To be strict or not to be strict?

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2005
To be strict or not to be strict?
11
Wed, 06-13-2007 - 4:22pm
OK, some of you may remember me as a married dad of 1 DD, 5 DS. Our DD (17, also oldest) now has her first "serious" bf of around 6 weeks and is totally obsessed with that (1-2 hours on phone or more if also on AIM) plus seeing him every time she goes out of the house since they've been together. 2 weeks ago she was came home smelling of alcohol (first time ever caught, probably first time she ever did it with the possible exception of sleepovers at others houses). She admitted drinking to both my wife and I (seperately, we both thought the other would flip and wanted to break the news softly to the other) and since she admitted and seemed very remourseful the was NO punishment at all. We've always been very tough on lying and wanted to back up out policy of being truthful. Last weekend she come home again smelling of alcohol and saying no one was drinking finally admitted the bf was drinking and she must now smell bc of him. We still believe she was drinking again (because he smell was so bad) and because of the lie and our belief she was still lying grounded her for the remainder of last weekend plus this coming weekend, and when that's done she may only be allowed to have people over to our neighborhood where she can't get into trouble too much.
Now my 15 yo DS has shown me pictures of DD's friends on MS holding 40 oz bottles of Hurricane (6 or 8% alcohol for $2 a bottle), including the girls who usually drive my DD around. I think he actually did this out of concern rather than trying to bury her.
I'm afraid that if I attempt to ban her from these friends it'll backfire big time, but if I allow her to go with them (after her punishment) she could be dead before summer is done.
In our drinking discussions, I've told her that drinking w the bf who is so serious so fast may lead to real bad decisions, but she says there's "no way" that anything like "that" will happen.
I too, like so many other posters are LOST! My wife's attitude is nearly what happens will happen no matter what, and she needs to learn some things for herself. I realize that the best lessons are usually learned on your own, but I don't want her to be dead (or pregnant) in the process. Any help??
btw-DD just finished jr. year and is a good student, started working 8 hour days the day after school ended last week, so she "typically" is a good girl. I also told her that she should prob get on BC just IN CASE somehow something like "that" might happen, she still insists no, and stated she wouldn't take it if we got it for her.
thx in advance for the replies!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-03-2005
Wed, 06-13-2007 - 4:52pm
Thats a tough spot. I also have a 17 yr old dd. She also has a group of friends I don't particularly like. (They drink, smoke cigarettes, use foul language alot) I wanted to ban them from coming into my home. Then my dh said something like " At least if they are at our house, you can watch them and monitor what's going on and not let any of those things happen here. If you won't let those kids over, then dd will go somewhere else where there is not good supervision and get into trouble" So maybe if you can get your dd to have the bf over to your house more often where there is less opportunity to get into trouble that would help. I also agree somewhat with your wife that by senior year you do have to allow a little more freedom to let them make choices on their own. If they make bad choices you can pull them in a little and be there to help them prepare for next year when they will be on their own at college. You really, unfortunately, can't pick their friends anymore by age 17. The more you push the more they pull away, lie, do whatever they feel like they have to do to go where they want and with whomever they want. I really do try to get dd to have people over to our house as much as I can where I can keep an eye on things.... Just my advice... Good Luck.... Sometimes there is alot of relief when you get them graduated and out the door. KWIM? I also have a 21 yr old who has turned into the most amazing girl. They all seem to go thru a little stage of rebellion/ trying typical teenage things.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2005
Wed, 06-13-2007 - 5:18pm
Yes, I agree with what you've said. My problem here is bf is not very... social, shall I say? I understand the age, I do have 6 kids, 3 of them teens. But we get "is x there?" when he calls, he's a passenger when dd is picked up and stays in car, never gets out to knock on the door and get her, which my wife has TOLD her that he should be doing as a sign of respect for both her and us (you get the picture?)
dd says she doesn't want to have bf over because he lives in a more middle class neighborhood than we do, he's in a row, we are in a single, we have nicer cars, etc she says. I tell her if you have to worry about that then he's not worth it, but I don't push that bc, again I don't want to push her further to him and away from us. I asked what can I do to make it better for people to be here, nothing is the reply.
I want to know her frds because everything I see just makes me think the worst. I agree that if they were here we could see what they were like and at least get a better idea of what's going on. Again, I don't mind freedom for my soon to be senior, but I don't want her to be a mother at 18 or worse yet, dead from dui.
This is really why I told her she needs to earn our trust again by having her friends come over here, and I don't care if she's embarrassed by her large family or her social status, or WHATEVER. Her friends need to be part of our life IF she wants to be out on her own again. She tells me that her bf is done drinking bc he doesn't want her to be grounded bc of him, but then my son shows me on myspace where he (the bf) was leaving comments about drinking 40's (40 oz of Hurricane I assume from the pictures of dd's girl frds) this weekend like last weekend on myspace. Maybe he'll stop when she's allowed out (or not), maybe her friends that drive her around don't drink (but they're on MS pictured holding the half empty bottles looking hammered).
I used to tell my kids that school work and grades were the most important thing, but recently I realized that that is only a means to the real goal. The real goal is becoming a happy, healthy (and hopefully successful) adult. Now I tell her to try to look past the next year or 2 and she if her actions are helping her reach her goal. She finished her jr year with a 3.5 gpa at a prep school, scored high on her SAT's (I forget the new sat math, lol) and like I say, she's working hard so far this summer. I guess I'm worried about this new group of friends that seems to spend most of the weekend drinking
Avatar for mjaye2002
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 06-13-2007 - 6:09pm

