The Tortured Party

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2008
The Tortured Party
472
Fri, 12-12-2008 - 11:15pm

Now that he's got nothing to lose by dropping the pandering, McCain issued a joint report just that found that Rumsfeld was right in the middle of authorizing the torture:

"Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld Approves Aggressive Techniques (U)
(U) With respect to GTMO’s October 11, 2002 request to use aggressive interrogation
techniques, Mr. Haynes said that “there was a sense by the DoD Leadership that this decision
was taking too long” and that Secretary Rumsfeld told his senior advisors “I need a
recommendation.” On November 27, 2002, the Secretary got one. Notwithstanding the serious
legal concerns raised by the military services, Mr. Haynes sent a one page memo to the
Secretary, recommending that he approve all but three of the eighteen techniques in the GTMO
request. Techniques such as stress positions, removal of clothing, use of phobias (such as fear of
dogs), and deprivation of light and auditory stimuli were all recommended for approval.
(U) Mr. Haynes’s memo indicated that he had discussed the issue with Deputy Secretary
of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Doug Feith, and General
Myers and that he believed they concurred in his recommendation. When asked what he relied
on to make his recommendation that the aggressive techniques be approved, the only written
legal opinion Mr. Haynes cited was Lieutenant Colonel Beaver’s legal analysis, which senior
military lawyers had considered “legally insufficient” and “woefully inadequate,” and which
LTC Beaver herself had expected would be supplemented with a review by persons with greater
experience than her own.
(U) On December 2, 2002, Secretary Rumsfeld signed Mr. Haynes’s recommendation,
adding a handwritten note that referred to limits proposed in the memo on the use of stress
positions: “I stand for 8-10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to 4 hours?”
(U) SERE school techniques are designed to simulate abusive tactics used by our
enemies. There are fundamental differences between a SERE school exercise and a real world
interrogation. At SERE school, students are subject to an extensive medical and psychological
pre-screening prior to being subjected to physical and psychological pressures. The schools
impose strict limits on the frequency, duration, and/or intensity of certain techniques.
Psychologists are present throughout SERE training to intervene should the need arise and to
help students cope with associated stress. And SERE school is voluntary; students are even
given a special phrase they can use to immediately stop the techniques from being used against
them.
(U) Neither those differences, nor the serious legal concerns that had been registered,
stopped the Secretary of Defense from approving the use of the aggressive techniques against
detainees. Moreover, Secretary Rumsfeld authorized the techniques without apparently
providing any written guidance as to how they should be administered. "

http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2008/Detainees.121108.pdf

What a surprise! There will be a lot more on this. If we don't hold those who broke the law accountable, the rampant rate of lawbreaking in the Republican Party will not slow down in the slightest. It will also be a good message to Democrats not to make the same mistakes.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2008
Sat, 12-27-2008 - 11:57am
thanks - I didn't see that referendum on the ballot,
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2008
Sat, 12-27-2008 - 11:58am
What does that have to do with whether or not we extract information from these animals in any way necessary? Are you trying to confuse the issue?
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-20-2008
Sat, 12-27-2008 - 12:02pm

Who determines whether a person is an "animal" or not; and based on what? Thus far the process is so flawed as to be criminal--innocents have been tortured and killed.

When you get down in the muck with those you claim to be above, there is no credibility or moral high ground. And that which has been done, cannot be undone.

"So what" works not at all as either logic or integrity.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 12-27-2008 - 12:04pm
That has nothing to do with it. A US citizen may not torture anyone, soldier or not. You are getting the treaties confused.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2008
Sat, 12-27-2008 - 12:05pm
Why oh why can't liberals stop name-calling and think about the seriousness of the issue? Most conservatives consider the murder of 3000 innocent people to be sickening and really evil. They consider cutting off the heads of innocent people and video taping it really sickening and evil. They consider doing anything necessary to keep these sickening and evil things from happening to our people the right thing to do. It seems like liberals would rather see them kill us any way they choose while we do nothing to stop it. That seems really sickening and evil to me.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2008
Sat, 12-27-2008 - 12:05pm

Would this guy be considered a terrorist by our right winged friends?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 12-27-2008 - 12:08pm

No, you are mistaken. The federal law cited was written as a result of the US ratifying the UN treaty on torture. That treaty specifically prohibits suspending the laws to enforce the treaty because of extraordinary circumstances, like war for example.

The law in question has not been rewritten or rescinded. It is on the books right now.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2008
Sat, 12-27-2008 - 12:09pm

Is there nothing sickening and evil regarding the thousands of Iraqi women, children and old men who perished from our "smart" bombs - shock and awe???

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2008
Sat, 12-27-2008 - 12:13pm
Violent, murderous behavior determines whether or not they are considered to be animals or not. If they act like animals, they are animals. Savage animals. Innocents have been tortured and killed, but not by us - BY THESE MURDEROUS SAVAGE ANIMALS. We have not tortured any innocents, and the blood of ALL the innocents who have died during this war is on the hands of the bloodthirsty, savage terrorists.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2008
Sat, 12-27-2008 - 12:17pm
You don't think the babies killed by our bombs in Iraq were innocent?

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