The dog discussion..........

Avatar for dmm11730
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Registered: 04-06-2003
The dog discussion..........
9
Thu, 05-27-2004 - 8:25am
Hey ladies I moved it over here because I thought it got lost in the Wednesday post. I read what many of you were thinking and everyone has valid thoughts. Being a dog owner and lover myself I have concerns. Like Nancy, we have a border collie too. Bingo! Bingo is wonderful and almost human but we had a bad experience as well. Years ago when we lived in Florida we purchased a Pure Breed German Shepard, all black. Gorgeous dog, we named him Coal. Well at the time we lived on 2 acres and "ALL" the surrounding neighbors allowed their dogs to roam, no one had fences, it was very remote with lots of woods, dirt roads, ect. Well we never had a problem for the year we lived there. Bill got a transfer back up here to NY and up we went, dog and all. Life was different, we rented a house with a fenced yard. Our dog hated it, he began digging under the fence. He was found twice and returned to us. We began to have to tie him to a chain.......man I hated that. Then we moved into our own home. He remained on the line/chain for a few months while we invested and put up this fence. Bill had no longer streched the last part of the fencing when we let the dog out and he jumped the fence right in front. Well you can imagine our surprise. We tried to be responsible with staying outside with him in the back, taking him for walks, but with 2 little boys I could not handle it. One day Coal decided to jump the fence because I had gone back inside because one of the boys needed my help. A lady walking her "yippie" dog past our house, met up with Coal. He was smelling her dog, and her dog bit mine, in turn it only took Coal one bite and he had her dog in his mouth. It took Bill and I ontop of him to release this "yippie" dog. Once Coal did, he relized he did wrong. Thanks God this little dog was fine, no marks, he was not hurt. We however were tramatized by the situation. Bill told her to take the dog to the vet and have him checked out, which we paid for. Bill also took our dog to the vet and had him put down. Its was one of the worse days of our lives. We were afraid that he would snap again and having small children ourselves we were very concerned. We had no one willing to take the dog, and like Bill said he could not in all honesty take a chance. I felt I let the dog down by not having him properly trained. If I had more time, if we had not moved, if the other dog had not bit first. I second guess myself to this day, some 14 years later.

A year later we adopted an 9 month old border collie who happened to be at the North Shore Animal League. We went with the idea of adopting a medium size dog that was controlable. We found Bingo, and well he was perfect. He is the type of dog when you come into my home, who wags his tail, sniffs you to say hi and then leaves. He does not jump on you, he does not run out of the yard. He will stay inside, even with the front door open. We got lucky, we was properly trained and loved by who ever owned him prior to us. To them I thank them, because the work they did with him has truely paid off. He is our perfect pet.

I guess my point of this post is that each dog has its own personality, as does the owner. I feel if you are going to have a pet, you need to be responsible. The pet needs to be trained properly. Our neighbor across the street has a lovely dog, but when they leave the house the dogs barks ..............ALL DAY LONG! It drives us crazy.

Just one more thing, I get annoyed when someone comes to my house and the kids are afraid of the dog. I had one person and she asked me to put my dog away. I told her politly that he was not a threat and if they just ignore him he would not bother them. He said hello, and then left, never bothered them again. I was not going to lock him in a room for the day because they were there. That is not fair either. I know this is a hard discussion and it has mixed ideas but dogs are not the only pets that should have been adressed. Our neighbor must have 10 cats, and its alright for her to let them roam the street. Doing their business in my gardens, walking around my fenced back yard, teasing my dog, walking on my car (Major no-no in this car family!). I just feel if you are going to own a pet, one, two or three you need to be responsible and respectful of each other.

Deb

Debbie

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Registered: 01-06-2000
Thu, 05-27-2004 - 10:09am
Just one more thing, I get annoyed when someone comes to my house and the kids are afraid of the dog. I had one person and she asked me to put my dog away. I told her politly that he was not a threat and if they just ignore him he would not bother them. He said hello, and then left, never bothered them again. I was not going to lock him in a room for the day because they were there. That is not fair either. ...I just feel if you are going to own a pet, one, two or three you need to be responsible and respectful of each other.