yep, it's a tough spot to be in.

I know that with my OWN kids (both boys) that I always told them if they ever drank somewhere, to call me and I would come get them--no questions asked, no punishment. Also, we have talked about forever that if they got caught (by police) at a party where there was drinking--even if they had not had a sip, that they would be carted off to jail with the rest of them, or, at the very least get a MIP. I have never stressed the not drinking *at all*, just told them if they wanted a drink, they had to do it in my or their dad's house. I didn't want to make alcohol the forbidden fruit. Believe me, especially with my older boy, had I *forbidden* it, then he would have done it just because. And, of course, we have talked at length about getting in a car with someone who has been drinking. (I am only a phone call away--I will always come get you.)

As far as the MS pictures go, I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in it. I'm not saying they *weren't* drinking, maybe they were, but they very well could have simply been posing, kwim? My younger son has empty liquer bottles in his room that he has gotten from his dad. Gosh, to look at it, you'd think we were lushes at our house! LOL But, they are empty and I *know* he's not the one that emptied them. :)

And I've talked about abstinence and protected sex for as long as I can remember (as well as the alcohol thing). I talk and talk and talk. Sometimes I think they just do what I ask just to get me to shut up. :)

I don't agree with the bf not coming to the door when they go out. That is just simply bad manners. Before she ever started dating, or just as she started dating, did you lay down the ground rules? Things like he has to come to the door, curfews for dates, etc.? If so, then you can simply remind her of those ground rules. But, if your daughter doesn't want to push him (to come to the door), it could get a little hairy. Either you insist that he come to the door or she can't go out OR you can let it slide. Personally, I don't like EITHER of those choices.) You could tell her either he comes to the door and at least say hi, or you will follow her out to the car so you can say hi. Since they have only been going out for 6 weeks, then it's possible that this boy will fall by the wayside sooner or later--preferably sooner, yes? lol

As far as becoming a mother at 18, well...all I can say is preach to her about birth control and condoms. I don't know what kind of relationship she has with her mom, but hopefully she and you have encouraged you dd to let you know when she needs to start bc. And that she knows that when she asks, there will be no "scenes", you will just simply take her to the dr. I know that is still leaving it up to your dd, but this is something you can't do for her, you can only help her once she has made her decisions. (I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here.)

I'm not sure how you can get her to ask her friends over. I've not ever faced that problem (I'm always trying to figure out how to make them leave!!). Perhaps you could have a cook-out or something at a neutral site--a park, or something like that. Maybe take them all swimming somewhere---pool, lake, etc. That way you could still get to know them, albeit a little slowly, but it would be better than nothing. Find something that they would like to do and then do it.

