Not a teen question

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Registered: 02-14-2000
Not a teen question
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Mon, 03-03-2014 - 4:22pm

We got back from Vegas on Thursday. Had a lot of fun - the weather was great - it was in the 70's there during the day. It was 12 here on Thursday when we flew in - UGH. Went to UFC on that Saturday for DH's birthday. Saw one of the Cirque du Soleil shows that we hadn't seen on Monday. We're not big gamblers or shoppers so besides that we walked a lot, ate too much, drank too much, etc. That was my 4th time in Vegas. One thing I noticed this time was that so many people had babies/toddlers/preschoolers with them. Not so much school age kids (probably because it was during the school year). But in the hotel, on the strip, in the restaurants - there were so many little ones. I can't imagine taking a baby or toddler to Vegas. I mean - what fun would that be?? When the boys were very young we'd typically do a weekend in St. Louis or Chicago to a zoo/aquarium/kids museum/etc. We did take them to Disney a few times as they were growing up - my dad and step mom lived an hour away so we'd combine it with a visit to them. The first time we went to Disney Justin was 5 and afterwards we wished we would have waited a year or two - dh ended up carrying him half of the time and he doesn't even remember that first trip now.

How about you? Did you do extravagant vacations with your teens when they were babies/toddlers?

Pam

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Registered: 08-08-2009
Fri, 03-07-2014 - 9:51pm

Oh, Musiclover, the “stoning” has already begun!!!  LOL  Start thinking and looking for your mother of the bride dress.

Ours are still a couple of years away from the wedding season for their high school friends, but your DD is getting into the season obviously.  Go here, go there and so forth for all those weddings. I think that starts the bridesmaids and the groomsmen to start thinking along those terms. 

On the kid’s honeymoon, they did lots of their own things on their own schedules, sometimes with the other honeymooners and others not, while the adults did their own things, sometimes together, sometimes alone.  All of us met with the wedding coordinator together, we took the brides and grooms to the wedding in separate vehicles, kept them apart for traditions sake until the wedding on the wedding day.  The guy’s fathers were their best men.  It was fun for all.  The men took the grooms out for a bachelor party at a local restaurant, but no girls popped out of a cake.  The harp player’s G-string did not break as happened at another family wedding. (The joke there is that at another family wedding the harp player was unable to play because of a broken string on the harp.  The bride’s father claimed it was the G-string.  I’m so dumb I don’t even know if a harp has a G-string. The men all thought it was funny.) 

I hear you on the disappointment of grandmother and other family members.  And family is important to consider.  Also the dreams of the bride, groom, and their parents need to be considered as a wedding is also a merging of families.

Sabrtooth, as we are all aware, a $5,000 deductible is a mere drop in the bucket for what those little “bundles of joy” will cost.  However they are well worth it (—until they sue you for high school and college tuition and living expenses plus their legal costs).  LOL

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Registered: 11-28-1999
Fri, 03-07-2014 - 12:07pm

Guess what my DD got for her BD from the BF?  Diamonds--not a ring, but earrings.  So this guy is on the right path.  lol  She has been going to weddings--one in Orlando, one on Long Island and has more to come.  I don't know about the destination wedding because I know the elderly relatives (like my 88 yr old mother) wouldn't be able to go and would be disappointed.  I'm sure I will not be invited on the honeymoon, nor would I want to go as a single person surrounded by married couples.  I just hope by the time of her wedding, I might be able to score a date!  I do ballroom dancing as a hobby so it would be kind of sad not to have anyone to dance with--or I'd have to dance with all the young guys.

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Registered: 11-28-1999
Fri, 03-07-2014 - 12:03pm

Sabr, I totally agree with you.  My former dentist (only 5 yrs older than me, but he died recently) lived on my street.  He & his partner had a son but never got married--they were going to get married and I think at that time her father died so they postponed it and it just never happened, but they were as committed (or more committed) than married partners.  I think it probably would have made more sense financially for things like insurance if they had gotten married since MA had no domestic partnership laws and no common law marriage.

