Concerned about 18yr daughter (long)
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| Sun, 04-23-2006 - 10:03am |
Is this behavior far from typical? What can her father and I do if anything? She seems to have no direction and is very rude to her father and I. There seems to be a total lack of respect towards us and her responsibilities.
Our 18 yr old daughter is an only child. We believe we have spoiled her rotten. As she was growing up we had the best of intentions regarding punishments and rewards. I believe part of the current situation is because my husband and I were usually unable to follow through with punishments. (She would put up fusses and cry or complain to the point we would give in.) I suppose you could say we were pushovers.
Anyway, here we are at 18 going on 19. She managed to graduate high school. She is a very bright girl, she just didn't apply herself. (The school situation is a dissappointment to my entire family. Especially my mother and father who are very well educated, basically intellectual snobs.) Our daughter did sign up for some classes at the local college last year. We don't know how she really did becuase of privacy laws and she certainly is not honest about how she did. At the moment she is not attending college, although she says she wants to take a class or two this year.
She does work. Makes pretty good money for a teen. She currently works at a place that I used to work, so my firends keep an eye out on her for me. She knows that it is very important to me that she behave herself there because I am in management in another location/divison. I am told that she is a wonderful person. They love her at work and tell me that it is so funny to have her around becuase she is so much like me.
She has totally screwed up her credit. I helped her to establish her own credit. When we started out it was explained over and over again how important it is to maintain good credit. Her first checking account quickly became a disaster. Because it was entirely in her name the bank will not discuss her account with me. What upsets me so much is that the screw ups were not accidental, they are intentional. For example, she knows when she has no money in her account but will use it anyway thereby incurring substantial fees. I know when this happens because the notices come to the house. I don't open her mail, I just know what they look like.
She managed to open a number of credit card accounts and she constantly refuses to make her payments on time. We have started to receive numerous phone calls from these companies. They will call and ask for her but they won't tell us anything, again due to privacy laws. Usually the calls come when she is not home but the other day she was home and I answered the phone. When I called her to the phone she picked up the extension, made sure I had hung up and walked into the other room where she "accidentally" hung up on the caller!!
The bills come to the house and when I give them to her she leaves the laying around unopened. When I insist she open them she yells at me to leave her alone or she yells "I will, I will."
Another big problem is the car she has. My husband and I purchased the car for her a few years ago while she was still in HS. The down payment came from her college funds. The agreement was, (this is before the credit card accounts were opened and before the checking account became a big problem,) that she would make monthly payments to us. I think we have received maybe 2 payments in the past few years. We couldn't take the car away because she needed it to get to school and work. (School buses and public transportation were not an option.) My husband and I also pay for the insurance.
She keeps promising to make the payments to us but doesn't. We told her in the past that the car loan would have to go in her name so that is one reason why it is so important that she maintain her credit. Now it will probably be next to impossible to get that loan into her name or if it is possible the interest will be way tooo high. We really need to get the loan out of our name.
She has been spending the nights at her boyfriend's house for a year. Her bedroom is a holding room for her clothes and junk. She comes home early in the mornings to get ready for work and use MY computer. Originally she couldn't wait to move out of our house because her father and I were driving her "crazy." We refused to give her "privacy." She always complains that we are too involved in her business. (She has told us that because she was an only child we focused too much of our attention on her.) We tried to do as the experts said, stay in tune with her on-line use, require that she keep us posted on her whereabouts, etc, etc. So she moved out to live with a friend. I even went with her to buy things for the house. We had a great time. The set up did not last. She has never been clear on why. She came home one day crying her eyes out about how she missed us. Months later, when I kept asking her why she did not bring her mattress home she said the "real" reason she "moved" home was because her friend's father sold the house.
She says she loves us, but doesn't like us. She feels close enough to me to aske me questions about sex which makes me think there is hope for us. Is this stupid reasoning?
