The Tortured Party
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| Fri, 12-12-2008 - 11:15pm |
Now that he's got nothing to lose by dropping the pandering, McCain issued a joint report just that found that Rumsfeld was right in the middle of authorizing the torture:
"Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld Approves Aggressive Techniques (U)
(U) With respect to GTMO’s October 11, 2002 request to use aggressive interrogation
techniques, Mr. Haynes said that “there was a sense by the DoD Leadership that this decision
was taking too long” and that Secretary Rumsfeld told his senior advisors “I need a
recommendation.” On November 27, 2002, the Secretary got one. Notwithstanding the serious
legal concerns raised by the military services, Mr. Haynes sent a one page memo to the
Secretary, recommending that he approve all but three of the eighteen techniques in the GTMO
request. Techniques such as stress positions, removal of clothing, use of phobias (such as fear of
dogs), and deprivation of light and auditory stimuli were all recommended for approval.
(U) Mr. Haynes’s memo indicated that he had discussed the issue with Deputy Secretary
of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Doug Feith, and General
Myers and that he believed they concurred in his recommendation. When asked what he relied
on to make his recommendation that the aggressive techniques be approved, the only written
legal opinion Mr. Haynes cited was Lieutenant Colonel Beaver’s legal analysis, which senior
military lawyers had considered “legally insufficient” and “woefully inadequate,” and which
LTC Beaver herself had expected would be supplemented with a review by persons with greater
experience than her own.
(U) On December 2, 2002, Secretary Rumsfeld signed Mr. Haynes’s recommendation,
adding a handwritten note that referred to limits proposed in the memo on the use of stress
positions: “I stand for 8-10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to 4 hours?”
(U) SERE school techniques are designed to simulate abusive tactics used by our
enemies. There are fundamental differences between a SERE school exercise and a real world
interrogation. At SERE school, students are subject to an extensive medical and psychological
pre-screening prior to being subjected to physical and psychological pressures. The schools
impose strict limits on the frequency, duration, and/or intensity of certain techniques.
Psychologists are present throughout SERE training to intervene should the need arise and to
help students cope with associated stress. And SERE school is voluntary; students are even
given a special phrase they can use to immediately stop the techniques from being used against
them.
(U) Neither those differences, nor the serious legal concerns that had been registered,
stopped the Secretary of Defense from approving the use of the aggressive techniques against
detainees. Moreover, Secretary Rumsfeld authorized the techniques without apparently
providing any written guidance as to how they should be administered. "
http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2008/Detainees.121108.pdf
What a surprise! There will be a lot more on this. If we don't hold those who broke the law accountable, the rampant rate of lawbreaking in the Republican Party will not slow down in the slightest. It will also be a good message to Democrats not to make the same mistakes.

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Kate
ITA and ditto and all that :)
Kate
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Kate
>>> The cold war was "won" because communism practiced by the USSR could not sustain itself. It was more like winning by default.
Aah…so it was merely a coincidence, and had nothing to do with the US pressuring the USSR to “keep up with the Joneses” by bankrupting themselves with military spending? Ok.
>>> As far as the Revolutionary War, sure we had ideals like our "own" personal freedom, but it wasn't waged because of ideologues - quite a few more things going on there.
So “taxation without representation” wasn’t really a factor? Imagine the shock in the eyes of so many schoolchildren?
>>> Yep, not hawkish enough before entering WWII, probably because we were still coming out of that depression brought about by the help of Hoover and his cohorts. But that was a "just" war. We were attacked by a foreign power and war was declared against us.
We jumped in after that…it’s the hesitation before we joined the war that you seemed to be questioning…and it’s somewhat understandable considering the costs of WWI. And even though it was a “just war” simply because of Hitler’s aggression, the atrocities of the holocaust weren’t known until near the end of the war. Still, it’s difficult to understand why you would be so hawkish about WWII and attack the US so vigorously because we were pulled into Vietnam and Korea and Iraq. It seems to me, somewhat hypocritical and historically convenient.
>>> Didn't hear about Korea, Vietnam or Iraq ever doing such a thing, i.e. attacking us, but communism was the ideologues' itch for Korea and VN,
Well, you say “itch,” I say “trying to preserve democracy and prevent the spread of communism.” Crazy us…I’m sure you would have advocated the subjugation of the South Koreans by the Communists rather than join the UN in supporting democracy and the freedom of the south.