My brother, who was gay, died of AIDS, so I am definitely familiar with what could happen and would not want a reoccurrence of that scenario.  I went into his bedroom to shut off the alarm clock on a weekend that he had forgotten to turn off.  usually I avoid his room like the plague because it's a mess--so much for the stereotype that all tay men are neat--definitely not true.  I was pickinig up some empty bags on the floor to throw out & I found one bag with a box of condoms in it.  I figured well at least he is not being dumb.  I don't know if they are being used currently or saving for the future--I don't really want to know, hopefully being saved "just in case" since he is not dating anyone now.  He did go on a dating site, which did not make me that happy at his age, but I figured that being gay and not that many guys are comfortable being out in high school, he's not really meeting anyone.  He did tell me that he stopped doing it because of things like guys just wanting to hook up and even some 40 yr old men wanting to meet him, so apparently he has some common sense.

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Registered: 08-08-2009
Fri, 03-07-2014 - 1:36am

Musiclover and Sabrtooth, humor, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.  After I posted, I was afraid that you might take my humor the wrong way.  I was glad to see that was taken as intended.  THANK YOU BOTH FOR TAKING MY TEASING CORRECTLY.

Thinking about your daughter, Musiclover, I think she is seriously considering this guy and vise versa.  I expect that she is going to get stoned soon—as in hit with an engagement ring.  Congratulations, mother of the bride!!!!  LOL People spending lots of time together greatly increase the chances of that happening.  And you’re being included in certain details indicates to me that it is serious.   

May I suggest going on her honeymoon to Hawaii with her and her groom.  LOL  I’m being dead serious.  Look at SWEETHAWAIIWEDDING.COM.  (No “S” at the end of wedding as that is another wedding site.)  It is beautiful, quick, easy, painless, less stressful, less expensive and very enjoyable for everybody. Those who want the official church sanctioned wedding with an official of the church can do that privately before they depart for paradise and if they choose to, they can have a post wedding party to celebrate with friends and family who could not come with them and show them the beach wedding pictures. 

Warning to anybody who opens the door to my personal closet, you will literally be beaten to death by the bones as they fell out.  And that ain’t no joke.

When I found out I was pregnant before our wedding, I told nobody because I figured that was need to know information and they did not need to know.  I think it would have unnerved my parents, his parents, the grandparents, so why do it?    I told my daughters and their guys to keep their mouths shut about the living arrangements at our house as it’s nobody’s business and all you will get is gossip and unwanted flack. This included making sure oldest guys vehicle wasn’t parked at our house overnight.  The only family member I ever told was my older sister and that was after her daughter, a year older than our oldest, was pregnant and she asked if our daughters were having sex.  I could have lied, pled the 5th, but I figured she needed some comfort and knew it would go no further. I did not tell her the full extent and I did not and would not tell the grandparents as they, like a lot of people, would not understand.   Why bother them with details.

On the flip side of that is you don’t want to let people walk into an open manhole of embarrassment that should and could be avoided.  When necessary you want to make sure that those who need to know do.  This illustration will make me look like a racial bigot, which I have probably have been in the past.  One of my generations of cousins, married a black man.  When we knew they would be present at a family reunion, I talked to our daughters about their cousins being darker skinned and not to say anything.  Kids as only kids can said “oh dark like us from the sun.”  Well a little darker, but yeah.  Our daughters never even noticed it, but I did so because I did not want any hurt feelings—hurt feelings that could and should have been avoided. 

As for adults in relationships having kids, I think I agree with Greg’s father in Dharma and Greg, most are married, but don’t realize it.  And we have a few of those in the extended family and friends.  I don’t know any thirty something without a significant other around.  Maybe the older guys don’t split or maybe the gals don’t get involved with splitters.   Teens are more problematic for sure.  More splitters at that age and those with relationships to build on need lots of parental support and encouragement. My argument to those parents is “You can win the argument or maybe win the family you want your child to have.  I’d rather lose the argument.”   The ones I feel for are the ones where the parents can’t or won’t provide that.  I can’t imagine being among the “won’t” crowd.

When discussing when and what kids remember, youngest couple recently started wearing PJs at night.   I have never seen them, but am aware that both couples have always enjoyed sleeping together in the buff.  Sometime back, the youngest daughter asked me when that would have to stop.  I told her probably when oldest son is three as before that he probably won’t remember.  This Christmas they received PJs from both sets of parents and her sister and his older brother and sister. 