I do know that how she reacts to me is similar to the way I react to my father. I adore my dad but he can be so annoying when he wants to know about everything in my life. I find that I give very short answers or try to redirect the conversations. Hmmm, much like how it goes with my daughter. Except she will SCREAM and YELL at me and get very nasty sounding. I defintely don't do that to my dad. (Maybe because I'm quite a bit older?) I think I was able to escape many of the early teen years away from my folks becuase I was away at boarding school.
Arrrrgggh. So much more info I could share if needed. If this is just a typical "have to live life experiences" situation I could live with that. I know I was probably not the most responsible person financially when I was in my 20s. It is just that it took me 7 yrs to get everything fixed and now I am fanatical about my finances. I just wanted her to learn from my mistakes.

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well, you know what you did wrong, you see the result is an extremely immature young adult (in some ways) and the question is: what do you want to do?
the typical response would be, to sit her down, and tell her that since she is finished with HS and is working, and has no intention of going to college, then she has to either start paying rent to you (the rent amount being something that makes sense - like how much would a one-bedroom with bathroom and kitchen rights cost in your area, remembering that she is not paying any additional household bills), or she has 30 days to move out on her own (and *on her own* means on her own, she needs to find an apartment, find 'stuff', etc). sometimes - this IS the way to go.
but you need to be strong, and not co sign any leases,etc
on the good side - it sounds like your dd is basically doing ok work wise. not everyone is cut out for college.
as far as your dd learning from YOUR mistakes - first of all, no offence but it sounds like she is learning from you (vis a vis your relationship with your own parent) and secondly - that is not the way to go - in order for her to grow up, she has to make her OWN mistakes. the problem is - that you aren't making her deal with the consequences, you keep picking up the pieces and covering her behind.
its not easy ( i am dealing with my own 19 YO). one more thing - there is NO WAY that i would allow my child to yell at me, in my house. i know that she is 18, but you need to lay down the ground rules here.
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They don't! I think that is something most of us discover when our kids hit late teens or early 20s. And it sucks!!!!!!
I agree with pp; she is successful at her job. She may move along just as quick or quicker than the kid next door with the degree; it happens more than the media would like us to believe.
But....it's time for her to pay rent or move out.
We went through this with our oldest and we agreed we would pay for school if he ever decided to return.
He is taking a couple classes at a time while working and supporting himself and we gladly pay for those. I have no idea what grades he is getting unless he tells us. Unless they're full time students, they arent 'ours' anymore and yeah, that's hard to let go of
DH had a cow that he couldnt deduct the tuition for those classes on taxes.
Oh well
My oldest moved in with a friend and paid 1/2 the rent. Then he and GF moved in with two people they barely knew; said people were selling drugs so they moved out and in with GFs mom. They didnt feel they could sign another lease until that one was up(apparently other roommates have been paying with the original couple-we've never heard otherwise)
That will be in June so they are apartment hunting now. Oh, my, what a different young man he is now compared to just a year and a half ago. They are scouring apartments galore-noting rent, utilities provided and car spaces. They have looked out of town and computed gas mileage and costs and figured how much more they could pay to stay in town......
Granted, this is my oldest who was responsible with money to begin with but not THIS responsible. If DS2 who is 18 and sounds like your dd moneywise learns half as fast Ill be glad
But you do have to challenge them, let them fall, and be willing to accept less than you would like to (sell her car buy a cheaper one so you lose less or say you'll pay for it in lieu of Xmas and Birthday for X number of years)
Hi and thanks for posting.
I agree with your reply. I have wanted to do some of your suggestions. The TOUGH LOVE business and all.
When she was younger it was mainly a fear for her safety factor, these days this is not really an excuse for me to delay any longer.
As for the yelling at her father and I we have never indicated we were willing to tolerate this. In the past we have punished her for this behavior, to no avail. (Sent to her room she managed to climb out the window, that kind of stuff.) The little spanking we did never worked well. She is a pretty strong girl and would resist.
