The Tortured Party

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2008
The Tortured Party
472
Fri, 12-12-2008 - 11:15pm

Now that he's got nothing to lose by dropping the pandering, McCain issued a joint report just that found that Rumsfeld was right in the middle of authorizing the torture:

"Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld Approves Aggressive Techniques (U)
(U) With respect to GTMO’s October 11, 2002 request to use aggressive interrogation
techniques, Mr. Haynes said that “there was a sense by the DoD Leadership that this decision
was taking too long” and that Secretary Rumsfeld told his senior advisors “I need a
recommendation.” On November 27, 2002, the Secretary got one. Notwithstanding the serious
legal concerns raised by the military services, Mr. Haynes sent a one page memo to the
Secretary, recommending that he approve all but three of the eighteen techniques in the GTMO
request. Techniques such as stress positions, removal of clothing, use of phobias (such as fear of
dogs), and deprivation of light and auditory stimuli were all recommended for approval.
(U) Mr. Haynes’s memo indicated that he had discussed the issue with Deputy Secretary
of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Doug Feith, and General
Myers and that he believed they concurred in his recommendation. When asked what he relied
on to make his recommendation that the aggressive techniques be approved, the only written
legal opinion Mr. Haynes cited was Lieutenant Colonel Beaver’s legal analysis, which senior
military lawyers had considered “legally insufficient” and “woefully inadequate,” and which
LTC Beaver herself had expected would be supplemented with a review by persons with greater
experience than her own.
(U) On December 2, 2002, Secretary Rumsfeld signed Mr. Haynes’s recommendation,
adding a handwritten note that referred to limits proposed in the memo on the use of stress
positions: “I stand for 8-10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to 4 hours?”
(U) SERE school techniques are designed to simulate abusive tactics used by our
enemies. There are fundamental differences between a SERE school exercise and a real world
interrogation. At SERE school, students are subject to an extensive medical and psychological
pre-screening prior to being subjected to physical and psychological pressures. The schools
impose strict limits on the frequency, duration, and/or intensity of certain techniques.
Psychologists are present throughout SERE training to intervene should the need arise and to
help students cope with associated stress. And SERE school is voluntary; students are even
given a special phrase they can use to immediately stop the techniques from being used against
them.
(U) Neither those differences, nor the serious legal concerns that had been registered,
stopped the Secretary of Defense from approving the use of the aggressive techniques against
detainees. Moreover, Secretary Rumsfeld authorized the techniques without apparently
providing any written guidance as to how they should be administered. "

http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2008/Detainees.121108.pdf

What a surprise! There will be a lot more on this. If we don't hold those who broke the law accountable, the rampant rate of lawbreaking in the Republican Party will not slow down in the slightest. It will also be a good message to Democrats not to make the same mistakes.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-19-2008
Sun, 12-28-2008 - 5:42am
The left always seems to ignorantly pull Jesus out of their hat when confounded by issues of morality and are unable to formulate a reasonable argument...as if they actually cared what Jesus said or even believed in him.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-19-2008
Sun, 12-28-2008 - 5:43am
Wouldn't that be MPTY?
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-19-2008
Sun, 12-28-2008 - 5:44am
Right...talking...I wonder why no one thought of that before? Why didn't we try that with Hitler? Imagine all of the lives we could have saved...except the Jews, of course. And the problem with Iraq is that we just didn't ask Saddam nicely enough to allow those pesky UN inspections! Who knew?! And now that we know the secret, I'm sure it'll be a quick solve to get Iran to abandon those nuclear ambitions and to get Israel and the Palestinians to have a kumbaya-fest. Let's get Bin Laden on the phone right away and get to talkin'! I feel world peace comin' on!


Edited 12/28/2008 5:52 am ET by durendal
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 12-28-2008 - 5:48am

"They're trying to kill us, not win some ideological or moral battle."

Not really. If we all converted that would be cool too. There is no imperative that they kill us necessarily. The terror attacks were supposed to dissuade us from backing Israel and have infidel troops in the holy land (Saudi). Now this approach strikes most reasonable people as quite deranged one might hope. Still, the objective is not to kill us all. In any event, from Osama's POV, it is very much a moral battle.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-19-2008
Sun, 12-28-2008 - 6:07am

>>> Not really. If we all converted that would be cool too.

I'm sure that idea would be a winner. LOL!

>>> There is no imperative that they kill us necessarily. The terror attacks were supposed to dissuade us from backing Israel and have infidel troops in the holy land (Saudi).

Aah...so if we only let them destroy Israel and closed our borders we'd be ok? Hmmm...since they specifically targeted the World Trade Center instead of military bases in the holy land, I'm not sure I'm really buying that theory.

>>> Now this approach strikes most reasonable people as quite deranged one might hope. Still, the objective is not to kill us all. In any event, from Osama's POV, it is very much a moral battle.

I say, why quibble...just kill them. Problem solved.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 12-28-2008 - 7:53am
Bin Laden's statements on the matter are quite clear and coherent. They are also easily available. Some people consider it important to understand their enemies and also consider it impractical to kill large numbers of people.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2008
Sun, 12-28-2008 - 8:21am

As for making people embrace democracy...I've seen many posts here by libs lamenting the plight of Iraqi women...why? If it's fine that people "don't embrace democracy" then why the tears for the women? Who cares, right?


Actually, never said it was fine if people "don't embrace democracy," but if that's not what they want, I guess it is.

"

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2008
Sun, 12-28-2008 - 8:34am

>>> Why has our present government decided that they want to emulate the actions of terrorists, dictators and despots over the world?


GIve us a call when the government starts hacking off the heads of prisoners.





That's about all we haven't done, as far as we know,

"

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-2008
Sun, 12-28-2008 - 10:04am
EXCUSE ME! Just what makes you think the left doesn't believe in Jesus? I believe in Jesus, I believe in God, I don't believe in Republicans!
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-30-2008
Sun, 12-28-2008 - 11:12am

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According to our Administration, they are our friend.

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