>>> and I don't know what the itch was for Iraq; but scratching that itch is going to cost us plenty in all kinds of ways.
The “itch” was national security. And it will gain us democratic allies in the Middle East, greater regional stability and a check on terrorism…unless the left is successful in securing defeat.
>>> Let's hope your "opinion" on how well the Iraqis are embracing democracy now and how they'll work in that framework after we're gone will pan out.
Given a taste of freedom, most people are reluctant to give it up. We just have to stay there long enough…despite the best wishes of the left…to ensure that our “seeds” have taken “strong root.”
>>> I guess the ideologues' wars are due at least one win. Korea - lost. Vietnam - lost.
Korea – stalemate. Vietnam – another stalemate.
>>> Who knows, this could be a win. Let's hope so.
It’s looking good…but with a liberal at the helm, things could go very wrong, very quickly.
>>> One out of three is not so very bad. It's kind of like your former assertions over the last year or so. WMDs in Iraq - no, no WMDs found. The economy is doing well - no, don't think so. And now you predict democracy will be the order of the day in Iraq. Maybe you'll get a one out of three also.
I didn’t claim there were WMDs in Iraq…Clinton did. And when McCain made his comment about the fundamentals of the economy being strong…they were. The Democrat’s subprime scheme hadn’t yet crashed the economy.
>>> Read the thread on global warming and your opinions on that. Really, really hope your opinion pans out on THAT one.
It’s a liberal farce…or at very least a natural trend that looks like it’s reversing without harm.
>>> But in any event, our government, democrats and republicans, is going to aggressively work on that because they believe it is being "helped along" by men, and so does the majority of the rest of the free world. So, all evidence by people who actually are trained to know about climate issues aside, I hope you are proven correct.
Actually no…the government is getting hyped because the dopey people are hyped and driven by their irrational fear and inability to examine the facts instead of the lies and predictions by “climatologists” who are examining tainted or manipulated evidence to arrive at their political analysis. LOL!
>>> On Iraq and global warming, I'd like your rate of accuracy to be 2 out of 4. 50/50 would not be bad, and it would be better than the win rate of the wars waged by the ideologues.
Or the “defeats” suffered by the US due to the ideology and cowardice of the left.
>>> It's amazing, what one can learn from reading a newspaper! Wal Mart just had to pay out several millions dollars, after losing yet another law suit. They were found liable for, once again, locking their employees in the store and not paying them overtime.They were not allowed to leave. It has nothing to do with being from the left! I have major concerns about anyone so callous, as to think it's ok to lock workers in. It is illegal to not pay overtime. It's the law. It is not a left-right issue.
Weeeellllllll...to be fair, it's not illegal to pay overtime, if these workers were even entitled. WalMart has also stated that there were always managers present with keys, and that the doors were locked to...SHOCKER!...prevent theft. Sounds pretty reasonable if you ask me. As for not being allowed to leave...how would they know? They were scheduled to work the night shift...and presumably the doors were open in the morning to allow them to leave and the next shift to come in. Personally, I wouldn't know if my employer locked the doors when I am at work...mostly because I'm working instead of trying to escape. Sounds like muchadoaboutnothing...especially since the workers should be in the country in the first place. Ship them all back home.
>>> BTW: In regards to your post accusing me of not providing links, you and I both know that isn't true.
So sorry...I was practically inundated by the veritable landslide of links provided in every one of your posts.
>>> I presume you posted that in hopes some people would have missed the links I posted TO you. LOL, all they or you has to do is, go back to the emails where I posted the links...plural = more than one, even!! I posted them once, I'll not post them again. You didn't read them the first time!! Guess you would have to find something else to rant about, as only you can do. :-)
Actually, I think the reason you won't repost them is because you can't find them...they're certainly not contained in any of your posts in this protracted discussion. Maybe those illegal immigrants stole them once the doors were opened. LOL!
The USSR bit off more than they could chew by their empire building of communism by trying to make all their empire communist, even if many of these countries they incorporated into the the USSR
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