DD Would Like Advice ...

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
DD Would Like Advice ...
30
Wed, 01-10-2007 - 12:14pm

... from moms other than me.

Some of you may remember my post from 2-3 months ago about her 16yo friend with the super-strict parents. At the time, friend was not going to be allowed to go to either the Homecoming game or Homecoming dance because 'teenage pregnancy is on the rise, especially in California". We happen to live in California and DD's friend sat home on Homecoming night, as she does every night of her life -- unless she goes out with her parents somewhere. She is not allowed to IM or go live on her PC because 'chats can be intercepted', so friend is only allowed e-mail.

Things have not gotten any better for friend. She was not allowed to go with us to the Haunted Hayride (even though I was going to be there), any football game, dance, or party -- not even the 100% chaperoned all-girl Sweet 16 ice-skating party last month. In other words, friend does NOTHING out side of school and a VERY few school-related activities. Mom accompanies friend and participates in those few activities friend is allowed -- she sat in the theater a few rows back at "Pirates II" over the summer when a group got together to see it, painted the women's shelter right along with her for community service, ... well, you get the picture.

The latest is that friend got into serious trouble when she tried to plead her case about attending dances -- and was threatened with homeschooling if she brings it up again. Dad says dances are just an 'excuse for kids to get together to do drugs and have sex', and that friend didn't 'know what she was talking about' when friend said 'NO, it's not! We just want to hang out with our friends and dance'. Dad then tells friend that her 'friends don't care about you, I DO.' Needless to say, this is one sad and unhappy 16yo girl.

DD is outraged by what she perceives as a serious injustice against her friend -- and also feels insulted by dad's insinuation that she, as this girls friend, does not care about her. DD thinks she will be able to convince friends' parents to give friend more freedom, or would at least like to try. When friend was not allowed to go on the Haunted Hayride, I called mom and didn't reach her so left a message asking her if she would please reconsider her decision and let her DD go with us, that I would be there ... etc. I also apologized for stepping out of line, and explained that my DD was really hoping her DD could go. Mom never called me back. That alone says it all to me.

I told DD that her friend was not being abused or neglected and there wasn't much I could do about somebody's else child, that friends parents' obviously feel they are acting in the best interest of their DD, but imo, they aren't doing her any favors and that is ultimately going to backfire on them. BUT, not my place to try and change that. I happen to feel it is a shame friends' parents don't trust her when they haven't even given her the opportunity to show that she really can be trusted but again, nothing I can do about that.

Anyway, DD would like some thoughts, opinions and/or advice from other parents. DD is very close this girl and while she offers her as much support as she possibly can, she feels like she should be doing more.

Anybody have any thoughts that are different from mine?

TIA,
Julie

Edited to add:

In the meantime, I told DD that she probably is better off not even asking this friend to do anything, since the answer will most like be 'no' and then she wouldn't be disappointed.




Edited 1/10/2007 12:17 pm ET by hydrangea_blue

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-29-2004
Wed, 01-10-2007 - 9:53pm

Again, you will not like what I am going to say.
The father is right. No matter how much your DD says otherwise, the girls' parents are the ones who ultimately REALLY care about their daughter. Not your daughter and not any of the other girls. They care that their daughter follow their belief system. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THEM that their daughter grow up with their values. Tell your daughter that she may not agree with the girls' parents but so what? She should not try to change their mind. It shows a total disrespect for their authority. And, if anything, it will make things worse.

I understand that it is difficult for someone brought up in a society which puts "self" over everything else to understand. I assume that the girl is most likely a strict Muslim or Orthodox Jew or JW or Hindu or Chinese or other very family-centered culture. In those religions, there are very strict rules as to what you can eat or not eat. In those religions, there are strict rules as to whose "house" you can visit and with whom you can socialize with. Your daughter and you might not agree or understand but you don't have to. All you are required to do is accept that their belief system is different than yours.

So what that she is not allowed to IM or go live on her PC? Big deal. The parents actually have a point. Kids spend too much time already doing those things. The girl is not being abused or "going without" because her access to a computer is limited. One of my DD's friends' has those restictions and she is 18! She accepts it as does the rest of the gang of kids. To talk to her friend,she calls her on the phone.

As for the Haunted Hayride, maybe it is against their religion to participate in an activity that "pretends" to deal with the occult. I know some JWs that would NEVER allow their child to go on such an activity. Another one of DD's friends would never be allowed to do such a thing. She is also not allow to go to dances or date and she is 18. She will most likely have an "semi-arranged" marriage with a young man of her faith (islam) and cultural background. To this girl, contact with a man who is not related to her is a big "no no". Modestly is very important.

