Yet another school WWYD....

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-24-2003
Yet another school WWYD....
7
Thu, 09-21-2006 - 11:29am

Right now I have my 4 yo in 2 pre-K programs, each 2 days a week. One school she started in the "preschool" program last October after her first diagnosis of high functioning ASD and the recommendation that she get regular, structured socialization. She's been with the school a year, but in this classroom only about 6 weeks. The second school is a theraputic pre-K program in the public school district that she started only last week. However, it's the only "exceptional" district in NM and I've been thrilled with everyone I've dealt with so far.

We've had problems with school (in general) since we started last year (as any of you can imagine): problems with tranistions, social skills, refusal to take part in class activities, meltdowns, ect. ect. ect. However, in the "preschool" room there were two very cooperative teachers that communicated with us daily and helped us work out plans for behavior modification to work on in school and at home. We were able to agree on what was important to get her to do and when it was appropriate to let her join a different class on the playground, or reading in a corner, or whatever. That kind of thing. I knew if there was an altercation with another child so I could talk to Kivrin about it and/or work on some role play about it. The situation had problems, but it was workable. Over the last 6 weeks to hear the new teacher tell it, a miracle has occurred and Kivrin never has fights with other children, she plays with everyone, she does everything she's asked, she hasn't had a single meltdown, and she loves school. All of this is of course due to the new teacher's vastly superior teaching ability~~don't ask!~~~it's a god given ability.

As much as I would love to believe I have my own personal miracle worker, let's say I'm skeptical. Kivrin has developed personality changes that I don't like. She is more anxious. She has lost skills (drawing(never at level, but not scribbles), writing her name (never great, but recognizable), using the bathroom without assistance, getting dressed without assistance, getting her own snack out of the cabinet, ect.). She constantly has pottying accidents. She's more and more likely to identify herself as a baby, or baby something (bird, dog, triceratops, orca...). The one area where I felt like I was succeeding in parenting was that she felt fairly independent and despite her challenges was really willing to take charge of herself as long as I could keep her environment safe. (And I've been there when she was crying uncontrollably and I had to take her off to play instead of whatever they class was doing, so I know the "NO meltdowns" isn't true.)

So, I know something's wrong. She can't tell me what it is though. I have no idea if she's even reliably reporting an event that happens in the day. Her fantasy world is her real world and vis a versa. I know that's true for lot's of small children, but that's really true for Kivrin and with her poor pragmatic language skills, just forget about it. But little things pop out of her mouth some times, like tiny tape recordings and I know she heard them somewhere and I know it wasn't in this house. Things like "I can't believe you don't know how to do THAT!" and "Don't be studid." It might have come from another child. I hope so. And when she plays school her teacher is very very loud and she usually wants to change quickly and be last year's teacher and then says "Kivrin has to go to Miss Mary Jo's class tomorrow, not today. Today she can stay here and be nice." The clincher came when we were playing school a 2 days ago and she told me "I will be Christine. She has a lot of friends. You can be Kivrin. She gets in trouble a lot." I asked why Kivrin gets in trouble a lot and was told "She doesn't know how to listen good." and I almost cried.

She doesn't come home from the theraputic pre-K unhappy and stressed though. She loves it. She's happy and a little overstimulated, maybe too aggressive, but that's how she always is. I know it's still the honeymoon period. However, I just so much want to pull her out of the private school and keep her only in the district class. The district teacher wants me to have her in school 4 days though for the socialization. I'm starting to think socialization is overrated.

And that brings me to my WWYD? Would you pull your child out of a school just because you had this kind of indirect evidence that things weren't all they should be? Do you guys think 4 days of school is a necessary intervention for a 4 year old with AS or NLD or HFA or whatever they are going to settle on? Do you think a structured short class, like dance or gymnastics, or library story hour could substitute in part?

TIA

Mary

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-11-2003
Thu, 09-21-2006 - 12:22pm

Trust your Mommie instincts. They won't steer you wrong. I didn't trust mine when Hannah was in preschool and it was nothing but tears and stress for her & me. What good did that do? I did end up pulling her from the class but not till like January. I often ask myself now why I trust my instincts and do it sooner. I too was being told she needed to socialization.

Samantha

Samantha
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-20-2006
Thu, 09-21-2006 - 2:06pm

I am a "been there done that" with Stephen as well. We did pull him out of this first preschool, and moved him to a 3 day a week structured daycare where his socializing skills thrived. Trust your instints. You know your child. I would also question the teacher. I am the teachers worst nightmare mom when Stephen was in public school. I questioned everything I heard from him that I thought was really weird.