I am hoping that along with really getting tough on the finances she will grow out of the rest of her behaviors. She KNOWS right from wrong, I have observed her in public in the adult world without her knowing I have been watching and she is 100% more mature than many of the people her age and even slightly older. (I work in a retail environment and oh my goodness, the behavior is often atrocious. Cursing, disrespect for authority, and so on.) I was always worried about her behavior towards her father and I showing up in her outside of home life and have been told by everyone I know that she does not behave this way in public and that means she had the right teachings and just needs to mature.
I hope so.
PS. By the way, how do some parents manage to raise the "perfect" kids you hear about?
What did those parents do differently? Or maybe the "perfect" kids aren't as perfect as some make them out to be? Like perhaps the kids are really unhappy deep down? or they have a secret addiction of some kind? You know the kind I'm talking about, top grades, cheerleaders, musical talent galore, volunteer for every cause, etc. etc.
I provided much love, showed interest, remain married to same man for over 20 yrs, read, fine foods, enjoy art, held off on advancing my career until dd graduated so that I wouldn't take time from her, we are not druggies, live in a "nice neighborhood", travel....
There are kids out there that don't have 1/2 the luxuries (sp?) of some kids yet manage to grow into productive young adults.
I don't think the EXPERTS are very expert. It seems to be a hit or miss thing to me.
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I don't think 'luxuries' or the lack there of necessarily predicts who will become a productive young adult.
If there is any relation, I would say it is the opposite of what you are indicating. Those with more luxuries have less need or incentive to work for things or set goals for themselves. If these privledged kids always have something to fall back on (ie, it doesn't matter if they make their car payment or not, because mommy/daddy will) they never will grow into productive adults, because they don't need too.
As other posters have said, force your dd to take responsibility for herself and stop enabling her spoiled behavior. As hard as it is - let her fall flat on her face (and encourage her to pick herself back up). Above all, let her feel the consequences of her choices and actions.
Good luck!
Becca
Speaking as one of the ex-perfect kids (1st out of 988 my freshman year, in 22 HS activities, honors/AP, pianist, First Class Girl Scout (now kinda like 'gold'), etc.), I didn't have any addictions. I never did anything illegal (drinking, drugs, sex) as a teen. I wasn't addicted to anything but my drive to make it to college, where I really wanted to get an MS in physics, and I did; I never cared if I 'used' it; I was then prepared to become a mom. I do have a career; I'm not super successful, make loads less than peers (with less degrees), but I'm happy, have a great family, and so far, have a good teen as well who seems to be very like me (not as grade-conscious as I was, but does fine considering he's a year young for his grade). Not sure how this happens; I think it's a personality thing of the kid, not the parent. JMHO.
Sue
well. you raised some interesting points.
first of all - there is no such thing as 'perfect' - there are no perfect lives, marriages, homes, children. we may look at someone else's kids and think that they are perfect but everyone has their issues with their kids. you know - my friend always complains that her dd's are never home, always at their friend's house. i complain that my ds has no friends. she complains that they spend all her money on clothing; i complain that my ds never wants to buy clothing. so --- don't think that other people are perfect or even near-perfect
secondly - what "experts" advised you to spoil your child and not let her ever pay her way?
and lastly - there is no 'magic potion' for raising good kids. but i think that the problem that you (and I, and many other parents) have/had is that we want our kids to 'be happy' all the time. if our kids cry - we give in. if they whine - we give in. if they have chores to do and they don't feel like doing - we let them go. if they have HW to do and they don't feel like doing it - we complain that their teachers are too tough. when a kid comes over to play - we let our kids "rule" and don't make them share their stuff, and so on and so on. and then we end up with kids who don't know how to get along in 'real life'.
its definately not a 'hit or miss' thing. USUALLY - barring any severe emotional/family issues - when parents are consistent and tough with their kids, when kids have secure and stable homes (note: this does not mean wealthy or luxourious), then the kids grow up to be productive adults who get along with others. when kids have chores to do - then they learn a valuable lesson in cooperation and not getting 'everything for nothing'. and so on ...
