The Health Channel - is that the Discovery Health Channel or TLC ? I have digital cable in the bedroom at home and I WANT to say I've seen something called the health channel..and sometinmes I watch this morning Yoga program called 'Breathe' if I am working a midnite shift. The instructor is hilarious in an oddly subtle way, and everyone is always color cooriinated..I sweat just watching it..
I think defining an obese person as 'helpless' IS doing them an injustice, but I can relate to the helpless FEELING that alot of them have. And I am probably a bit off for thinking the government really wants us to stay fat, but there are SO many factors and little things that contribute to who we are as a country AND as a society.
And yes, obesity can contribute to so many diseases, but as a disease itself, it really lacks the etiology of something like cancer, but it's link with diabetes is almost hand in hand...My bf got diabetes (type 1) last year at the age of 22, and he wasn't an ounce overweight, so who knows.
I kind of think of this as a 'fat trap' (I swear there is a book called this, too!) and for those of us stuck in the cycle (like the whole 'What De-rails You?' post from dear Rely) feel so inundated with hopelessness, rejection, and may suffer from self esteem so bad that it is crippling in it's effects. So I think it would be closer to a mental disease than a physical one, even though the first thing you notice about that person is their size, not what is going on in their head. (Hope I'm not being super-confusing).
When I gained my weight, it was after I moved away from home (no mom around to 'watch' me and speak up before I committed a boo boo)and going out to eat with friends, workplace food, trying to fit it, being unsure of myself...food made me feel better and let me connect with people I didn't feel I could connect with otherwise. But, once I decided that the fear of being single for the rest of my life and the thought of a man seeing me naked was the catalyst I needed to put me in a full blown weight loss panic. I blew off alot of weight very quickly and the results kept me going. It took me time to chjange my habits, and I don't know how everyone gets screwed up with food in their own way - I just know how I did it in mine.
But, if the government can pay for cancer treatments and programs to stop smoking (after all, we aren't born with a need to smoke. We ARE born with a need to eat)which they themselves PROMOTE for God's sake, then they should have a hand in responsibility for promoting bad foods, convenience and such and it's contribution to our society's ever-growing waistline. One hundred years ago, there was not this problem. Seeing a 450 pound person was a rarity - also, 100 years ago a 450 pound person would probably not live too long, as there were no drugs available for the myriad of problems that that level of obesity can cause.
Not sure who else is reading this, but can anyone relate to fat being 'protective' like a security blanket? Hiding in it ? Feeling invisible and having a love/hate relationship with that feeling?
Forte, I know I have vehementy disagreed with you in the past, but I do not disagree with you on this (for the most part) and I'm pretty sure we all got 'here' in pretty much the same manner. All I can ask of anyone here is to realize that some change comes slowly, and it comes easier for others, but to not give up, because we owe it to ourselves to be healthy. You yourself would'nt be here if it weren't for something that you did (skipping those meals and fast food substituting), but you know better now. I am glad you and others here are on the right track, and some of us have our ups and downs, but at least we are all enroute to the same place.
Holy COW this was a long one ! Sorry if anyone fell asleep !
Amy , My weight has always been a protective cover for me. That's one of the biggest fears I have with losing the weight is that I will no longer have it to hid behind. It's a good excuse to not do things or not have things. When things go wrong I can always blame it on the fat. If I am thin who will get blamed then? Me?
"but the point I'm making is that there's no evidence to support our government's contention (in changing Medicare rules) that obesity is a disease. In fact, it's not a disease but it is the result of human behaviors."
Not to be cliched, but here's how Merriam-Webster defines disease: "a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning." For a condition to be a disease, it need not be communicable, random, or genetic; it just has to be a condition that impairs normal function in the body.
"And the fact that it's been redefined may, also, do more harm to those suffering from obesity."
How? By finding ways to help people prevent diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, cancer, and any other condition that is created or complicated by obesity?
"There are lots of researchers who write about obesity, besides the one you offer."
And when you find ones that agree with you--that obesity can be controlled through nothing more than simple willpower, and that anyone can easily lose weight if he or she really wanted to--by all means, post their findings instead of making vague reference to their findings. The overwhelming evidence regarding obesity points to a far more complex disease that is not easily treated, regardless of what you WANT to believe.
"And it looks like the best minds in the country, on that subject, all come to the same conclusion...as top research has for years and years: obesity is caused by consuming more calories than the body uses for fuel."
You keep saying this, and yet NO ONE has argued with you about it. If you want to always be right in your posts, you could also say, "The sun rises in the east," and "the sky is blue."
"The way to 'cure' obesity is to not eat more calories than the body needs for fuel, and to exercise."
Again, no one is arguing with you that eating fewer calories than your body needs is the only way to lose weight. And no one has said that obesity doesn't implicate behavioral patterns. The point is that in treating obesity, one MUST address more than the mathematical calculation of calories in vs. calories out. It's important to know why people overeat, what they can do to control their eating, etc. Again, you wouldn't tell an alcoholic to just stop drinking, or a heroin addict to just stop shooting up. You address the underlying causes of their behavior AS WELL AS the physical side effects of the disease.
