Anger when not on ADD meds??

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Registered: 05-12-2003
Anger when not on ADD meds??
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Mon, 09-04-2006 - 7:16pm

Hello, as some of you know my 17 year old 0DD was diagnosed with ADD about 2 months ago. She has been on Adderall, but has not been taking it every day. I had read that many people don't take it on days they don't work or go to school because it keeps them up at night. It does give her insomnia and haven't pushed for her to take it every day. I have witnessed something that bothers me though. If DD goes two days without it... she gets very angry, sarcastic, and cannot seem to control her temper. If she doesn't get her way, I get a whole string of very mean, sarcastic remarks and she tells us she hates us! Well, I know teens can get this way but it seems that there may be a link with the meds. I'm not sure if we should try a different medication or what. The Adderall helps her focus on tasks and helps her get along with people much better. She is really hard to live with if she is not on the meds, with regard to her accomplishing things and being nice to people. She seems to blow things way out of proportion when not on the meds. I am worried about her next year when she goes to college (or will try to). She is rather non-compliant.... I had read that eliminating red dye and high fructose corn syrup are helpful. She remarked "NO!" THat's the kind of response I get from her. She doesn't seem to want to help herself. Does anyone have any advice on this?? Are there other meds that might be better for her?

Deb

Debbie

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2005
Mon, 09-04-2006 - 11:46pm

My DD experienced major anger before she was put on ADD medication. She is much more even keeled now (with the exception of PMS). I think for her it was the frustration of dealing with the ADD. DD takes Strattera and she has to take hers before she goes to bed b/c it makes her sick so I'm guessing it doesn't cause insomnia so you might see about switching DD to that.

Good Luck!

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-28-2006
Tue, 09-05-2006 - 2:20am
I don't have ADD but at my highschool it was extremely common for kids with ADD to sell or give away their medication to non-ADD kids. Of the favorites were Adderall and Ritalin, for their intense, speed-like effects. After a few days of being all amped up from them, the crash is like that of basically any other speed binge - exhaustion, irritability, anger...
I don;t know if that explains your daughter's reactions, as I don;t know if the effects are the same on kids with ADD, but I'd certainly consider it as a possibility.
Avatar for heartsandroses2002
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 09-05-2006 - 9:48am

You have to remember that she is taking a drug which alters her mind. It helps her ADD symptoms, but it may be having a negative side effect that can be helped with a switch to a different med.

Many adolescents/teens who take ADD meds also often have symptoms of mood disorders as well. It's VERY common for kids who were originally diagnosed with ADD to later be diagnosed with a moood disorder. If you haven't already done so, the best, most efficient diagnosis should be sought through a neuropsychiatrist. After a full evaluation, including certain tests and family background information, the DR can make a true diagnosis.

OTOH, it may be a simple matter of taking the med everyday, whether she is in school or at work. When my dd took ADD meds a few years ago, she only took a half pill in the morning and never in the summer. She was mean and b!tchy often, but she was also just entering her teenhood. Her DR suggested that she take the meds year round, needed or not. We diagreed. That was two years ago and in those two years we dealt with severe mood swings, ADD symptoms, and impulsive behavior, but we tried to hang in there. Earlier this year she was diagnosed with a mood disorder. We tried a med for that, but very soon decided it was not for her - she was basically happy, but not very mentally alert. So, we stopped those meds. She is only taking an antidepressant and she's been doing quite well so far. With school starting again, we'll see how things pan out. I think part of this is typical teen, part reaction to the meds, and part learning how to deal with stress better. We've tried to present to my dd different methods of releasing her energy and stress. What does your dd do to relieve the daily pressures and stresses from school, work, etc?

Avatar for jupiterfit
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Registered: 05-12-2003
Tue, 09-05-2006 - 11:25am
Thanks for your perspective on the situation. Regarding stress... she is currently swimming every day because she's on the swim team. She is a "star" on her team and so she is feeling good about that for now, However, in the winter she is not in a sport. Whenever that happens things tend to take a downturn. Last winter I tried to bribe her by giving her a free membership at the fitness club that I work at. I talked to her about how much better she would feel if she exercised. But she bucked it. She just kept saying no so I let it go. I don't live anywhere close to a neuropsychiatrist. I did manage to get her to a psychologist who did the diagnosing for ADD. Now that psychologist has left her practice and she was the only one within an hour's drive. I guess I could seek out someone in Madison, WI. WHat type of mood disorders are you speaking of?
Deb
Debbie
Avatar for heartsandroses2002
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 09-05-2006 - 12:21pm

Hey Deb,

I can only speak of my experience, the research I've done and the information we've received from the various DR's we've worked with over the past 6 years relative to dd's disorders and subsequent diagnosis. I will try to give you a brief history: When dd was 10, it became more and more apparent over the years that there was something not quite right. She learned, but her social cues were off and she seemed to wax and wane in her ability to remain focused. She also had facial tics. She was originally diagnosed with tourettes syndrome, and along with that diagnosis, she manifested most of her disorder in the way of ADD and OCD type of behaviors: poor focus, repetitive actions, counting, and hoarding, along with the eye blinking and nose scrunching. All in all, the only real difficulties in school were the counting and ADD - both a huge distraction and causing her to fall behind in some classes, as well as suffering socially.