look - i am sorry about your dd - but you still have a chance to fix things. she does have some good qualities - you just need to get tougher with her. if you and your dh can't work this out on your own - then consider some parenting classes so that you will form a strong united front.
good luck
I agree, Becca. Mom and dad have enabled this girl all her life and she knows they will pick up the pieces wherever they fall. Both my DD and DS are rather indulged and it often seems they don't appreciate all they have. My guess is that they actually don't. They haven't learned to appreciate the luxuries they have because they have been pretty much 'handed' to them. They haven't had to work for or earn much on their own. I often get disappointment when I see their 'nice' things tossed carelessly around, lost or broken because they don't place the value on things that perhaps they would have had they paid for these things themselves.
Another thing to consider diamond, is that you DD seems to be successful and responsible with her employment. Your friends say she is 'wonderful' to have around at work. Could it be that it's because she knows what is expected and required of her and what the outcome will be should she not perform her job duties as required?
It seems to me that she is 'living up to the expectations' set for her in both instances. I also agree that some tough love, as well as a walk down the reality road, is in order.
Julie
Hi diamond,
There is no such thing as a perfect teen, only some parents have their heads buried deep in the sand and like to think that their teens are perfect. Also, from what I've observed, some parents are great "sales" people for their kids. In sales, you obviously emphasize the positive and de-emphasize the negative. Actually, more likely, the positive is "greatly exaggerated". LOL.
It really does depend alot on the kid, but good parenting helps imo. As an example, I have a dear friend who has always spoiled her two boys rotten. They are both intelligent boys who have always done well in school. They are involved in band, and her oldest, a senior, has a 3.8 GPA and is headed to a UC school next fall. They have always had the latest toys, gadgets and whatever their little heart desires even if it meant mom dressed in the same clothes, it seemed, year after year. They are not particularly well off, but their kids want for nothing. They were never asked to do chores. She used to bring them their breakfast in bed most mornings! The oldest, as I've said, is doing well so far, although he has had one girlfriend all through high school and to me, he seems like a very insecure kid. So basically she did alot of what you did but with good results. However, I am waiting to see what happens with son #2, a 10th grader. I think she will have very different results, because he is a very different kid. Read this as lazy. It really is a combination of parenting and the personality of your kid. Good luck, tough love is the answer for you....
Wow! I think you must have read the archives and stole this from 2 1/2 years ago when I had all these same thoughts!!!!
I was really in a funk and I remember the pain. I felt gypped that I had given so much and seemed to be receiving so little.
I too remember feeling like DH and I may have given too much but, hey, the parents of the successful kids seemed to have given even more and Im betting thats what youre seeing too. You expected your dd to make car payments; we expected half the cost from ours and the cars we purchased were used. Your dd and my sons work at after school jobs
I know full well that many of those 'perfect' kids dont work and are handed brand new automobiles without any strings attached.
So yeah, we went the gamut from worrying we gave too much to worrying we gave too little
Truly, it is more about them than us and I don't know that, barring abuse or neglect, there is a whole lot we parents end up determining
My oldest has grown tremendously in the past 2 years. He hasnt taken the path I would have chosen for him but he is a wonderful young man who works hard and, like your dd,is seen as a huge asset by his employers. He is doing college a few classes at a time because he sees the need to make more money(a little help from the GF) He still HATES school although he does find online classes more palatable. On Easter, for the first time, he spoke of a bachelors degree instead of an associates.
He just turned 21 and yep, hes 'behind' his peers who are finishing up their third year of college right now; he probably has about a year and a half of credits instead
Oh, well, it's just not as big a deal as it was 2 years ago; you will get there too!
There was a time when mine were tiny and all I wanted for them was to be happy and healthy. I think we lose that somewhere along the way. Our society is so competitive and bragging about grades and starting forwards and admittance to Ivy League schools has become standard conversation.
My oldest's choice to take the less traveled path, along with my youngest's severe LDs, has finally gotten me back to "healthy and happy"
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