When I am at Tahoe this summer, I will look for the pebbles.  LOL

Avatar for sabrtooth
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Registered: 12-03-1999
Thu, 03-06-2014 - 1:01pm

Ash, our kids remember Tahoe because it was FRIGID, and because it has a pebble bottom.   It was a warm spring, and the air temp was well in the 80's.  They weren't even wearing suits, but when they saw the water, as kids do, they ran for it.  Boy, were they surprised!!!  The pebbles also stuck with them, because Lake Michigan, and the oceans, are all sand, and that is what they expected. 

Music, I think there is a world of difference between the unmarried pregnancy of an adult who is educated, well employed, & self supporting, and a teen who is uneducated, unemployed, uninsured and living with their parents.  Even if the above referenced adult was not in a committed relationship, they would still be perfectly capable of supporting a child.  And please impress upon your son that the risks to a gay man, of a poorly aligned, or missing condom, are FAR worse than an unintended pregnancy, so PLEASE be prepared and be safe, every time.

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Registered: 05-27-1998
Thu, 03-06-2014 - 11:59am

We took our kids all over the place--US, Canada, England, France--when they were young. They definitely do have memories from our early trips. One of our family catch phrases, used when we're sick of a situation, "I'm tired of castles!" came from DS's infamous temper tantrum on the grounds of Blenheim Palace. He remembers both the walk and the tantrum and he was only 3.

We didn't tailor our activities around the kids' level of development. We did what interested us, and hoped the kids would one day be interested, too. (I would not have brought them to Las Vegas, however, because I hate gambling and have no desire to go there.)

What grabbed their attention often surprised us. Our son remembers waiting to get to the front of the line to see the Mona Lisa a lot more vividly than he remembers waiting in lines at Disney World, for example, although both vacations were awesome. Our daughter remembers taking off her clothes and playing in a frigid fountain in Sonoma, CA when she was a preschooler, but not being chased by an angry chicken in the Plaza there.

I guess our whole parenting style has been more about bringing the children up to our level of interest rather than always revolving around theirs. Of course we had the normal assortment of toys and did child-friendly activities, but we also had antiques and breakable things out so they'd learn to be gentle and appreciate these things. We were definitely an adult-centric family and our vacations often reflected that.

.

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Registered: 11-28-1999
Thu, 03-06-2014 - 10:50am

Kimmy, your posts are always so funny.  I hope the IV leaders don't suddenly disappear this board like they seem to be doing every day now so we will lose all our contacts--at least warn us first!

Now why did you have to go and plant that idea of birth control failure in my mind?  don't I have enough to worry about?  lol  Seriously my kids have a stepsister on their dad's side who is now about 30--she has a son who is now 5--he was a surprise, but she was in a relationship w/ the father--now they are still together, bought a house (I think my ex was thinking they would never move out) and I remember that they got engaged around the time my DD was graduating from college 2 yrs ago but I don't hear any talk of a wedding.  If I ever ask my kids about it, they just roll their eyes.  (We are one of those strange families where we are divorced but everybody gets along including the whole new family--I know the stepmother's whole extended family since all of them were at DD's grad party which was held at dad & SM's house where my family went also.  My 2nd DH did not get the memo on how everybody was supposed to get along, which is another reason he is out of the picture now.)

So a few years ago, before DS told me he was gay, he had a GF so I was constantly impressing upon him the dangers of sex, what happens if she gets pregnant, you will have no choice about whether she has the baby & keeps it, you will be paying child support, etc.--his comment to me was "well don't most people have a baby first and then get married?"  Uh, has never been done in our family--yet!  I already stick out being the only divorced person in the family, not to mention being divorced twice, so let's keep things more traditional.  Although I guess that it out the window with a gay son (although not out to family yet--my mom is 88, not sure she can handle that info, but ironically I found out that my cousin's son is also gay--and also not out to the extended family.)