Kari

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-16-2006
Thu, 09-21-2006 - 7:26pm
IMHO - I'd try to see if I could fix the problem at school before I'd pull out. Why? because Kivrin is 4, so she'll be in kindy soon so I think going to school is something he should get used todoing. because she is having the stress indicators from the re-K class, that let's you know the problem isn't necessaily with Kivrin, its with the school or rather the teacher. I'd bring my concerns directly to her, and then if I didn't see changes, I'd address it in an IEP setting so that my concerns were clear and on the record. If still no changes, i'd try to change her clas, or see if she can go to the pree-K class all 4 days. All of this to say hold the teacher accountable...who knows how many other kids are being mistreated. I have heard enough teacher stories this week to make my head spin....
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2003
Thu, 09-21-2006 - 7:27pm

I agree. Trust your instincts. I'm sure socialization IS good -- if it's positive socialization (like at the district school), but when it's all negative socialization at the private school, it's not serving it's purpose AND it's causing new problems.

I'm not yet educated enough in AS to know whether the other classes would serve as appropriate substitutes for socialization, tho' no socialization is better than the negative stuff she's currently getting. I hope someone can better answer.

Best wishes.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-25-2003
Thu, 09-21-2006 - 8:38pm

Mary,


When I first

-Paula

visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 09-21-2006 - 10:42pm

My thought? Change is hard on small kids partiuclarly small kids with autism. We often do things like put them in 2 classes so they get the structure in one and the socialization in the other and it is really hard. They have to learn 2 different schedules, 2 different sets of teachers, expectations, etc. Add to that a typical preschool teacher who likely doesn't understand ASD's and it is hard on her.

If I am understanding you, she has been in the theraputic preschool for a year and you added a typical preschool 6 weeks ago? Is the typical preschool part of her IEP plan or something you are doing on your own? Can she get more days through the theraputic preschool? Do they have any inclusion, reverse mainstreaming, or integration type programs in that school she could be involved in?

Young children with autism should have 20-25 hours a week of some sort of intervention (per guidelines in National Association of Science book on young children with autism - I will look for the reference). Even if that means taking her for swimming lessons, the preschools or what not. Figuring out what she needs within it depends on Kirvin and her individual self.

That said, your mention of problems with transitons, etc, and everything else you stated would lead me to believe that she is stressed and that quite possibly the current plan isn't the most effective on for her at this time. Particularly considering the school in question doesn't sound particularly supportive or willing to work with you.

As an aside, Mike was in a typical preschool where the teacher insisted that he was doing fine. When i observed mike spent nearly the entire time riding the little bike outside and whenever they tried to direct him in he had a behavior problem so while they would sometimes encourage him to join in, mostly they just let him take over a bike and stay outside the entire 2-3 hours. So naturally he didn't have any behavior problems. He was very verbal so they had not other concerns either and in fact they even sabotaged the eval I had for him giving thier oppinoin that I was nuts. I just didn't spend enough time with Mike because of the new baby and lots of other lovelies.

There is my 2 cents. I would hold an IEP with the supportive school and find another way to meet her needs and cut down on her transitions and going to 2 different schools.

Renee

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-24-2003
Fri, 09-22-2006 - 11:09am

The good school is the new one. The traditional school is the one we've been going to for a year. It's just that they moved her from one teacher (preschool) to another (pre-K) in the old school that is recent. This new teacher is under the impression that there is nothing wrong with Kivrin that a little structure and time won't cure, and since Kivrin is one of the youngest in the class everything gets put down to immaturity.

Kivrin also spends a lot of time riding a trike in circles around the playground. When she can't handle circle time she gets sent to her mat to lay down. I hear all the time "I'm not a good listener". The other kids always say things like "Kivrin got in trouble" and the teacher shushes them "Don't tattle! Everyone gets in trouble some times." I've tried to explain that to me that isn't "tattling". I'm not going to beat Kivrin because she was talking during circle time or refused to do what they wanted her to do. No one is getting grounded over a mishap at preschool. However, I can't help solve problems that I don't know exist. And they aren't helping Kivrin by hiding and covering up her weaknesses. Just because Kivrin isn't a perfect student according to their idea of perfect student they aren't bad teachers.

I think I need a place a little less ego driven.

Thanks.

Mary