Again with the inability to comprehend whole sentences. I said, "a disease that is, in the Western Hemisphere at least, spread primarily through unprotected sexual contact or IV drug use." That's true. That's absolutely, positively, 100% true. You may not like it, but well, the data shouldn't be twisted to suit your needs.
"You know, it's VERY offensive for you to imply that an AIDS patient 'has control' over whether or not s/he has AIDS."
I don't give a flying fig if you're offended. Furthermore, I didn't imply anything. I stated a simple truth: that because most HIV/AIDS infections are the result of personal choices, most people have control over whether they get AIDS.
"And it's untrue, to boot!"
No, it's not. Are you saying that if I go out and sleep with 20 men tonight and then shoot up heroin in a parking lot with a dirty needle and contract AIDS that I had no control over contracting the disease? Hilarious. And wrong. I'm surprised that you're so willing to let people abdicate personal responsibility and control over their behaviors. (Except if they're fat, of course. Then you really lay into them, right? I mean, to you a druggie or someone who sleeps around is morally superior and deserves Medicare more than a fat person trying to lose weight, right?)
"And it's not the issue here, has nothing to do with whether or not AIDS qualifies for Medicare."
You brought up AIDS trying to illustrate a point. I pointed out the weakness in your argument. It's not my problem that you can't make arguments that withstand mild of criticism.
"The issue has to do with funding, under current law and Medicare guidelines. Whether **obesity** fits the guidelines for funding as a **disease** (under current definitions of the word disease, both medical and legal as those apply to Medicare). And obesity is not a disease. Both AIDS and schitzophrenia are 'diseases' which qualify, under Medicare guidelines."
They qualify only because someone decided they did. God did not hand down a stone tablet to the Dept. of Health and Human Services telling it which diseases to cover and which to not.
"Obesity, however, is not a disease which can qualify for Medicare. That's the issue."
Wow, Jess! What a fantastic post! You took many of the words out of my mouth. Many people have this idea that there is some disconnect between the brain and the body. They believe that disorders of behavior (produced by neurology) are somehow less legitimate than other disorders. Simply not true. Some of the most powerfully heritable diseases are "mental" or "emotional" such as schizoprhenia.
Now whether or not obesity is a disease is a slightly different question. It's a very similar debate to whether addiction is a disease. That's still not entirely settled either.
a few weeks ago i was watching a Real Life show about obesity and it showed several people around a few who who happy being overweight and a few who going to try to qualify for the weight loss surgery. What got me was there was a boy around 17/18 and 350-450 lbs i forget. Anyhow he ate whatever he wanted and kept saying he didn't care because he was going to qualify for the weight loss surgery and that would take care of it all for him. His parents weren't overweight and fed him good foods. He would then go to drive thrus and buy his own junk foods from his work money and hide it from them. The show ended with him graduating and waiting to hear from the insurnace company. I just think it's so sad that people out there will eat that way and expect when they get the surgery to majically eat smaller healthy meals. And to eat more and more since when they get the surgery it will be taken care of.
I don't really have an opinion about the article just thought i'd share about the show..lol
It did not just come out and say obesity is a disease, it said "there is no general agreement on the classification of obesity as an illness." – this is only a shift in semantics. Nothing to get too excited about. The decision will not affect weight loss drugs either.
Here is, in part, what the Washington Post had to say about this decision, which is (as I said earlier) in fact simply a bad, strictly political, move on the part of the Medicare Administration in an election year. Now, from the Post, July 16, 2004; Page A01:
>>The decision was denounced by critics who contend that the health consequences of being overweight have been exaggerated and any real problem is one of individual responsibility.
"This is truly a dumbing-down of the term 'disease.' This is the only disease that I'm familiar with that you can solve by regularly taking long walks and keeping your mouth shut," said Rick Berman, executive director of the Center for Consumer Freedom, a food-industry-funded advocacy group. "It's terrible to start using taxpayer money like this when there are other legitimate diseases that need to be addressed."
The decision is irrational, given that being underweight is more of a health problem for the elderly than being overweight, said Paul F. Campos of the University of Colorado, who wrote a recent book titled "The Obesity Myth."
"It's not just a bad idea -- it's completely unscientific," Campos said. "We're in the grip of a kind of out-of-control cultural hysteria on this issue that leads to really irrational social decisions, such as making obesity a disease among the elderly."
Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) called the decision a "partial" improvement. "This is illustrative of the problem we have with Medicare," he said. "If you've got a problem, we'll fix you. Medicare should have programs to prevent obesity instead."
Harkin is pushing comprehensive legislation that would promote exercise in schools, require nutritional labeling on chain restaurant menus, provide Medicare coverage for screening and prevention services, and give the Federal Trade Commission power to restrict food advertising that targets children. <<
My X-boss had the weight loss surgury. AND the excess skin removed after loosing about 300 pounds. His insurance did pay for all. He still ate whatever he wanted (just not alot, at first), he still drank in excess and still abused drugs. This person told me that "yes he has lost weight, but that wasn't a cure all" If you have lots of problems, having the surgury will only make you thin. You need to heal from the inside out. My 2 cents anyway and I know has nothing to do with medicare....:-)Stephanie 280/225/170 Atkid since 6/15/2003
"It did not just come out and say obesity is a disease, it said 'there is no general agreement on the classification of obesity as an illness.' – this is only a shift in semantics. Nothing to get too excited about."