Oh and as far as DD's BF, I have only met him once since he lives down in DC--but ironically his family is also from MA so I am hoping that they do get married and then they decide it's important to be near family when they have kids so they move back here!  He seemed like a very nice guy, he's a few years older, has a very good job, so barring any skeletons in the closet that we don't know about, I'd be all for a wedding.  The last family wedding was my cousin's DD's, which was 6 or 7 yrs ago--that one was in Nebraska so I was the only one who went out there.  It's about time for another one! 

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Registered: 08-08-2009
Wed, 03-05-2014 - 11:28pm

Musiclover, I went in and looked at the WDW ticket prices.  Single day tickets are indeed over $100 each with sales tax.   The ten day tickets that we paid around $350 each for with sales tax included are now about $490 each with sales tax.  Four days now sell for above $400 each with tax.  Therein is the reason that we went for the ten day tickets, which have to be used within fourteen days of the first day of use.  I have heard that nowadays they get your fingerprints so that they cannot be sold to others. (They must know our daughters. LOL)  We always purchased the ones with access to the water parks and the park hopper feature that allows you to go between the parks on the same day.  My guess is that the park has figured out that if you make the ten day tickets cheap enough, the folks will spend more than enough in extra hotel nights and food to make up for the difference and probably lots of folks only use seven or eight of those ten days.

Joking and seriously, we can’t afford WDW until we get the couples off the family dole and bringing home more dough ray me.  Actually, hubby and I can see a little light at the end of the tunnel, which we hope is not an oncoming train.  LOL  At the end of this year, we will have finished paying for the girls college undergrad tuition debt.

Don’t be concerned about your daughter going on vacation with her boyfriend.  I’m sure the room has two beds.   On spring break trips to South Padre Island, I always slept in a separate bed from the other couple, but with my boyfriend.  

(I know I’m bad, but I could not resist the teasing.  LOL  Seriously, they probably were on a honeymoon, but just haven’t realized it yet.  This is probably “the one.” In a few months you’ll be standing at her wedding, thinking like the mother on Fidler on the Roof, “I don’t remember growing older.” LOL   PS: Remind her that all birth control has a failure possibility to it.  Our OBgyn warned our youngest of this fine point, when she put her on the three year implant program.  Like with snippings it is rare, but it does happen.   Beware of pill failures!)

Oh, I do remember The Brady Bunch from reruns and I do somewhat remember that show also.  Another good memory and a good family show.  LOL  I also remember Step by Step with Suzan Summers and Patrick Duffy who had a whirlwind romance in Jamaica while there on separate vacations, got married there, and found out when they got home that the kids all knew each other from school and hated each other.  LOL The show lasted for something like seven years.   If I recall correctly, as a teen Susan had a baby in high school and “had to get married”—a kindred sole with Nancy Reagan, my mother, me, and my daughter.

Another of those crazy situations was Dharma and Greg where Dharma’s parents were old hippies having never “formally” married and Greg’s were the proper rich folks.  I recall Greg’s father getting into a discussion with Dharma’s father about his claim of not being attached and free to move on, which was clearly false after all the years that had passed.  It ended with some statement from Greg’s dad saying whether Dharma’s dad knew it or not he was MARRIED.   LOL  In another episode they had a flashback scene of Dharm’s dad explaining to Darma’s grandfather why he could not marry her mother who was pregnant with Dharma.  The soon to be grandfather called out to his wife to bring him his rifle.  When Dharma’s dad took off running, the grandfather called out again to his wife and said, “The one with the scope darlin.”  LOL If you never saw these shows they will not be so funny. 

The last couple of years, births to unmarried women have been around 41% of all births.  A few months ago, I saw where it is about 48% of first births, which like it or not, means that it is very common.  The growth over the past few years has not been in the teens, but in the older gals who hear their bio clock ticking like Big Ben. The growth in pregnant brides is due to the fact that many older brides stop birth control as soon as they are engaged for fear it may soon be tooooooooooooooo late.  The point of the article was that a sizeable portion of these unmarried births were to woman in serious long term relationships, not unattached bar hopping bimbos.   

Several years ago, I read a biography of Sir Richard Branson, of Virgin Records, Virgin Airlines, Virgin phones, who strangely enough is not a virgin as his children were born before he married his current wife. It was a bit of a hit piece to be honest, but in it was this interesting quote from him or his wife about some friends getting married, “How can they be getting married, they have no children yet?” My family would phrase it a little bit differently, “How can they be getting married, the bride is not pregnant yet?”