Some of us--myself included--are lucky enough to lose weight easily and not suffer from food issues. But for God's sake, have a little sympathy for those who struggle with their weight loss and resent your unsupported assertion that obesity can be cured by willpower alone, or that it's not a medical condition unto itself.
"not like AIDS . . . a disease over which the sick person has no personal control."
Let's see . . . a disease that is, in the Western Hemisphere at least, spread primarily through unprotected sexual contact or IV drug use, and you're saying that "the sick person has no personal control" over his disease?
>>Let's see . . . a disease that is, in the Western Hemisphere at least, spread primarily through unprotected sexual contact or IV drug use, and you're saying that "the sick person has no personal control" over his disease? LOL<<
I can't believe you wrote that! In 2004!!!!!!I'm almost speechless.....almost....BUT...
...and blood transfusions (remember Ryan White? or surgeries pre-1985, or when woman might receive blood during delivery), or when children contract AIDS in the womb, or rape victims, or EMS workers who contract AIDS while saving lives. Or when a wife contracts AIDS from her husband who picked up a prostitute, and she didn't know....or how about, if a bride or groom gets AIDS from their new spouse on the wedding night, too early for the sick partner to know of his/her disease (there is an incubation period).
You know, it's VERY offensive for you to imply that an AIDS patient "has control" over whether or not s/he has AIDS. And it's untrue, to boot!
And it's not the issue here, has nothing to do with whether or not AIDS qualifies for Medicare.
The issue has to do with funding, under current law and Medicare guidelines. Whether **obesity** fits the guidelines for funding as a **disease** (under current definitions of the word disease, both medical and legal as those apply to Medicare). And obesity is not a disease. Both AIDS and schitzophrenia are "diseases" which qualify, under Medicare guidelines.
Obesity, however, is not a disease which can qualify for Medicare. That's the issue.
I'm sorry...it was the Discovery Health Channel. Twice a day (according to Discovery Health) there are programs having to do with "success stories" too, and I caught about 10 minutes of the one at 3 pm yesterday (I think the times are 10 am, and 3pm, but I'm not sure, since I only heard about this while I was half asleep the other day at 2:30am when I flicked on the TV and watched Discovery Health for the first time).
Here's an interesting article from Seattle's paper on this topic. It also makes the point, if Medicare covers obesity (and the "effective treatment" would be surgery) then "Can people 65 and older withstand the stress of stomach-reduction surgery? Just how obese must a person be to qualify for coverage?" There are so many twists and turns to this.
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I think defining an obese person as 'helpless' IS doing them an injustice, but I can relate to the helpless FEELING that alot of them have. And I am probably a bit off for thinking the government really wants us to stay fat, but there are SO many factors and little things that contribute to who we are as a country AND as a society.
And yes, obesity can contribute to so many diseases, but as a disease itself, it really lacks the etiology of something like cancer, but it's link with diabetes is almost hand in hand...My bf got diabetes (type 1) last year at the age of 22, and he wasn't an ounce overweight, so who knows.
I kind of think of this as a 'fat trap' (I swear there is a book called this, too!) and for those of us stuck in the cycle (like the whole 'What De-rails You?' post from dear Rely) feel so inundated with hopelessness, rejection, and may suffer from self esteem so bad that it is crippling in it's effects. So I think it would be closer to a mental disease than a physical one, even though the first thing you notice about that person is their size, not what is going on in their head. (Hope I'm not being super-confusing).
When I gained my weight, it was after I moved away from home (no mom around to 'watch' me and speak up before I committed a boo boo)and going out to eat with friends, workplace food, trying to fit it, being unsure of myself...food made me feel better and let me connect with people I didn't feel I could connect with otherwise. But, once I decided that the fear of being single for the rest of my life and the thought of a man seeing me naked was the catalyst I needed to put me in a full blown weight loss panic. I blew off alot of weight very quickly and the results kept me going. It took me time to chjange my habits, and I don't know how everyone gets screwed up with food in their own way - I just know how I did it in mine.
But, if the government can pay for cancer treatments and programs to stop smoking (after all, we aren't born with a need to smoke. We ARE born with a need to eat)which they themselves PROMOTE for God's sake, then they should have a hand in responsibility for promoting bad foods, convenience and such and it's contribution to our society's ever-growing waistline. One hundred years ago, there was not this problem. Seeing a 450 pound person was a rarity - also, 100 years ago a 450 pound person would probably not live too long, as there were no drugs available for the myriad of problems that that level of obesity can cause.
Not sure who else is reading this, but can anyone relate to fat being 'protective' like a security blanket? Hiding in it ? Feeling invisible and having a love/hate relationship with that feeling?
