College - Motivation
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| Wed, 09-13-2006 - 4:17pm |
I see alot of posts regarding parental worry that teens will not get into universities based on grades, etc. Alot of pushing the kids in that direction, and I'm wondering whether this comes from: the kids or the parents. What is the motivation for your kids to go to college? Are they motivated by you, specific career goals, or just lack of anything else they can think of?
The reason I ask is that in my area, I see the pendulum clearly swinging the other way. No longer does a college degree guarantee more money. In fact, dh worked very hard while working full time to obtain his degree, but he makes a lot less money than his software engineer counterparts, most of whom do not have any degree at all. I've spoken with other parents about this and the general propensity among us is, "let's not tell the kids about this." There are alot of other jobs that do not require a university degree and can have great money potential: plumber, broker/realtor, ultrasound technician. Obviously, they require trade school but not college degrees. Increasingly, university costs are becoming prohibitive and let's face it, if the monetary rewards are not going to be there (examples: teachers, and some PhD's!) how can you justify the cost?
Opinions please: do you insist on college, and if so why?

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A teacher with a master's degree makes less money than a sales clerk at the Home Depot. What do you think now?
This certainly isn't true where we live. Home Depot advertises that they pay "up to" $15.00/hr., which for a 40-hr. week (which most of their employees don't get) adds up to $31,200/yr. A teacher w/ a Master's Degree earns at least $40,000 for less than a full year of work. And it's funny how everybody thinks it's so easy to get a job at Home Depot. My DH got hurt on his previous job, which was installing and refinishing hardwood floors and he could no longer do the physical work, so he applied there. Based on his over 20 years experience, he thought he might get hired to work in their floor dept. or something, but he didn't even get an interview. He ended up working in a similar type of store which is not a chain but privately owned, selling and matching paint and stains. The good part is that they are not open nights or Sundays, so his hours are better. He actually has a bachelor's degree in nursing and a Master's Degree in Marine Biology, so some might think he wasted his degrees, but I'm sure the education helped him in some way. For ex, I didn't know that part of selling paints and stains is knowing the chemicals that are in them, how they will react, etc, keeping up on hazardous materials, and a lot of other things.
My DD, who is a senior, wants to be a nurse, so of course she has to go to college. My ex suggested that she go to a 2-yr. collge, get a job and then try to get the hospital to pay for the 4-yr. degree. I would rather have her go to a 4-yr. college now because I think it's really hard to work and go to school and why do it if you don't really have to? I know that he got out of the Army and went to work at the Post Office like his father. He could have gone to college for free, but dropped out, so he should know better. He makes pretty good money and has good benefits, but his ability to change jobs is very limited. I think that after you have a degree, unless the field requires very specialized knowledge like nursing, the subject matter doesn't matter that much because a lot of employers just want someone who has a certain level of education.
My SD is a junior now and a couple of years ago, she was saying that she wanted to be an EMT. Her DF started out saying that she should graduate from college first, then go for the EMT training. Now to me, that would just be a waste of the tuition money, esp. as she isn't that good of a student. I told him that my friend's sister started out as an EMT and then later on went back to college to become a nurse. Now she has switched to thinking that she wants to be a teacher, another career that requires college.
If I had a child who really didn't want to go to college, I wouldn't push them, but they would have to have a plan. My nephew was thinking about being an auto mechanic and I was surprised to find out that the school is actually very complicated now because of all the computers in cars and that the mechanics make a lot of money. If they have a trade that's going to allow them to support themselves, that's great. But w/ just a high school education, they probably wouldn't make enough money.
LOL, Deb! All I know is that my sister's landlord, who has a master's degree and is an unemployed teacher (currently raising her kids and her dh owns a very successful business - again, no degree to do that) told her that she would make the same as my sister was making at Home Depot, which by the way wasn't even $15 an hour. This didn't sound right to me, either. Maybe she was talking about 'starting' salary. Maybe she's specialized, like in Special Education. Don't have all the details, sorry.
I'm just trying to make the point, that most especially with teachers, a degree does not equal good pay. I know quite a few brokers who make 10 times what a teacher does with no degree. Of course, there is alot to be said for doing what you love...
PS: My dd is 25yo, a Chicago hs teacher for 2 years, & is making $42,000 with a BFA. Don't think Home Depot is paying that to sales clerks.
http://www.cps-humanresources.org/Text/Careers_txt/salary_txt.htm
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We did the 'elite university' with our first and he promptly failed. In retrospect, why did we think a previously unmotivated kid who only got in because of test scores was suddenly going to become motivated because he was in college? He was very much like the unmotivated stepson in another post
Second son didnt get in the elite university and instead chose one that is 'lower tier'. I was disappointed; he is capable of so much more. I felt hed undershot because of his disappointment with not being accepted at his first choice
Then school began and a few light bulbs went off. He appears to be cruising, just like in high school(no grades yet-I may be on the board screaming in a few weeks)Everything is easy, acc/to him. One class has optional labs/lectures and online quizes. He has neither attended the labs/lectures nor read the text but has a 88 at this point and the quiz can be retaken for an even higher grade.
THIS IS HIS KIND OF SCHOOL!!
He will most likely stick it out and get the magical piece of paper in 4 years
Money wise? It turns my stomach to think Im paying such an absurd amount for him to review material he already knows
But it sure beats the money I threw away on the elite school when we had to withdraw DS1 mid term; at least he will come away with credits
The 4.0 for teh elite college may work for some but not my kids. Two dont have the motivation and the youngest doesnt have the skill set
Oh, well. I think I get now that its about finding a match for your kid whoever they are and wherever they fall-just took me two kids worth!
My DH and I certainly expect that our DD15 will go to college, and she expects it too. What kind of college, and what degree, she doesn't know yet (just beginning 10th grade, so she has time). My DH and I have ongoing discussions about the relative values of different college or university degrees - I went to an 'elite' univ., he went to a state school. He feels he got a crappy educ. at the state school, but I also think somr of that was him, and his level of motivation while there. I loved college, but I could also see how you could get a perfectly good, even excellent, education at a less elite, and less expensive school.
It's early to say for DS7, but I expect he'll go to college too.
As for "is it worth it?" I guess it depends somewhat on what career you want. In my field, an advanced degree and/or certification is the road to higher salary. Demonstrated experience and skill can sometimes help sidestep a college degree, but there seems to be a limit to how far you can get.
And it's not just $$, it's also flexibility. To a certain degree, the education or certification opens doors and gives you more flexibility once you get into a field.
And, I love what I do, which helps alot!
But I also agree that there are some fields where a trade school, or on-the-job training is what you need and not the degree. The argument that a store clerk can make more than a teacher is interesting - I guess it depends on where you live, and how effective the teacher's union has been in negotiating contracts! In most places, the starting salary for a teacher may be relatively low, but they have pay steps based on seniority and advanced degrees. If a store clerk made $20 an hour (which would be high, I think, for that position) AND was able to get a full-time position, it would be around $40,000 a year max. A teacher might start lower than that, but would probably advance more over the life of the career.
The most important thing is helping a kid/teen find their own motivation, of course!
Sue
While I agree that in the trades you don't need a college degree and you do need training of some sort, I do not see how a software engineer can get away without a degree. Around here (MA) that is unheard of. I do think, though, that with the costs of college getting so high that people will start to look at alternatives. I mean a plumber, electrician, etc can make easily as much money (sometimes more) than a lot of degreed people.
My oldest is in high school (freshman) this year; and in this town, the pendulum is not swinging at all. College is the primary goal for the vast majority here; in fact, we had a senior become accepted at every IVY league school this year. Actually, Harvard accepted 2 of our seniors.
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