My child has been bitten by a dog that she did no more than say "hi" to. After Allison got bitten and lunged at, the only thing she would do is sit in someone's lap and cling to an adult - talk about sad, a child so frightened of what happened and what could happen that she wouldn't play or interact, even when the dog was locked in a room with no possibility of getting out. Seeing my child that traumatized once is one time too many. As a dog owner, you might not realize that to someone who is afraid of dogs, saying "The dog won't harm you if you ignore it" is no comfort at all. I would probably ask you to remove your dog, too (and it wouldn't bother me if you got annoyed) - I don't want to go through any more terror from another "sweet" dog. If you're not willing to make my family feel comfortable by removing a perceived threat, we would not feel as if we were really welcome in your home. Consider your own reaction if Katie were frightened of someone's pet boa constrictor, but the owner said "It won't bother you" and allowed to stay coiled up on the coffee table, not doing anything to make Katie feel at ease.

I happen to be a cat lover, though we don't own any at this time. I think it is just as irresponsible for cats to be let loose - when we get a cat, it'll essentially be a house cat because of loose cat issues. One of our playgroup members and her mom were both terrified of cats. Whenever we all got together at another house where cats were present, yes, the cat owner locked the cats up even though they probably would have steered clear of the room where we were. She could've said "Just ignore them and they won't hurt you" too, but the she respected the visitors' fears. I'd do the same if I had visitors that feared cats - my guests' visit will be for half a day at the most, and my cat will have free reign again after they leave just as it did before. For longer term visitors, the cat would go in a kennel. My parents own birds. Before Allison, we tolerated the ever-present bird poop, but since then they've voluntarily put their birds into a bird kennel, did it without complaining, and have completely understood our concerns whenever we've visited. Their level of ownership responsibility extends to their visitors.

No one here would expect a person with claustrophobia to sit in a closet, so what's the deal with expecting people (esp. children) who are afraid of dogs or cats, disgusted by bird poop, or whatever, to endure them? I'm not saying that a pet's welfare shouldn't be a priority, it should - anybody who neglects animals, let alone abuse them, should be flogged. But when visitors are present, and if we're talking about being responsible and respectful, I truly believe a pet owner has to consider visitors' fears, even if they seem totally irrational to you.

The thread of dogs got started because I was chased by one, not a cat or bird ;^)! Can't say I've ever been chased by a cat or bird... or horse, or snake or any other pet. I've only been chased by dogs. Hmmm.












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Avatar for dmm11730
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Registered: 04-06-2003
Thu, 05-27-2004 - 10:34am
I am not saying your are wrong and I do understand and respect what and how you feel. Heck I also have been chased by dogs when walking or walking my own. I find that annoying and threatning too. That is why we took action with our "other" dog and we did what was best for all involved. I would not want that child to feel uncomfortable. I just wanted you to know that my dog says hi and leaves. I respect their fears and understand them. We did "lock" him into a room once only to have had our molding scratched up. I guess what I am saying is if your child is still afraid and will not leave your side once the animal has been removed then maybe that child or adult should not venture to that house. Katie has one good friend who is afraid of dogs and Katie plays at her house. Its her choice and I understand that. My MIL is terrified of cats, and refuses to go to my sisters. Which I understand completely too. I feel and understand your concerns, so please do not think I don't that was not my intensions.

Deb

Debbie

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Registered: 01-06-2000
Thu, 05-27-2004 - 12:18pm
We were guests at MIL's house, and so was BIL with the dog - the dog did not belong to FIL/MIL and as invited guests we had every right to be there as BIL's family and dog did. (We did it the year before with their old dog, who was indeed people-loving.) In fact, the situation was so unnatural and unnerving that we were going to leave days early until BIL and family said that they would. Allison was 2-1/2 and, after the second incident, so scared to death of being attacked again that locking up the dog and assuring her that it was secure did nothing. The dog should've been removed from the house, but because BIL and family were so concerned about what doggy's feelings would be over being put in a kennel for a few days, we almost did have to remove Allison... bass-ackwards! Allison was the victim, yet at that time her feelings and sense of security were clearly less important to the owners than the dog's.

