enough to listen to the CIA's August 6th PDB and, as Condoleeza Rice testified, all similar info handed Bush since he entered office.
Only if "everyone" is pretty much stupid...but I'll play along...what would YOU have done if YOU had received that specific information? Details please...
>>> Clinton was not in office on 9/11. He'd been out for 1.5 years.
True...and the "Bin Laden problem" should have been ancient history when Bush took office. Alas, Clinton blew it...8 times.
>>> Unlike Bush, Clinton tried to get bin Laden and even handed Bush the CIA's plans to find bin Laden and punish him for the USS Cole.
Did he really? Kind of makes you wonder why Clinton didn't make use of those plans himself...oh, that's right, he kind of ignored the whole terrorism issue...preoccupied with getting impeached I think.
And I could equally say that, of course you are entitled to your opinion, but the fact remains that 64% of the Republican base, energized or not, is not enough to put Palin in the White House.
>>6 points...if the blacks had voted as usual instead of for race, we'd be waiting on President McCain.<<
>>> I had this same discussion with my father yesterday. As there is no way to really prove what percentage voted based solely on race I chose not to really debate this one with my dad. Motivation behind their votes isn't really an issue anymore as he's already been elected.
Motivations are important to know"why" he was elected. It also tends to make more sense of the votes considering his inexperience. But the whole "race" factor went well beyond blacks...there were a lot of whites, as well as blacks, who were looking to make this election "historic."
>>What was it that "turned you off?' Her record of bipartisanship? Her record as a reformer? Her expertise on energy? Her 86% approval rating among her constituents? Or was it the fact that she has values and standards that turned you off?<<
>>> I just made another post about that. My overall point was that I'm still not convinced she would do much in bridging the gaps between the two parties which are very divided right now.
Both McCain and Palin have a record of bipartisanship, reform and even going against their own party when they thought it was the right thing to do. Obama, on the other hand, is the Congress' most liberal Senator (no mean feat when you consider he's only served around 150 days), has NO record of bipartisanship and has voted along party lines 97% of the time. I'm not sure what kind of "convincing" you require, but the comparisons are very telling.
>>> One thing that I didn't mention in my other post was that I wasn't crazy about the comment she made that she wouldn't even consider abortion for her own daughter if she was raped. I'm against using abortion as birth control as I feel that is irresponsible, but in the case of rape, incest or danger to the health of the mother I feel that there should be a little more choice.
There's a big difference between "rape" and "the health of the mother." Using "rape" to justify abortion is just trading one excuse (convenience) for another (rape)...both are simply reasons the mother doesn't want the child. Palin believes in the sanctity of human life, so using rape to justify abortion would be hypocritical...and hypocritical she is not.
>>> I also am not a fan of the death penalty which I believe she said she would sign into law if the legislature passed it. It actually costs more money to execute somebody than it does to take care of them for the rest of their lives.
I've heard that before and it's a ridiculous proposition, probably invented by the anti-death penalty crowd. The minute you kill someone...with about $2 worth of chemicals...they stop being a financial burden on the system...unlike letting them live for another 20 or 30 years at taxpayers expense. Personally, I don't have any problem with the death penalty as long as it's "guilty beyond ANY doubt."
>>> And although we have made great advances in DNA testing there are still innocent people that have spent 20+ years in jail for a crime they didn't commit. That stays with them forever and makes it harder for them to get jobs, etc.
Solution?
>>> My first turnoff with Palin was her stance on abstinence only education. Especially when it is proven to be ineffective. Telling kids not to have sex is just not a viable solution as many of them are going to do it anyway.
Actually, abstinence is the only thing that works 100%...but unfortunately it requires community support and the teaching of values beyond "me, me, me," things in short supply these days when schools teach kids about sex, then hand out condoms and say..."uh...but please don't use them."
>>> I also find her naive in the way of foreign policy. Compared to the other candidates she showed a complete lack of knowledge in the realm of foreign policy and as a leader of the country that is terrifying. Now I will not go and pretend to be a scholar in foreign policy but I'm supposed to believe she's one up on the rest of us because she lives closer to Russia?
Why would a governor of Alaska, or any governor, have extensive knowledge of foreign policy? Where did Obama get his expertise on foreign policy?...living in Jakarta at age 10? He has zero...in fact, he's got so little experience that his VP and his Secretary of State BOTH called him inexperienced AND he's gotten EVERY foreign policy issue wrong in the past several years. Palin, on the other hand, has energy expertise...which is extremely valuable...and executive experience...which, again, is pertinent to the Presidency. Obama...has none.
>>> I don't disagree with her on all things but did have my opinion that her being added as McCain's running mate was a weak attempt at swaying female voters. Which also felt a little insulting.
Or it could be that McCain chose one of the few eligible candidates that has truly conservative values, executive experience and has a reputation for bipartisanship and being a "maverick." Obviously the choice has resonated with a large number of conservatives.
>>> *shrug* Whether or not she is intelligent, she doesn't come off as being so. I think other countries would take her as a joke if she were to become president. Most of America already takes her as one.
As opposed to Biden...the human gaffe machine...who has also been on the wrong side of every foreign policy issue in the last decade? Palin was thrust onto the world stage with 24 hours notice, while all of the other have had years to prepare. It's hardly fair to judge her on two "gotcha" interviews and then give a pass to Stuttering Barry who sounds like an imbecile when he's off-prompter or Biden who sounds stupid so often that the press barely mentions it any more. I don't think I've ever seen the level of media bias and attacks that were thrown at Palin...it was simply disgusting. But what I can say, is that everyone who's met her (that's appeared on a news program) has said they were impressed with her intelligence, how engaged she was, and how genuine she was.
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