DD18 is SO irrational & SO ungrateful!

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-2005
DD18 is SO irrational & SO ungrateful!
13
Mon, 11-07-2005 - 12:27am

My 18 yr old dd works 3 part-time jobs, not that many hours and has plenty of free time that she spends with her bf; does great in school, but seems to have a BIG CHIP on her shoulder EVERY time we try to talk to her about ANYTHING! She's like a broken record and no matter what the "discussion" is about, she will bring up past problems that we thought were resolved long ago. She will attack us saying that we have NEVER done anything for her or bought her anything (we have of course!!!) and that she's been "taking care of herself since she's been 15" and each time she says it, the age gets younger! So dramatic and stuck on the "poor me's". She has a sister who is bi-polar and had problems that required us (over the past several years) to take her to many counseling sessions, in & out patient facilities, and spend a lot of time in fear of things she did and might do. She had a job, but hasn't worked for a few months. DD18 keeps complaining, saying that we just GIVE her sister EVERYTHING! There is no talking to her, she always ends up spewing nasty comments at my dh & I, when we have worked so hard to give her everything she needs! Love, attention, hugs, kudos, listening ears, all their clothes until they got jobs, then a few things they "needed" for school each year, and things for birthdays & holidays and "just because" days. Because I have been off work for a year, she will say to me "At least I WORK!" I maintain my cool, but inside I am thinking "other parents would slap this mouth". Of course, if I say that to her, she will say she will call the police. OY!! If I ask her how her day went, she'll tell me, then if I ask even 1 more question, it's "quit asking me so many questions, you are SO annoying!!" Wha???

My dh & I are exhausted trying to figure out why she thinks the way she does?!?!?! Time to call Dr. Phil??? She will NOT go to any counseling--the 1 time we got her there, trying to make sure she was ok with all the stuff going on with her sister, she refused to talk and go back. This behavior is not always connected with her "cycle", although it gets worse the week before. She has a few days when she is calm & pleasant. I try to stay calm when I talk to her, but it gets so frustrating and is never productive because she won't break out of her way of looking at things. I try to repeat what she says and see things like she might be seeing them. I try to explain where dh & I are coming from--I always explain, then I get "I DON'T CARE", "WHY DON'T YOU DROP IT!" (when it was HER that brought it up!!), and "I HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN LISTENING TO YOU!" GRRRRRR!! There were glimmers of hope that she was starting to grow out of this, but we're right back to the old behavior. She gets to do what she wants because she is 18, but never gives back! Doesn't help without being asked, sometimes several times! She will say she will do something, then gets a phone call and off she goes--if we catch her, we make her do what she promised, but many times she's out the door. I guess I'll have to get my own counseling, I don't know what else to do! Thanks & sorry this was so long.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-23-2003
Mon, 11-07-2005 - 6:35am

OMG when I read your msg. I said gee did I write this under an alias. My dd at l8 is soo similar it is scarey. You can't talk to her about anything whatsoever, I tried yesterday, because she kept changing her schedule on things she had to do and replied with something soooo vulgar this mgs. would be deleted if I typed it. I am about ready to work two jobs if need be to help her into her own apt. I have had it. I have been there for mine too, supportive in her athletics; respectful to her etc. etc. and nothing back.

She has no school today and she wanted to go out last nite, I said no, not with that mouth, her response was "how are you gonna ground me when I am disrespectful in college" WHAT??? She has this planned? I don't know what to do either. She won't go to counseling and I missed not one but two opportunities to call the cops on her which would have forced a physh eval, (I told her she could not go somewhere so she kicks a full length mirror with blood and glass everywhere), and dum me does not call the cops.
Mine has actually gotten physical twice, in which I should have pressed charges.

With my dd's attitude lately, behavior, forgetfulness I am really suspecting drugs? Any chance yours is into it and we are "wreckin their high", I really wonder. The old bs. of they have to be stumbling falling down puking is bs. They are getting slicker and slicker.