You should not have called to plead your case. It only made it worse. Why would you think that saying that you will be there would make any difference? You are not of their belief system. You allow your daughter to do activities they don't agree with. Think about it.

Take this as an opportunity to teach your daughter what "true injustice" really means.
A 16 year old not being allowed to attend some dance or a football game is far from being an unjust situation.

Don't assume that it will backfire on them. There are many compensations for those who grow up in a strict but very family-oriented culture. There is a closeness of community that Western Culture lacks. There is a freedom to grow up without any "sexual" baggage. I know many girls who were brought up in very strict familes and did not "go wild". They are all happily still married after over 35 years.

By the way, I am not Islamic or Jewish or Hindu or JW or even a strict Catholic.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-29-2004
Wed, 01-10-2007 - 10:19pm

Come on. An unjust situation is some child STARVING TO DEATH. An unjust situation is some child dying of AIDS.

The child is still a child as long as the parents are footing the bill. Parents have every right in the world to set the rules for their kids. It is not an archaic belief. Who is anyone to say that their interference will make life better for anyone else! As long as the child is not being abused, it is no one's business.

I know many Asians. They now thank their parents that they pushed them to work hard. If not, they would not be the doctors or the engineers or the dentists they are now.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
Wed, 01-10-2007 - 10:29pm

THAT sure didn't come out right! DD didn't want to confront the parents herself, just hoped that someone out there had some magical btdt experience and/or method that would help her friend convince her parents that she was trustworthy and they could loosen the reins a little bit so she might be able to have a little fun with her friend.

No way would I have allowed DD to call this girls parents; it would have no doubt offended them!

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
Wed, 01-10-2007 - 10:39pm

Yes, after today, I think DD is resigned to the fact her friend isn't available socially and probably won't be anytime soon. DD asked her today if she could go shopping with her for a winter formal dress (not that the friend could go to the formal, but DD is and thought her friend might enjoy shopping and trying on some dresses herself just for fun) but her mom said 'no' because finals are coming up and shopping would take away from study time this weekend.

She'll just have to enjoy this friend at school.

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
Wed, 01-10-2007 - 10:58pm

I think you are being a bit presumptious about this girls' background. You assume wrong, she is not a strict Muslim or Orthodox Jew or JW or Hindu or Chinese or other very family-centered culture that you mention. Her family does not practice a religion at all. They are simply very strict and she is an only child. My DD attends a private Catholic school, as does her friend, but neither is Catholic. My DD attends the school by choice; I THINK the reason her friend does is because it does have an outstanding academic reputation.

My DD means no offense or disrespect to her friends' family. She simply listens her friend, hears how sad she is and wants to help her. No way would I have allowed her to call these parents and confront them. You are right that it would have been extremely disrespectful. What my DD wondered if someone out there had some btdt experience that may have been useful for her friend with her parents to help them see she is trustworthy and that attending one football game or dance during her high school years would not jeopardize her life -- nor would it ruin her chances for getting into college.

As far as my calling the mom about the Hayride, the outing was intended to be a mini birthday celebration for my DD. With teenagers, things (like details) sometimes get forgotten or lost in translation and I wanted the other mom to know that I was going to do the driving, would stay during the duration of the hayride, be there immediately after to pickup, who was going, etc., so that perhaps she might feel more comfortable letting her DD go. We have met a number of times, so it's not as if we are complete and total strangers. I have seen the mom several times since the Hayride incident and she was completely and totally friendly. She did not mention my call, but she did not seem the least bit offended.

If you note in my original post, I wrote 'perceived injustice'. I am not saying that her friend is being treated unjustly, or even that this is my opinion, but that my DD, with her teenage heart and mind, feels her friend is missing out on some plain old fun. I AM of the opinion, however, that a little fun now and then would do this girl a world of good.

Thank you for your input.

Edited 1/10/2007 11:00 pm ET by hydrangea_blue




Edited 1/10/2007 11:00 pm ET by hydrangea_blue

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Thu, 01-11-2007 - 12:10am

There are alot of Asians in San Jose, California in my neck of the woods.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-05-2006
Thu, 01-11-2007 - 12:33am

Cyber hugs and kudos to your DD for having the courage and compassion to want to change what must be a socially isolating situation. I agree with you that your DD should not confront the parents, if anything, it would most likely validate the father's misguided belief about teenagers.