I don't know if *any* of this helps. Best wishes and good luck! :)

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2005
Wed, 06-13-2007 - 7:35pm
Much of what you say I again agree with. Her and I have always been closer than her mother with her, so the "talks" have always come from me. DD now accepts them and although doesn't look forward to them can usually speak her mind. I totally agree that when the times comes, anything can happen and that's why I wanted to get her on bc. DD doesn't even like to take an aspirin though and clearly stated that even if she had pills she wouldn't take them at all because nothing will ever happen to warrent them. IMO, DD is totally infatuated w bf and will most likely go much much further physically though. But I'm staying away from that, as much as it'll be my business if there's a baby involved, right now I need to back off.
BUT---just now, coming home a little bit ago... BF was driven over by his frd to pick something up from DD. As I'm pulling up to our driveway, DD is walking around front of car to return to our house and the frd jerks the car at her! Before I could get out of my truck they were gone. DW says BF (naturally) didn't come up to house to talk to DD, just pulled up and waited for her to come out.
As far as him being gone before too long, at this point I don't see it. She's too infatuated, and she says he's shy. He could be, or he could be a user. Either way I don't see him going anywhere soon.
Boys are def easier than girls. My 15yo is a total player, goes out with a girl but moves on after 1 or 2 dates. The girls all know it, but they seem ok with it. 2 dates is fine with me, hopefully no one is "in love" and the phsyical aspect doesn't get out of hand after 2 meetings. Not to mention some how he stays friends with most if not all of them. My 14 yo is girl clueless, still just playing sports and hanging with guys.
Anyway, my boys at least have respect for the girls and women AND their parents.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-06-2003
Wed, 06-13-2007 - 8:22pm

"when the times comes, anything can happen and that's why I wanted to get her on bc. DD doesn't even like to take an aspirin though and clearly stated that even if she had pills she wouldn't take them at all because nothing will ever happen to warrent them"

I'm not sure a gyn Dr. would do it when a 17 y/o didn't want it, but there's b/c DepoProvera that's a shot every 3 months. She wouldn't have to take a pill, you'd just have to convince her to get a shot, not that that would be easy. Not many kids like getting a shot, but if the gyn you take her to would do it, that's a possibility. I don't remember, have you ever had her to a visit with a gyn? If she hasn't ever gone, it might be time for her to go, talk with a female gyn herself, away from parents and make some of her own decisions about that. Make sure it's someone who's going to tell her about all the things that CAN happen, statistically, with facts, and let her hear some of the choices, including failure rates of condoms alone. Would be nice if the appointment happened to be at a time when a lot of teen moms were there for checkups, hehehe. Sometimes teens will listen to adults who are not their parents better than their parents, KWIM?

Just a thought.

Oh, and yeah, my DD's (all 4 of them, at varying ages), aren't ever going to be just picked up, especially in the first few months. Very disrespectful all the way around it. If guys don't want to come at least to the door and say hi, look one of us in the eyes, then they're not getting out of our driveway with the girl in tow. JMHO.

Best wishes
Sallie

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2005
Wed, 06-13-2007 - 9:02pm
Sallie---common sense when it isn't so common! thanks for that.
How can I make DD realize that this is disrepectful though??
No GYN visit yet, dw dreads the thought of taking dd, dd dreads the thought of going, and I, well, let's face reality here, no matter how tight dd and I are there absolutely has to be a line. lol. I've had talks with dw though, and she also says that yes she must deal with this now (or at least in the near near future). I totally agree about dd and dr talking in total confidence, I have always taken the position that I don't want this to happen before marriage, but with 6 kids I'm sure that at least one will not wait. I also told her that although I am willing and even encouraging her to be on bc, that in no way condones premarital sex. It just says that I am realistic, and want to be sure that dd, and in fact all my kids are safe and healthy. I actually already gave her condoms, got a box and left them in the hall closet (big enough to not notice any missing ones) she was totally embarrassed, but oh well.
Going back to coming to the door, I specifically told her last time that she would not go out the door if he tried that trick again. Unfortunately I wasn't in the house when he did it. The last night she was allowed out they pulled up out front and he direct connected her on her Nextel, "yo, we're here" and she ran out like a puppy. That was when I told her NEVER again would that happen. I've been telling her for months that I don't know her friends and I'm not happy about that. She had them over once, when her brothers went into the back yard where they were at (we have an acre, plenty of seperate seating, swings, etc--the boys were away from her group) they went out front and then they left.
anyway, I guess I have vented enough... my bottom line is, do I just let go, allow her to do as she pleases (with her promise already made and broken to not drink again) or do I make her have her friends over and tell her she's grounded, but allowed guests for a weekend?
Wife thinks finish out this weekend being grounded, then allow frds over next week and let her out whereever next weekend.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-1999
Wed, 06-13-2007 - 10:21pm