Forte, I know I have vehementy disagreed with you in the past, but I do not disagree with you on this (for the most part) and I'm pretty sure we all got 'here' in pretty much the same manner. All I can ask of anyone here is to realize that some change comes slowly, and it comes easier for others, but to not give up, because we owe it to ourselves to be healthy. You yourself would'nt be here if it weren't for something that you did (skipping those meals and fast food substituting), but you know better now. I am glad you and others here are on the right track, and some of us have our ups and downs, but at least we are all enroute to the same place.
Holy COW this was a long one ! Sorry if anyone fell asleep !
Amy
Hugs, Brenda
Hugs, Brenda
Brenda, your not the first person I have heard that from.
Not to be cliched, but here's how Merriam-Webster defines disease: "a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning." For a condition to be a disease, it need not be communicable, random, or genetic; it just has to be a condition that impairs normal function in the body.
"And the fact that it's been redefined may, also, do more harm to those suffering from obesity."
How? By finding ways to help people prevent diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, cancer, and any other condition that is created or complicated by obesity?
"There are lots of researchers who write about obesity, besides the one you offer."
And when you find ones that agree with you--that obesity can be controlled through nothing more than simple willpower, and that anyone can easily lose weight if he or she really wanted to--by all means, post their findings instead of making vague reference to their findings. The overwhelming evidence regarding obesity points to a far more complex disease that is not easily treated, regardless of what you WANT to believe.
"And it looks like the best minds in the country, on that subject, all come to the same conclusion...as top research has for years and years: obesity is caused by consuming more calories than the body uses for fuel."
You keep saying this, and yet NO ONE has argued with you about it. If you want to always be right in your posts, you could also say, "The sun rises in the east," and "the sky is blue."
"The way to 'cure' obesity is to not eat more calories than the body needs for fuel, and to exercise."
Again, no one is arguing with you that eating fewer calories than your body needs is the only way to lose weight. And no one has said that obesity doesn't implicate behavioral patterns. The point is that in treating obesity, one MUST address more than the mathematical calculation of calories in vs. calories out. It's important to know why people overeat, what they can do to control their eating, etc. Again, you wouldn't tell an alcoholic to just stop drinking, or a heroin addict to just stop shooting up. You address the underlying causes of their behavior AS WELL AS the physical side effects of the disease.
Some of us--myself included--are lucky enough to lose weight easily and not suffer from food issues. But for God's sake, have a little sympathy for those who struggle with their weight loss and resent your unsupported assertion that obesity can be cured by willpower alone, or that it's not a medical condition unto itself.
Let's see . . . a disease that is, in the Western Hemisphere at least, spread primarily through unprotected sexual contact or IV drug use, and you're saying that "the sick person has no personal control" over his disease?
LOL.
You said,
>>Let's see . . . a disease that is, in the Western Hemisphere at least, spread primarily through unprotected sexual contact or IV drug use, and you're saying that "the sick person has no personal control" over his disease? LOL<<
I can't believe you wrote that! In 2004!!!!!!I'm almost speechless.....almost....BUT...
...and blood transfusions (remember Ryan White? or surgeries pre-1985, or when woman might receive blood during delivery), or when children contract AIDS in the womb, or rape victims, or EMS workers who contract AIDS while saving lives. Or when a wife contracts AIDS from her husband who picked up a prostitute, and she didn't know....or how about, if a bride or groom gets AIDS from their new spouse on the wedding night, too early for the sick partner to know of his/her disease (there is an incubation period).
You know, it's VERY offensive for you to imply that an AIDS patient "has control" over whether or not s/he has AIDS. And it's untrue, to boot!
And it's not the issue here, has nothing to do with whether or not AIDS qualifies for Medicare.
The issue has to do with funding, under current law and Medicare guidelines. Whether **obesity** fits the guidelines for funding as a **disease** (under current definitions of the word disease, both medical and legal as those apply to Medicare). And obesity is not a disease. Both AIDS and schitzophrenia are "diseases" which qualify, under Medicare guidelines.
Obesity, however, is not a disease which can qualify for Medicare. That's the issue.
The **ONLY** issue.
forte
Edited 7/23/2004 12:10 pm ET ET by forte10
That's a very good point!
forte
I'm sorry...it was the Discovery Health Channel. Twice a day (according to Discovery Health) there are programs having to do with "success stories" too, and I caught about 10 minutes of the one at 3 pm yesterday (I think the times are 10 am, and 3pm, but I'm not sure, since I only heard about this while I was half asleep the other day at 2:30am when I flicked on the TV and watched Discovery Health for the first time).
Here's an interesting article from Seattle's paper on this topic. It also makes the point, if Medicare covers obesity (and the "effective treatment" would be surgery) then "Can people 65 and older withstand the stress of stomach-reduction surgery? Just how obese must a person be to qualify for coverage?" There are so many twists and turns to this.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apscience_story.asp?category=1500&slug=FIT%20Medicare%20Obesity
I have to leave for work now.
Forte
I haven't really responded to this message because I'm not sure how I feel about the whole thing.
Fear
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