Of course, I have a dh who says not his angel, she is honor athlete how could it be? LOL yeah rite. She is just as disrespectful to him but what he has done is distance himself from her, so she has no chance to be rotten to him, just joins in very limited very benign conversation usually in something fun she is doing or wants.

My plan is to use law enforcement for a physch eval. She actually thinks she is going to college next yr. She is sooooo not ready. She can take out the loan. She is too old for this regression and its not gonna work not here.

I feel your pain, I am sorry you are going thru this. It really is wearing me thin, literally, virtually, mentally and physically. At l8 I think our choices are really limited unfortunately. Other than they are on their own, no more cell, money whatever, it's all we can do, including car...I am still amazed reading this post it's like I wrote it....

Laur

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-23-2003
Mon, 11-07-2005 - 6:48am

Forgot to put this in, because your post is just soooo surreal, I really thought I was the only one going thru this kind of disrespect shutting out and for me just plain hate. URGH...

Anyway I am going to find counseling for myself as well because like I said this is taking its toll on me big time. You can't (for me) get the hateful words pounded in day after day out of your head overnite. I find myself unable to hold a job because I am just such a dam wreck over this, coupled with, like you there are other factors frazzling nerves to no end. Good luck to you, pls pls stay in touch and keep posting just to vent.

Hugs to you, Laur

Avatar for heartsandroses2002
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 11-07-2005 - 9:14am

Just wondering about a few things. Here are my thoughts.

Does she work 3 jobs because she has to in order to get the amount of pay she desires? I mean, can she whittle it down to only ONE part time job? Even though she has plenty of free time with her family and buds, all that juggling is very stressful, especially for someone so young.

I have a 16dd who also has Tourettes and a mood disorder, so I can relate to your situation wherein the other child may get more attention out of necessity, perhaps leaving your 18dd feeling like she is freefalling .... all on her own much of the time.
My 18dd has stated that is how she has felt over the years at times, like when the 16dd is in a crisis situation and needs a lot of my attention. My 18dd has always been the responsible one, the easier one, the more stable one. My 16dd has always been the high maintenance child.

Over the past 5 years my H and I have gone to counseling off and on to learn how to be the parent we need to be with our high maintenance child but still be there for our 18dd (low maintenance so to speak) child.

IMO, your dd sounds overworked and stressed - she's simply juggling too many schedules and needs someone to tell her it's okay to quit one or two of those jobs. I also think she should go have a full physical with blood work and have her hormone levels checked. Even if her periods are 'regular', stress could cause her other hormones to be out of wack and she may need to find healthy ways to relieve that stress or even take BCP to stabilize her levels. And lastly, I think you and your H should get yourselves to a counselor - it's never too late - to figure out a way to salvage your relationship with your 18dd. She is still relatively young and probably needs you more than you realize.

Gee, I hope this works out - many hugs.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-2005
Mon, 11-07-2005 - 9:55am

Laur, I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in this--not that really I thought I was, but I'm sorry to hear about your situation. My dd has mostly used words, but they are like knives sometimes. She just knows what buttons to push and pushes them all at once. I'm getting better at NOT REACTING to her jabs and a counselor suggested I remain straight-faced, calm, and when she's done ranting, say "are you done?" and keep repeating it. Only that didn't work well with her. She constantly interupts what we say, never let's me finish a full statement and overreacts to what she "thought" I was going to say! It's been hard on my dd16 having to hear all the yelling, she copes by getting out of hearing distance.

You're right, it's as if we're supposed to just take this verbal abuse & say "thank you, can I have some more please?" I've gotten a lot better at letting it slide off my back mainly because it's the same "tape" over & over. I have told her many times what it's like from our side to hear her say those things. And, yes!, until I talked to my dh several times, expressing how I felt about his not being as involved, he was the same way, keeping a "light" atmosphere around the girls. Always "getting" to have the fun! He does have a knack for doing it, and it's helped at times. But, since I quit my job a year ago, everyone looks to him for $$ and if we "can" do anything like eat out. (felt like we were back in the 50's!) Now, he sees more of what I've seen daily & complains that she doesn't say "thank you" for anything he does for her. We have been good examples, always treating them with respect, but setting rules and sticking to them. We thought we had a pretty normal existence until she hit 15 & the mouth kicked into gear! We keep thinking WE went wrong somewhere, but I've been told by many that it's just what 18 yr olds DO! (I didn't act like that to my parents & dh had to pay for everything he wanted!)