If I recall correctly, you're the one who has been the most livid about this, not me. So I have to ask . . . why did you bother posting this?
I'm not "livid about this" at all! I merely responded to Shawna's question, and had a most casual discussion with some posters who asked me whatever, in general terms.
As I've said, I just don't think Medicare's decision is anything to get excited about. It's just a political maneuver in an election year, and likely won't impact the population Medicare serves.
And, as I've also said, the Medicare Administration did NOT just come out and say obesity is a disease, it said 'there is no general agreement on the classification of obesity as an illness.' – this is ONLY a shift in semantics. That's all.
Again, this sums up my opinion on the topic. Now, I hope you enjoy your day as I surely plan to go out and enjoy mine.
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Again with the inability to comprehend whole sentences. I said, "a disease that is, in the Western Hemisphere at least, spread primarily through unprotected sexual contact or IV drug use." That's true. That's absolutely, positively, 100% true. You may not like it, but well, the data shouldn't be twisted to suit your needs.
"You know, it's VERY offensive for you to imply that an AIDS patient 'has control' over whether or not s/he has AIDS."
I don't give a flying fig if you're offended. Furthermore, I didn't imply anything. I stated a simple truth: that because most HIV/AIDS infections are the result of personal choices, most people have control over whether they get AIDS.
"And it's untrue, to boot!"
No, it's not. Are you saying that if I go out and sleep with 20 men tonight and then shoot up heroin in a parking lot with a dirty needle and contract AIDS that I had no control over contracting the disease? Hilarious. And wrong. I'm surprised that you're so willing to let people abdicate personal responsibility and control over their behaviors. (Except if they're fat, of course. Then you really lay into them, right? I mean, to you a druggie or someone who sleeps around is morally superior and deserves Medicare more than a fat person trying to lose weight, right?)
"And it's not the issue here, has nothing to do with whether or not AIDS qualifies for Medicare."
You brought up AIDS trying to illustrate a point. I pointed out the weakness in your argument. It's not my problem that you can't make arguments that withstand mild of criticism.
"The issue has to do with funding, under current law and Medicare guidelines. Whether **obesity** fits the guidelines for funding as a **disease** (under current definitions of the word disease, both medical and legal as those apply to Medicare). And obesity is not a disease. Both AIDS and schitzophrenia are 'diseases' which qualify, under Medicare guidelines."
They qualify only because someone decided they did. God did not hand down a stone tablet to the Dept. of Health and Human Services telling it which diseases to cover and which to not.
"Obesity, however, is not a disease which can qualify for Medicare. That's the issue."
Apparently Tommy Thompson disagrees with you.
Now whether or not obesity is a disease is a slightly different question. It's a very similar debate to whether addiction is a disease. That's still not entirely settled either.
Erin
Mom
I don't really have an opinion about the article just thought i'd share about the show..lol
It did not just come out and say obesity is a disease, it said "there is no general agreement on the classification of obesity as an illness." – this is only a shift in semantics. Nothing to get too excited about. The decision will not affect weight loss drugs either.
Here is, in part, what the Washington Post had to say about this decision, which is (as I said earlier) in fact simply a bad, strictly political, move on the part of the Medicare Administration in an election year. Now, from the Post, July 16, 2004; Page A01:
>>The decision was denounced by critics who contend that the health consequences of being overweight have been exaggerated and any real problem is one of individual responsibility.
"This is truly a dumbing-down of the term 'disease.' This is the only disease that I'm familiar with that you can solve by regularly taking long walks and keeping your mouth shut," said Rick Berman, executive director of the Center for Consumer Freedom, a food-industry-funded advocacy group. "It's terrible to start using taxpayer money like this when there are other legitimate diseases that need to be addressed."
The decision is irrational, given that being underweight is more of a health problem for the elderly than being overweight, said Paul F. Campos of the University of Colorado, who wrote a recent book titled "The Obesity Myth."
"It's not just a bad idea -- it's completely unscientific," Campos said. "We're in the grip of a kind of out-of-control cultural hysteria on this issue that leads to really irrational social decisions, such as making obesity a disease among the elderly."
Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) called the decision a "partial" improvement. "This is illustrative of the problem we have with Medicare," he said. "If you've got a problem, we'll fix you. Medicare should have programs to prevent obesity instead."
Harkin is pushing comprehensive legislation that would promote exercise in schools, require nutritional labeling on chain restaurant menus, provide Medicare coverage for screening and prevention services, and give the Federal Trade Commission power to restrict food advertising that targets children. <<
Forte
(edited to quote Washington Post)
Edited 7/26/2004 12:19 pm ET ET by forte10
If I recall correctly, you're the one who has been the most livid about this, not me. So I have to ask . . . why did you bother posting this?
And men expect women to look like Mary Kate Olsen or Calista Flockhart. That's like, about one percent of the female population. Its not realistic.
I'm not "livid about this" at all! I merely responded to Shawna's question, and had a most casual discussion with some posters who asked me whatever, in general terms.
As I've said, I just don't think Medicare's decision is anything to get excited about. It's just a political maneuver in an election year, and likely won't impact the population Medicare serves.
And, as I've also said, the Medicare Administration did NOT just come out and say obesity is a disease, it said 'there is no general agreement on the classification of obesity as an illness.' – this is ONLY a shift in semantics. That's all.
Again, this sums up my opinion on the topic. Now, I hope you enjoy your day as I surely plan to go out and enjoy mine.
Forte
Pages