Yeah, a fearful person can stay away, but why should they feel they have to? A dog can be trained not to tear up a room or yard, a cat can be locked in another room (or in a cat carrier if the cat is destructive), a bird or snake put back in its cage. A guests' concerns or fears should never be minimized to such an extent that they feel they must to stay away altogether - that's part of our obligation to one another as people, that we take steps to ensure the comfort, safety and security of others when they are in our homes, even adults. We tend to forget that and instead focus on our own feelings, sort of like BIL did that year when Allison got bitten and wouldn't even consider sending it to the kennel for a few days. BIL kept their dog, but they've had ample time to think about it all, and care enough about others including strangers they'd encounter in hotels to put pooch in the kennel before they leave whenever we all gather at MIL's house. Funny how doggy is okay in a kennel after all. BIL finally turned his focus outward to other people rather than keeping it on his own feelings for the dog.












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My greatest fear is that there is no PMS and this is my personality.

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Avatar for cl_grace_50
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Registered: 03-19-2003
Thu, 05-27-2004 - 2:36pm

As I mentioned, I am afraid of dogs, but I can learn to be around ones that are gentle. Even with the way I feel, I would never tell an owner to lock up the dog. If it is a nasty dog...I just don't go there again.


The only thing I put my foot down about it letting dogs into my house. I know a lot of people think their pets are part of the family, but I really don't invite them into my house. Once someone asked if they could bring their dog and I said no. They never came. I guess I hurt their feelings. Couldn't be helped.


I really wish I could feel differently about dogs but with all the news media playing up the attacks, especially on LI, I can't get past it. Wouldn't you know it but when I first moved here 36 years ago there were packs of dogs roaming. People had summer places and would adopt dogs for the summer. When they went back to NYC in the fall, they left the dogs to run free. All winter long, the dogs would roam the neighborhood and go through the garbage for food. Thankfully, that has stopped.


So, my dog history is not good.


Grace

cl-grace_50

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Avatar for dmm11730
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Thu, 05-27-2004 - 5:44pm
You are 100% right that Allison should be at your MIL's home. I agree the dog should have remained home, or put into a kennel. At no point did I say she (Allison) should not be there but the dog should. I said or ment to say that when someone visits me at my home they understand we have a family pet, who is good. I do let people know we have a dog and if there is a fear I make sure that Bingo goes under our bed and he stays there. He is that good. I have left him outside for several hours when kids play inside and visa versa should the kids go outside, again if there is a fear or worry. I understand and respect ones fears and at no point did I intend to make light of that fact. A fear is a fear, regaurdless of what type it is. I do believe your BIL was wrong to worry more about his dog rather then his own neice.

Again I did not mean to get you upset or angry with me. My post was not ment to hurt anyone just to agree about how people let their animals run without care or worry. We all have a responsiblity to other people and the pets we own.

Deb

Debbie

Avatar for dmm11730
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Registered: 04-06-2003
Thu, 05-27-2004 - 5:51pm
My sister has a Jack Russell who is her best friend. She takes her dog every place, including my home. Well she used to. Like I said my dog stays home, does not visit with us. He comes out to see who is here, sometimes says hi and then goes back under our bed. But when my sister comes and brings her dog its "look out". We now ask her to leave Bridget home. She used to eat our dogs food, jump into your lap (uninvited), bounce around the house, and jump on my furniture(major no-no). My sister now understands but it made her upset the first time I did ask. I explained its not that I do not like her dog but it is unfair to the rest of my guests and my dog. She understands now and Bridget stays home. So I understand how you feel about people bringing their pets. You have every right to feel like you do. Heck we work hard to keep our homes nice and having her dog do things we normally do not allow was not a good thing.