So she initially was placed on something for ADD. Later, something for the tics was added, as they had moved to her trunk and were causing her pain and nausea. Later, she became depressed and an AD was added (she was depressed as a result of the social issues and the stigma of having something wrong with her - her own perceptions). Then the ADD med was removed as we felt it wasn't really helping her and was making her tired all the time. This was over the course of 3-4 years. In the meantime, she also saw a counselor to help her develop healthy ways of dealing with her angry outbursts and depression. Her most noted stressful periods were the onset of the school year, the onset of a new sport, and a change in her daily routine. To this day, those things still cause her stress, but she handles it better now. Sometime during this period dd also developed a really bad case of impulsiveness - she basically had little to no control of her impulses and would act before thinking. She got herself into many jams because of this. So, the tic meds were added again because they were supposed to help. They did, but I think maturing helped as well. She tried to go off the AD's, but after 5 months, she said she was thinking she wanted to die. Back to the psychiatrist we went. The DR did some very loose diagnosis and said dd has a mood disorder AKA bi-polar traits. The DR said that many kids who are diagnosed as ADD early on later become diagnosed with some level of mood disprder - not sure that I buy into that, but I can see the possibility. I read "The Bi-Polar Child" and saw my dd many times throughout the book and they talk about the relationship between ADD and BP. The DR said that although dd has a relatively mild level of bp type behaviors, it is present and suggested a med. We tried it and it turned our dd into a zombie - after only one week, we stopped it. At that point, we switched DR's and the new one suggested another bp med, we tried it and dd wound up in the hospital with convulsions after only 5 days (in July). She is now only on the AD's and she is doing wonderful. She is stable, happy, has energy, and seems to be very together about planning for her future as a senior in HS, and just celebrated her 1 year anniversary with her very nice BF. She just started a new job and loves it; school just started and she loves her schedule. She's looking forward to getting her driver's license and we couldn't be happier.

I wish I could say that all of our worries were for naught and that should have just chaulked up her behavior as typical teen - we did try to do that, and we were wrong. DD definitely has some level of mood disorder and she definitely is clinically depressed. We deal with it the best we can - we try to keep her active and involved in things and we spend time with her; we encourage her to see a counselor to help relive stress or anger, but she says she doesn't want to. Her moods are worst the week before her period, so much of her behavior and moods fluctuate with her hormones. We just have to keep a close eye and talk with her about these issues so she always has a clear understanding of her actions and moods and behaviors. She has finally accepted that she will likely be on AD's her whole life and that at some point, she may have to be re-evaluated.

BP waxes and wanes like most brain disorders such as ADD, OCD, etc. They fluctuate and some people suffer more than others. There is no definitive level of any such brain disorder. If there were, diagnosing and prescribing meds would be a lot easier than it is. Two DRs could give two completely different diagnosis - you have to really know your child well and be honest with a DR you trust with whichever DR you choose to diagnose and medicate your child and that's the bottom line for me.

I wish you the best. It sounds like what your dd is going through is combination of typical teen behavior as well as just struggling with her ADD and her meds.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-05-2004
Tue, 09-05-2006 - 4:12pm

I think there are a few points to be made regarding your DD's anger:


1. Since Adderal is derived from various amphetamines and acts as an "upper" within the body and brain, there is going to be a to a certain degree what is commonly known as a comedown. Adderal specifically releases dopamine and norepineprine (sp?), while also increasing the uptake of these hormones -- simply put, you are going to feel better physically and mentally while on the drug.

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Avatar for jupiterfit
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Registered: 05-12-2003
Tue, 09-05-2006 - 6:15pm
Wolverine, this information is invaluable. Especially because you speak from experience. Your explanations are clear and very, very helpful and it will help me to understand my DD. The risk of addiction is so scary to me because I think I see an addictive personality in her. Do you know what types of medication are less addicting (if there are any)? Do they work?
Deb
Debbie
Avatar for sabrtooth
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Registered: 12-03-1999
Thu, 09-07-2006 - 1:33am

Child, your information is wrong, wrong, wrong & statements like these can dissuade uninformed people from getting themselves and/or their family members the help they need. Shame on you for continuing to foment fear of necessary medication by spreading propaganda and half truths.

