College - Motivation

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
College - Motivation
24
Wed, 09-13-2006 - 4:17pm

I see alot of posts regarding parental worry that teens will not get into universities based on grades, etc. Alot of pushing the kids in that direction, and I'm wondering whether this comes from: the kids or the parents. What is the motivation for your kids to go to college? Are they motivated by you, specific career goals, or just lack of anything else they can think of?

The reason I ask is that in my area, I see the pendulum clearly swinging the other way. No longer does a college degree guarantee more money. In fact, dh worked very hard while working full time to obtain his degree, but he makes a lot less money than his software engineer counterparts, most of whom do not have any degree at all. I've spoken with other parents about this and the general propensity among us is, "let's not tell the kids about this." There are alot of other jobs that do not require a university degree and can have great money potential: plumber, broker/realtor, ultrasound technician. Obviously, they require trade school but not college degrees. Increasingly, university costs are becoming prohibitive and let's face it, if the monetary rewards are not going to be there (examples: teachers, and some PhD's!) how can you justify the cost?

Opinions please: do you insist on college, and if so why?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Thu, 09-14-2006 - 11:46am

A teacher with a master's degree makes less money than a sales clerk at the Home Depot. What do you think now?

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-1999
Thu, 09-14-2006 - 3:20pm

This certainly isn't true where we live. Home Depot advertises that they pay "up to" $15.00/hr., which for a 40-hr. week (which most of their employees don't get) adds up to $31,200/yr. A teacher w/ a Master's Degree earns at least $40,000 for less than a full year of work. And it's funny how everybody thinks it's so easy to get a job at Home Depot. My DH got hurt on his previous job, which was installing and refinishing hardwood floors and he could no longer do the physical work, so he applied there. Based on his over 20 years experience, he thought he might get hired to work in their floor dept. or something, but he didn't even get an interview. He ended up working in a similar type of store which is not a chain but privately owned, selling and matching paint and stains. The good part is that they are not open nights or Sundays, so his hours are better. He actually has a bachelor's degree in nursing and a Master's Degree in Marine Biology, so some might think he wasted his degrees, but I'm sure the education helped him in some way. For ex, I didn't know that part of selling paints and stains is knowing the chemicals that are in them, how they will react, etc, keeping up on hazardous materials, and a lot of other things.

My DD, who is a senior, wants to be a nurse, so of course she has to go to college. My ex suggested that she go to a 2-yr. collge, get a job and then try to get the hospital to pay for the 4-yr. degree. I would rather have her go to a 4-yr. college now because I think it's really hard to work and go to school and why do it if you don't really have to? I know that he got out of the Army and went to work at the Post Office like his father. He could have gone to college for free, but dropped out, so he should know better. He makes pretty good money and has good benefits, but his ability to change jobs is very limited. I think that after you have a degree, unless the field requires very specialized knowledge like nursing, the subject matter doesn't matter that much because a lot of employers just want someone who has a certain level of education.

My SD is a junior now and a couple of years ago, she was saying that she wanted to be an EMT. Her DF started out saying that she should graduate from college first, then go for the EMT training. Now to me, that would just be a waste of the tuition money, esp. as she isn't that good of a student. I told him that my friend's sister started out as an EMT and then later on went back to college to become a nurse. Now she has switched to thinking that she wants to be a teacher, another career that requires college.

If I had a child who really didn't want to go to college, I wouldn't push them, but they would have to have a plan. My nephew was thinking about being an auto mechanic and I was surprised to find out that the school is actually very complicated now because of all the computers in cars and that the mechanics make a lot of money. If they have a trade that's going to allow them to support themselves, that's great. But w/ just a high school education, they probably wouldn't make enough money.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-21-2006
Thu, 09-14-2006 - 5:11pm
How much does a sales clerk at Home Depot make? I figured about 25,000 tops. A teacher with a masters about 50,000 or more? I'm just guessing. Do you know? i may be applying at Home depot tomorrow.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Thu, 09-14-2006 - 5:27pm

LOL, Deb! All I know is that my sister's landlord, who has a master's degree and is an unemployed teacher (currently raising her kids and her dh owns a very successful business - again, no degree to do that) told her that she would make the same as my sister was making at Home Depot, which by the way wasn't even $15 an hour. This didn't sound right to me, either. Maybe she was talking about 'starting' salary. Maybe she's specialized, like in Special Education. Don't have all the details, sorry.

I'm just trying to make the point, that most especially with teachers, a degree does not equal good pay. I know quite a few brokers who make 10 times what a teacher does with no degree. Of course, there is alot to be said for doing what you love...