Deb

Debbie

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 05-28-2004 - 12:50am

One of the 3 shepherds I had was a gorgeous solid black one named Harley, because my ex always wanted a black Harley. ;-) He has a real one now to go with his "new lifestyle." Anyway, Harley was descended from a real police dog that worked for the Daytona Beach police dept. and helped make arrests. Harley was gorgeous and weighed 120 lbs.

       ~~Rhonda~~


<

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Registered: 01-06-2000
Fri, 05-28-2004 - 8:51am
I'm not mad at you at all. Having been on the receiving end of aggressive dog behavior (indirectly), I'm aware that I see things quite differently than dog owners do about their pets - and I'm aware that my view may anger pet owners. For many, it's probably an aspect they don't consider. I know I've asked a dog to be removed before, especially big dogs jumping on me - that scares *me* seeing their teeth at my face. Just like pet owners need a voice to have their needs met, I think people who fear certain pets need to have their concerns addressed.

I was at a friend's house yesterday - she's the one who owned two cats during the times our playgroup met and would close them in a separate room because of some who were terrified of cats. One cat recently died, but she still has the second one. Her formerly hyperactive dog, that Allison used to cry about, has really calmed down. I was loving all over him and Allison was scratching him behind his ears too and running with him. Cat wouldn't leave me alone either! (Most cats recognize that I'm going to love on them.) Needless to say, she only puts her pets away when somebody is really bothered by them, but also believes that doing so is part of being a host - wouldn't think about not doing so.

I'd still like to get inside my BIL's head over that incident! I personally think he's nuts for keeping it because of the potential liability. But then again, if he wouldn't have kept it, we all know it would've been euthanized. I think he was so desparate to have a dog that reminded him of the one which had died.












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Visit our Who's Who

Allison's Website!

My greatest fear is that there is no PMS and this is my personality.

C

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Registered: 01-06-2000
Fri, 05-28-2004 - 10:00am
No doubt there's a difference in self-defense and aggression. I think there's a difference between territorial aggression and a deeper rooted aggression, too. Harley sounds like he put up with a lot from the Dachshund before he had enough (shades of George McFly in "Back to the Future", or the fourth salesman of the day who gets on your last nerve and you let him have it), and it was hardly out of line for him to snap at someone reaching over a fence. ...I'd like to know what idiot would reach over a fence to pet a shepherd! By the time I was 6 I knew that shepherds were protective, could bite and were often police dogs. Anyway, same with the Dachshund - ear pulling, tail stepping or pulling, could get a child hurt. As a baby/toddler, we watched Allison closely around animals and taught her how to pet them, and we monitor her now more for the animal's behavior towards her. I think I'm using my head about safety, not approaching dogs we don't know, and even being alert when we do know them - I'm not expecting them all to be docile lap dogs.

Then there are the "other" aggressive dogs, which it has been my misfortune to repeatedly encounter! When I got chased, the dog must've run 30-40 feet up the driveway and into the street, less protecting his territory than on the hunt with me his chosen prey. BIL's dog was sure on the hunt. My calf was actually the closest target - the dog reached across me to bite Allison, and when the dog lunged and barked furiously it was definitely directed at Al.

Chihuahuas - we call them "Chi-HOO-a-HOO-as" for fun. The first dog I ever fell in love with was my adopted Grandma & Grandpa's chihuahua, Tammy. I don't think she was a mix, either. Sweetest little thing, and a lap dog. Always barked her greetings excitedly. One year at Christmas I was sitting on the floor, Tammy got on my lap and I laid down on my back. Little thing walked up my stomach and chest, and licked my chin, cheeks and nose for 10 minutes. Most chihuahuas are too hyper for me though. I'll take a Pomeranian sitting in my lap anyday (second dog I ever fell in love with)... though I've met a nasty one of those too!












Cussette src="http://pages.ivillage.com/cussette/cross_icon.gif" width=15>, CL- href="http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ppfinances">Family Finances

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for links, tips, reading, tools and answers to your financial
questions





and the href="http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ppplaynov98n">November 1998 Playgroup

Visit our Who's Who

Allison's Website!

My greatest fear is that there is no PMS and this is my personality.

C