First lets clarify the definition of Schedule II drugs.
(A) The drug or other substance has a high POTENTIAL for abuse.
(B) The drug or other substance has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States or a currently accepted medical use with severe restrictions.
(C) ABUSE of the drug or other substances MAY lead to severe psychological or physical dependence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act

While it is correct that Adderall and other stimulants used to treat ADHD are Schedule II drugs, federal controlled substances law affirms the essential medical value of drugs that are controlled substances. According to the federal Drug Enforcement Administration
(DEA), “controlled substances have legitimate clinical usefulness and the prescriber should not hesitate to consider prescribing them when they are indicated for the comfort and well being of patients.” (Drug Enforcement Administration. Mid-Level Practitioner’s Manual. January 1993) Therefore, your statement that "Schedule II controlled substance... mean(s) it has very few medical applications..." is blatantly false. BTW, ask someone with BiPolar disorder, cancer, diabetic neuropathy, a herniated disc, chronic pain, in childbirth, or having surgery whether or not they think these drugs have no medical applications, or if they would avoid them for fear of dependency.

Now, lets discuss your statement, "She could simply be cranky from not "getting her fix." Ironicly, most ADDers report that the meds SLOW THEM DOWN--the meds slow their racing thoughts and emotions. Persons with ADHD have a real, demonstrable deficiency in the neurotransmitter nor-epinephrine. People who HAVE this disorder do NOT become addicted or dependent because they don't have enough neurotransmitter to begin with. The problems in finding the correct dosage stems from the fact that the body is producing SOME neurotransmitter, and everyone is different. This is the same problem people have finding the correct dosage of insulin or thyriod supplement, when they are deficient.

THEN you say, "If for any reason you think this might be the case, I would highly recommend taking her off the drug entirely." Since I do not see MD behind your name, it is irresponsible for you to advise people to discontinue their PRESCRIBED medications.

Finally, after more insensitive and inflammatory rubbish, you say, "This a huge reason why I recommend (and why my doctor recommends) sporadic use: it increases the time between dosage increases and decreases the risk for addiction."
EVERY psychiatrist I know who is treating ADHD would NEVER "recommend sporadic use" any more than an endocrinologist would recommend sporadic use of thyroid supplement. The neurotransmitter that these patients are DEFICIENT in, controls impulsive behavior, their ability to concentrate & pay attention to detail, and their ability to inhibit their physical need for stimulation. Since impulse control, concentration, and the ability to control a physical need for stimulation are necessary for ANYTHING one does in life, the medication to enable one to have mental & physical control of oneself needs to be taken regularly.

Avatar for heartsandroses2002
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 09-07-2006 - 9:25am

Wow, Sabr - thanks for stopping by. I didn't want to start a board war, but you're 100% correct. I was speachless when I read wolverine's post above.

One the KEY reasons drugs like Ritalin and Adderall and the like are used in the black market is because they make those withOUT ADD speed. When these drugs are taken by a person legitimately and by a person WITH ADD, the desirable effect is that it SLOWS them down, like you said. My sister, who does NOT have ADD used to take her son's ritalin when she needed to get a lot of studying done or had to do Spring cleaning. It made her speed. For her son, it helped slow him down and focus - the appropriate reaction in a person with ADD.

I think people should only make statements preceeded by, "In my experience" or "from what I've heard" but by no means, especially when it comes to brain disorders or medications, should anyone be telling another what to do in that regard - it's irresponsible. The ONLY people making a med decision is the patient, her guardians and the DR.

Avatar for jupiterfit
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Registered: 05-12-2003
Thu, 09-07-2006 - 10:14am
Wow, I must say that I am so new to this experience with ADD meds that I tend to be rather gullible. Thanks tremendously Sabr... I needed that other side to make informed decisions. Although Woverine obviously was stating her own experience and, like you said, Hearts... she probably should have stated "from my experience." I have been going with my gut in having DD take her meds every day so far since school started. She takes 30 mg with a smoothie that contains flax for the omega 3 fatty acid. I had read that omega 3 is good for brain function and fighting inflammation in the body. I've been proceeding very cautiously with this whole medicating issue... and DD knows it. I am not one to take or have my family take medication. We tend to go the natural route. However, I think with DD I just see too much improvement to NOT have her take it. As for weekends, she works on the weekends so she should probably take the meds on the weekends too. It seems to help her motivate. So often, she would rather NOT work and tends to try to get out of it; but she really needs to work because she has racked up some debt that she needs to take care of. DD and I have had several pleasant discussion on the anger issue and some other issues this week. I am not so worried about it anymore. I told her I love it when we are all having fun as a family and that this yelling and screaming really upsets me and that although it's okay to disagree with some things, there are more acceptable ways of expressing that. She agreed. I do see some some maturity in DD this year. She is much easier to discuss things with than last year. I hate to even think about where we were last year at this time! Painful memory. She is looking toward college and said she would like to take her basic eds at the local technical college and transfer those credits to a university later on. In her words, "I'll probably just waste too much money if I go straight to college." I think that takes a lot of good judgement and maturity to recognize that in oneself.
Anyway... thanks immensely for your perspective, Hearts and Sabr, and your personal experience too Wolverine. I am less nervous about the meds now.
Deb
Debbie

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