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2005
Thu, 09-14-2006 - 6:31pm
You are so right about there being alot to said for doing what you love. I worked in a very fast paced manufacturing company in middle mgmt. I stayed sick 1/2 of the time b/c of the stress and I rarely saw my kids but I got paid well. That job required a Bachelor's degree. I'm now teaching and make around 1/3 of what I made before + I had to pay to obtain the MBA required and it was worth b/c I got to spend some with my kids before they grew up and flew away. Of course, I don't know how much longer I can afford to teach. I'm hoping to be able to pick up a part-time job this spring so that I can continue to teach. The kids are "adults" now and don't need mom near as much. I've been asked twice over the past 6 years to go back. They've offered a nicer salary but they haven't managed to come up with a solution for the stress and the long hours and until they do - it's not worth it.
Avatar for sabrtooth
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-1999
Thu, 09-14-2006 - 7:41pm
Well, maybe if the Home Depot was in La Jolla & the school was in Whitefish Bay...
PS: My dd is 25yo, a Chicago hs teacher for 2 years, & is making $42,000 with a BFA. Don't think Home Depot is paying that to sales clerks.
http://www.cps-humanresources.org/Text/Careers_txt/salary_txt.htm
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 09-14-2006 - 7:50pm

<>

We did the 'elite university' with our first and he promptly failed. In retrospect, why did we think a previously unmotivated kid who only got in because of test scores was suddenly going to become motivated because he was in college? He was very much like the unmotivated stepson in another post

Second son didnt get in the elite university and instead chose one that is 'lower tier'. I was disappointed; he is capable of so much more. I felt hed undershot because of his disappointment with not being accepted at his first choice

Then school began and a few light bulbs went off. He appears to be cruising, just like in high school(no grades yet-I may be on the board screaming in a few weeks)Everything is easy, acc/to him. One class has optional labs/lectures and online quizes. He has neither attended the labs/lectures nor read the text but has a 88 at this point and the quiz can be retaken for an even higher grade.

THIS IS HIS KIND OF SCHOOL!!

He will most likely stick it out and get the magical piece of paper in 4 years

Money wise? It turns my stomach to think Im paying such an absurd amount for him to review material he already knows

But it sure beats the money I threw away on the elite school when we had to withdraw DS1 mid term; at least he will come away with credits

The 4.0 for teh elite college may work for some but not my kids. Two dont have the motivation and the youngest doesnt have the skill set

Oh, well. I think I get now that its about finding a match for your kid whoever they are and wherever they fall-just took me two kids worth!

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-18-2005
Thu, 09-14-2006 - 8:18pm

My DH and I certainly expect that our DD15 will go to college, and she expects it too. What kind of college, and what degree, she doesn't know yet (just beginning 10th grade, so she has time). My DH and I have ongoing discussions about the relative values of different college or university degrees - I went to an 'elite' univ., he went to a state school. He feels he got a crappy educ. at the state school, but I also think somr of that was him, and his level of motivation while there. I loved college, but I could also see how you could get a perfectly good, even excellent, education at a less elite, and less expensive school.

It's early to say for DS7, but I expect he'll go to college too.

As for "is it worth it?" I guess it depends somewhat on what career you want. In my field, an advanced degree and/or certification is the road to higher salary. Demonstrated experience and skill can sometimes help sidestep a college degree, but there seems to be a limit to how far you can get.

And it's not just $$, it's also flexibility. To a certain degree, the education or certification opens doors and gives you more flexibility once you get into a field.

And, I love what I do, which helps alot!

But I also agree that there are some fields where a trade school, or on-the-job training is what you need and not the degree. The argument that a store clerk can make more than a teacher is interesting - I guess it depends on where you live, and how effective the teacher's union has been in negotiating contracts! In most places, the starting salary for a teacher may be relatively low, but they have pay steps based on seniority and advanced degrees. If a store clerk made $20 an hour (which would be high, I think, for that position) AND was able to get a full-time position, it would be around $40,000 a year max. A teacher might start lower than that, but would probably advance more over the life of the career.

The most important thing is helping a kid/teen find their own motivation, of course!

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-21-2006
Thu, 09-14-2006 - 9:03pm
It has always been my opinion that teachers are way under paid, our schools are under funded, and this country should be ashamed. You should hear me every time the shuttle blasts off. Big waste that is when our children are lacking in education. On the other hand if teachers made an overly large six figure income than people would get in it for the money not the love of teaching. My husband has a teaching degree but works in software because there was more money there. My stepson is a senior at Notre Dame this year and is very gifted in mathmatics. He has been approached by NASA already but wants to be a math professor. He'll be poor but happy we think. Sorry for rambling but our country's lack of interest in educating our children is a big pet peeve of mine.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-01-2003
Fri, 09-15-2006 - 7:08am

While I agree that in the trades you don't need a college degree and you do need training of some sort, I do not see how a software engineer can get away without a degree. Around here (MA) that is unheard of. I do think, though, that with the costs of college getting so high that people will start to look at alternatives. I mean a plumber, electrician, etc can make easily as much money (sometimes more) than a lot of degreed people.

My oldest is in high school (freshman) this year; and in this town, the pendulum is not swinging at all. College is the primary goal for the vast majority here; in fact, we had a senior become accepted at every IVY league school this year. Actually, Harvard accepted 2 of our seniors.