It's a tough situation you're in - be too strict and you could really alienate what sounds like a good father/daughter relationship.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2004
Thu, 06-14-2007 - 1:27am
Dadfor6, how is she getting home? Is there a vehicle involved?
To answer your post header, I believe this is one of those instances where you need to be strict; straight forward, no negotiation, line in the sand strict.
So far, this has not been an issue with my DD (16). She does attend parties where it is available. According to her, it would be easier to obtain alcohol than it would be to get cigarettes.
We have a good relationship and can usually reasonably discuss and negotiate most issues. This is one that is absolute and non-negotiable. If she drinks, she must call me to pick her up. I promise to remain silent. There will be no punishment. If this becomes frequent, there will be consequences.
If she drives, or in a vehicle with a driver who has had anything to drink, (e.g. boyfriend)she will lose her driving privileges until 18. At 18 she would then have to get her own vehicle and insurance. No 'temporary suspension' or 'grounding'. She is flat out done.
She needs to understand the seriousness of this. It affects her, her friends, and other innocent people on the road. I expect to eventually get that phone call from her. What has prevented it so far is mainly sports and her crowd. I hope when that time comes I live up to my part of the bargain.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2005
Thu, 06-14-2007 - 1:55am
Friends are driving her home. She insists that the driver was not drinking and never intended to drink because she (driver) had to drive her own bf home who lives near us and also my dd. I believed all of that the first time because she was honest right away and came totally clean. When she came home the next weekend again smelling (and a little looking) like she was drinking and then denied that ANYONE had been drinking we knew she was lying. She was driven home by the same girl again. She now admits that she was lying and the boys were drinking, but that the girls were swimming at her gf's house while the guys were off drinking elsewhere. I honestly don't know what to believe anymore. Maybe she wasn't drinking, but he must have been totally hammered for her to smell like she did from them kissing.
Anyway, I also have the call me thing going on. Haven't gotten the call yet, but I know that I can keep up my end since I didn't freak out on her the first time that she admitted drinking. She really seemed remourseful and seemed upset that she disappointed me. I literally told her that punishing her would strictly be to punish her and I didn't see the point, I thought she already realized her mistake and wouldn't do it again. Little did I know the next weekend she'd smell like alcohol again.
I also don't see the point of not allowing her to drive until she's 18 if she's driving around with people who were drinking. She'll just continue to get rides from them if that's what was going on.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-1999
Thu, 06-14-2007 - 1:43pm

It's nice to see a couple of dads on this board. I was never close to my dad since he was one of those "yell first, ask questions later" kind of guys and my DH is just like that to his DD, who consequently sneaks around and never tells him anything.

The drinking thing is just so hard. My DD is 18, just graduated from h.s., honor student, athlete. I was pretty surprised when I found out last summer that she had tried alcohol a couple of times. I know her friends and they are all the honor roll "good kids" that every parent would dream of having and, accd. to her, they all drink and she is one of the ones who drinks the least. I know I can't keep her from drinking (although I wonder how they are getting it) so I tried to emphasize no drinking & driving and no getting in a car w/ someone who is drinking. A couple of years ago, 2 girls at her school were killed by being in a car w/ a drunk driver and I hope that made enough of an impression on her that she wouldn't be that stupid.

As far as the BC goes, I don't understand why your DW wouldn't want to take her to a gyn just for a checkup. I just took DD to the pediatrician (they told me the last visit, now she has to change to an adult DR) for the shots and to fill out the forms she needs for college and the dr suggested that she should go to a gyn for an exam now. She doesn't have a BF (never had one) so I'm 99% sure she has never had sex, so I was kind of surprised.

As far as the coming to the door, I always said at least at the beginning, the boy should come to the door to say hi so I could at least meet him. I wasn't going to interrogate him. The year, she was doing a group project for school and one of the boys picked her up and came & rang the doorbell. She said to him "I thought you would just beep" and he said "I don't do that." Of course, she thought he was such a heartthrob, unfortunately he was going out w/ her girlfriend at the time. So girls are impressed when they find a boy who has good manners. Too bad this guy didn't learn this from his parents.

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