Rules and conventions don't apply to him
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| Sun, 05-15-2005 - 12:25pm |
I was just wondering if other people with AS kids have seen this kind of stuff. My ds is REALLY resistant to the idea that rules and conventions apply to him.
The other day, when I picked him up from school, his teacher and I had a little chat. I mentioned that he often says he doesn't think he should have to go to school because he already knows everything. He was within earshot, so he may or may not have heard me say that. The teacher called him over and told him that he is a really good writer, but one thing he still needs to work on is dialog punctuation, and gave him a few specific pointers. The idea was basically to let him know that in fact there ARE some things he still needs to learn.
Well, yesterday, Saturday, DS was totally inspired to WRITE WRITE WRITE. By the end of the day, he had written a twenty-page story, and completed six volumes of a "box-set" of "chronicles". (He has a tendency towards mania). I estimate that he totalled well over a thousand words; pretty good for a seven-year-old. Anyway, the stories were good, but, as his teacher pointed out, it was hard to keep track of who was saying what because he never went to a new line when changing speakers. I read one of his stories, and praised it; it really was quite good. Then I said, "Remember what Ms L. said? Next time, you might want to try doing..."
and he slapped his hands over his ears and walked away, saying, "I wasn't actually listening to her then, and I don't feel like listening to you now."
We get this kind of stuff ALL the time. Not just with writing, but with everything. Especially when it's something that involves another person; he doesn't GET why it's a problem if the other person has to struggle to understand his story, or if the other person gets uncomfortable when he does certain things. Like, when you choose to pitch your imperfect cracker onto the carpet, shouting, "Hey, you idiot cracker! You're supposed to be ROUND!!", it might not be a problem for YOU, but the rest of us don't like stepping on cracker crumbs or listening to angry shouts. He doesn't see the problem.
I think about this whenever I read about social stories. My DS is so resistant to things like that, because it's like someone is trying to suggest alternative ways of doing things.
Does any of this make sense? DH and I are so worn out living with someone who is so selfish and demanding. I didn't mean for this to get all resentful sounding. LOL! Sometimes he surprises us with a random act of selflessness. NT 3.5 year old is constantly offering to do little helpful things, and he also happily accepts instructions and constructive critisism.
I'm not sure if I have an actually question. Mostly I just want to know if people relate to any of this. Just a vent, I suppose.
Evelyn

Hi Evelyn,
I have a 4 year old boy with AS who sounds very much like your DS. He comes right out and tells me he does not want to follow rules and he wants to be the boss. He usually hates to hear advice and will close his eyes when he's tuned me out. However there are times when hes in a good mood and receptive to conversations about how to be a better person. He likes to hear stories about when I was young and in a similar situation and he likes social stories because I always let him make one up...it's usually about him being "perfect" and demanding...we always get a laugh out of it.
I can't say,though, how to handle a 7 year old with the same issue. I think that they really feel insecurities deeper and put up this front of perfection in order to give them some sense of control. I can only sympathize because I know we are headed there, too. The older DS gets the more he "knows it all".
Shelley
Hey Evelyn....do we have the same kid!LOL. My ds sounds exactly like yours. He does not think rules apply to him. He hates rules. Billy's school used to try social stories with him and he absolutely detested them. He used to say "I know what you are trying to do." Meaning he knew what we were trying to get across with the social story. For example, trying to get him to brush his teeth, he would just become more reistant. Finally the school just gave up. So we don't do social stories anymore!LOL. Plus stuff like having to go to school, he just doesn't think it applies to him. He also says he knows everything and that he doesn't need it. Or swim lessons, he knows how to swim so he doesn't need those. (he has no idea how to swim) It's really frustrating as I was under the impression that aspie kids really thrived on rules. They just seem to make my ds hostile. Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks,
Jen
Jen
Evelyn,
In one sense you are lucky. Cassian has complete breakdowns when he does not get his way, so we cannot yet move on to rationalizing with him. You may have other options because your son is more logical and high functioning. I cannot guarantee that these ideas will work, but maybe there are a few things in this bag of tricks you could try.