While I respect a parent's right to authority in their home and boundaries for their children, these situations are so disheartening. Makes me want to scream to see that they are most likely socially handicapping their daughter. She will have no life experience to face the challenges we all encounter on life's path. I can only imagine that she will either become very introverted or prey to a society filled with dangers or in the very near future REBEL in a large way. As women it takes life experience to learn to trigger internal alarms.

Your DD is a kind young lady and should be commended for her compassion, unfortunately there are many things in life we cannot change. Since teenagers live in social moment, whether she continue to invite the friend to outings or not they will most likely grow apart due to lack of interaction.

My only thoughts are to at every opportunity let the friend's parents know what a responsible young lady they have raised and continue to invite her...I have a strong sense of hope.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-18-2006
Thu, 01-11-2007 - 4:07am

QUOTE: "Come on. An unjust situation is some child STARVING TO DEATH. An unjust situation is some child dying of AIDS.

The child is still a child as long as the parents are footing the bill. Parents have every right in the world to set the rules for their kids. It is not an archaic belief. Who is anyone to say that their interference will make life better for anyone else! As long as the child is not being abused, it is no one's business.

I know many Asians. They now thank their parents that they pushed them to work hard. If not, they would not be the doctors or the engineers or the dentists they are now."

Okay.

Usually I'm pretty calm and reserved, and I type out long, diplomatic posts, but you've kind of irked me.

1. Who says the friend wants her parents to "foot the bill"? She is planning to move out of home - who do you think will foot the bill for that? Honestly, the way they're described, they'll probably chuck the daughter out before she has a chance to think about moving out.

2. Did you know that there are many, many children whose parents are emotionally abusing them today?

3. Did you know that many Asian students in competitive schools are under immense pressure to succeed in life?

4. Yes, it is a parent's right to set rules, but it is nobody's right to socially cripple a child, because that will not benefit them and it is NOT in the child's best interest.

5. I'll tell you about a friend of mine who attended a highly competitive boys' school in Melbourne called Melbourne High. It is extremely tough, and many of the boys attending this school are on amphetamines or antidepressants because of the immense pressure to do well. If you do not perform there, you will be chucked out. Early in his experience at MHS, he suffered a mental breakdown. There was no care. He was forced to repeat Year 11 as his teachers deliberately failed him, even though his work was of an adequate standard. He will now be completing his VCE through distance education.

6. A significant percentage of boys attending MHS are Asian, and a significant percentage of the girls attending the sister school, MacRob Girls' High are also Asian. Too high a number of these children are not allowed social lives. They spend most of their time out of school with private tutors, doing extra work, because their parents will it. Nobody asks these kids what they want out of life.

7. I wonder how many of those Asian people you know really enjoy what they do, or if they were pushed into it because "that's where the money is"?

8. An Asian girl who finished MacRob this year slapped me across the face because I beat her in a maths assignment back in Year 8 (I did not attend MacRob, she attended our school until Year 9). What on God's green earth was she going through in terms of parental pressure to make her slap me? And by the way, just who taught her that it is okay to slap someone who does better than you?

9. Another girl stayed up 'til 2 AM every night studying this year (Year 12). I wonder how well she did.

10. WHAT THE HELL are these kids on MEDICATION for? Why the hell are they being tutored every spare moment? For what end? Is it even what the kids want?

11. By the way, would you consider throwing your child out of home if he doesn't achieve a near "perfect" ENTER "just"?

And in summation:
The pressure is insane! Don't anyone stand there and tell me that is not abuse. Even circus and zoo animals get a break from performing, but these kids are constantly on stage. How is that just?

By the way, the really sad thing is that the OP's DD's friend will not gain control of her own life once she turns 18. Her parents will have to cark it before she can truly be free.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-14-2006
Thu, 01-11-2007 - 6:47am

Sorry, I misunderstood.

When you asked how C could convince the parents, that's what occured to me. My DD has one friend who took it on herself to convince me the Teen Club they wanted to go to was "fine". In another context, I was expressing concerns to our Rabbi about an upcoming trip (really just asking questions) and one of the other kids jumped in to "convince" me. It bothered me that they thought that they *at the ripe age of 15 or 16* had information that I didn't.

I think the way C's friend can convince her parents, if it's possible, is to start with small steps. She may never have the level of freedom she wants (do any of our teens?), but she might be able to stretch it a little. Maybe some mom-daughter outings with you and other moms? Then if you have a chance to talk to the mom, you might be able to talk about how you are gradually giving C a little more freedom, so she learns how to use it safely BEFORE she turns 18 and is on her own.

(((HUGS)))

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Thu, 01-11-2007 - 11:52am

Wow, abbagirl, I am amazed at your eloquent post and find that I agree with you 100%.