Oh Sabr, how funny again.  Thank you for sharing it again for me.  Brings up memories of Karnack the Great on the Johnny Carson show, where Johnny would wear a turban, hold up the envelope without opening it and tell you the answer and then Ed McMann would read the questions.  Like “A girl” and “What sex is the baby?”  I bet that NONE of those envelopes fail to get opened as they are just toooooooooooooooo powerful to resist the temptation of. LOL  I can also picture all those great grannies wanting to know because they might not be around that much longer. 

Jokingly, its people like you that stole our granddaughter before the stork could get to our hospital.  The reverse of that joke would also be true as people like us stole your grandson before the stork reached your hospital.  Another joke would be, “Well Anthony, it’s your fault, not our daughters, as GOD lets you guys make that decision.”  I suspect that Anthony and all of you are like us, we want healthy babies and the details beyond that are not all that important.  I know a family that went from 100% home equity to 125% debt.  When they left the research hospital, the father pulled the car to the side of the road and led his wife in prayer with words like, “LORD, we left this hospital with everything that is important, and we recognize that and give thinks to you for that kindness and blessing.”  I think that would be all of our thoughts. 

I also enjoyed reading about parents that do “divorce correctly” and don’t use the kids as weapons, etcetera.  I suspect that doing that is no less difficult than landing men on the moon.     

Lolo wants another girl.  What luck!   You’re going to get a grandson.  Congratulations!!!!!   LOL  

Turtletime, made me think of a set of pictures in a magazine ten or so years ago of two cousins when they were like 10, 30, 50, and then 70 at a particular beach spot and the caption was something about the toll of time on life.  I’ve noticed that about our beach pictures.  Hubby and I are NOT improving with age either.  LOL

Pam, thanks again for starting a most interesting thread of discussion.

Avatar for sabrtooth
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Wed, 03-05-2014 - 5:47pm
Turtle, I am absolutely with you. ALL the things we do during our kids' lives have an impact upon them, whether they remember the actual event or not. Rae was 6 mos old when she went sledding for the first time, with her Daddy. Lolo was 8 mos old when she went trick-or-treating with her sister, propped in a wagon with blanket around her, and a pillowcase with a hole cut in it, over her snowsuit, to turn her into a ghost. Of course they don't remember those events, except they have seen the snapshots, and the videos, and they remember the delight those things recorded.
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Registered: 12-03-1999
Wed, 03-05-2014 - 5:37pm

Oh Kimmy, you missed that memo, too.  It's a girl.  When they had their ultrasound at Thxgiving time, the tech said it was VERY clear what the sex was, & asked them if they wanted to know.  Anthony was still vehement about not knowing, so the tech wrote it down, and gave them the sealed envelope, in case they changed their mind. 

Well, family pressure grew.  And WHAT a family.  Anthony's parents, in all their myriad combinations, are absolute role models for how divorced parents should conduct their lives, and raise their children.  Both his parents are remarried.  Anthony and his full sister have a half brother with their mother and step-dad, as well as a half sister with their father and step-mother.  And they have a cousin their mom and step-dad are helping raise, after his mom's brother, an over-the-road truck driver, lost his wife to breast cancer when his dd was 3.  So he moved next door to his sister.  She's 18 now, and thick as thieves with Anthony's 20yo half-sister, who is no "real" relation to her at all, yet IS her cousin.  ALL these parents, stepparents, grandparents, stepgrandparents, aunts, uncles, stepaunts, stepuncles are involved in these kids' lives.  All the kids were raised AND disciplined by all the adults in their lives.  And ALL of them were coming to the shower, and wanted to know what the sex was.  The loudest were his 3 grandma's all in their mid 80's, and all in wheelchairs.  (You should have seen them knocking back mimosas and bloody marys at the shower!)  So the kids opened the envelope, Anthony was disappointed, and Ed said, "That's my curse".  They got enough clothes to FILL two 13gal white kitchen garbage bags, which is how they seperated the 0-6 mos from the 9-12 mo clothes. Very few are unisex enough for Lolo to use if she has a boy, so they are hoping for another girl. 

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