1) A SUBTLE APPROACH (good to use when you want to teach something to someone who takes criticism very badly) - - if you want to avoid the ear-covering sort of episode, try delivering the correction message VERY VERY subtly. For example, maybe you could find a video or book about the writing technique that your son is lacking and watch/read it together. You could also try writing a story with him or trading stories that you both have written. He sounds so smart and perfectionistic that he may pick up the differences in his writing style and simply incorporate them on his own with very information being presented very subtly.
2) REWARD HANDLING SITUATIONS WELL (may work if you want to address this issue directly) - - Set up a system where DS gets rewards for handling situations well in which he gets feedback. Before giving such feedback, you may also want to preface your statements with something like, "I need to tell you something that might be hard for you to hear now...." This could help him transition into a mode where he may possibly endure the feedback a little better.
3) THE LOGICAL/COGNITIVE APPROACH (another direct intervention idea) - - use discussion and social stories to address "what would happen if we all acted this way?" Sometimes taking these situations into third person really helps a highly sensitive person distance themselves and become more logical.
4) DRAMATIC APPROACH - - Play games where you play the role of the child and your child plays the role of the teacher/parent. Using dolls/stuffed animals is another way to do this. If DS likes other settings, like outer space or fantasy, you can use these. Just keep the basic character roles the same (authority figure, subordinate). Act like your child in these games to get your point across. Try to get your child to problem solve what to do from the perspective of the teacher/parent. If discussions follow these play sessions, go with it!
5) DEALING WITH FEELINGS BOOKS - - Elizabeth Crary has a good set of books called, Dealing with Feelings that have difficult situations and multiple options for endings. Another good book that goes through social situations logically is The Social Skills Picture Book by Jed Baker, PHD. Baker's book has picture stories about "Accepting NO for an Answer," "Dealing With Mistakes," "Keeping Calm," and many others that might help.
6) Find a psychologist who specializes in Asperger's or even kids with Oppositional Defiant Disorder (just because the issues are similar). Someone who works directly with your child could tailor treatments to his personality.
7) Check out this list of traits of childhood bipolar disorder: http://www.bpkids.org/site/PageServer?pagename=lrn_about. If you think enough of these traits fit your child, consultation with a psychiatrist could be a good idea at this point. When on the right meds, BP kids are often much less oppositional, and ASD's often do go along with mood disorders. It is also common for BP kids to be gifted and creative like your DS seems to be.
Suzi
We have the same problem but often Mike just doesn't get it from the other person's perspective or why the rules need to apply to him. I just sometimes think he doesn't get it he is so rigid minded. I think rules really often require the ability to understand the point of view of others and that is hard for our kids. SO they tend to go overboard with rules and rigidity but at the same time have a hard time with following them themselves.
Perhaps because understanding the general concept of rules and the WHY of rules is hard for them. As such they need to organize it and process it in a way thier brain comprehends and therefore the rigid adherence to what the rest of us consider non functional rules and routines.
Most rules involve how OUR behavior affects someone ELSE or may affect someone else. I think that is a very hard thing for a person with ASD to get. Even speeding because if we speed it can cause an accident that will hurt someone else. Mike the other day was caught about tackling Dave and about to punch him repeatedly in a rage. He lost electronics for 24 hours which is our consistent rule. He had done this because Dave had been kicking him in the back lightly to get him to move. Being a brat basically, more nudging than kicking. He could NOT understand how his behavior had broken the rule and was worse than Dave's behavior. He just obsessed on the fact that Dave was kicking him and so he had no fault.
We are doing alot of what Suzi mentioned and he is coming along slow but surely. Their psychologist/therapist has been really great with this. One of the big things is she is working on game playing. Believe it or not this helps with this because Mike can't play games because of his problem with rules. He gets nasty about following the rules as he understands it but it doesn't apply to him. By working on the rules in games he is at least getting it there and then we will hopefully generalize it. We also have certain rules which are very concrete and clear with consequences. Really currently the only one is aggressions for that, but are going to add yelling soon. ONly he doesn't recognize when he is yelling.
Renee