My dh has also been looking EVERY DAY for months for a good, inexpensive car to replace the old (big, safe!) one WE GAVE HER (she pays insurance & it has 170,000+ miles) Her response to this is "I have been too!"--only her "looking" is checking online or looking in the paper once in awhile. He's the one trudging over to dealerships & calling local sellers & driving around. I ask "why doesn't she go with you, to see what you are doing for her?" He says it's easier without her because she complains & doesn't want anything he picks. Only, she STILL doesn't want anything he picks after he gets home & describes what he's found & gives his advice! Now she wants to take out an loan--with US co-signing and he does NOT want to. So, instead, he will help her pay for needed repairs to keep the car in good shape for winter (we're midwesterners) We're trying to show her that THIS IS WHAT LIFE IS! She complains that she has no money, yet she buys clothes, admitting the other day that she has too many now & needs to stop (!); thinks she can afford a monthly car payment, a college loan & an apartment! She says her friends (18-21) "know" about cars and told her the good ones to get, so she could have had a better one by now, but she's angry because dh said "no" to them all. They would have been way too expensive or junkers! She does not get it that he has 40 years experience & is well-versed in picking, fixing & buying a decent car! We might have done something like paid 1/2 toward a newer car, had her attitude been better!! I've told her this, too! All she says is "yea, sure you would!" We have in the past, so she's seen it. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HER!!

I think our dd's are caught at a point where they're trying to pull away & be independent, but struggling with it & still want our support & to be "taken care of". But they also don't want to admit it. They want to be "tough" and prove that they are "adults"--and sometimes take on too much. Being an adult to me means being capable of thinking things through before they speak, speaking in a civilized way, being fully responsible for their actions; making their own money, etc.

Does yours have a job? Is she doing ok in school? You said she's an athlete. Is she doing that because she likes it or is/was she being pushed into it in some way? I don't mean by you, but maybe she's frustrated trying to "be the best". I remember my dd being so frazzled, trying to "do it all"--as if she would be on the streets if she didn't! I simply said "you don't have to be pushing so hard yet at your age!" & do you know when she changed? When her friends told her the SAME THING! OK, well, I've gotten 2 "I hate it when you're right!" comments, with a smile & a grunt. lol

Yes, I've thought about her using alcohol or drugs. There has never been anything here (believe me--I'm the fine-tooth-comb type!!) She has never come home in an altered state, & I've been up close to try to detect anything. Of course I don't know what she does when she's out or overnight somewhere, but I'm sure she has had things. I've read some of her online stuff, then had to stop. I was seeing more than I wanted to about her & her friends lives. They also might say more than they are really doing, to be "cool", but I'm not naive & was young "once"! Usually after we have a yell-fest, she thinks about things and I'm sure talks to her older bf (2 yrs) about it. He's actually been a help to US, showing her the right way to be sometimes, and there have been apologies, but it shouldn't happen in the 1st place.

As far as your dd smashing property--that's going way too far and hurting herself or you! She needs to replace or pay you for the damage, especially since she's 18! Instead of going right to the authorities, see if there is a liaison of sorts that can come to your home and talk. I haven't explored this, but have heard of it. Just someone to give an outside view & some tips, maybe suggest someone to counsel you both. If nothing else, call the cops if something happens again, or at least tell her calmly that you will have to if it continues. Does she have a physical yearly? Maybe talk directly to her doctor in confidence beforehand, expressing your concerns and there might be "tests" they will need to take samples for...don't know if there are legal problems with this, you can ask.

Have you sat down under quieter times (are there any??--I know!!) and spoke quietly, asking if she has something going on that is bothering her or if she'd like to talk to someone--reminding her that counselors are private, non-biased people, there to help? I have a feeling she is like my dd18--not trusting someone like that, or thinking how stupid to tell a stranger your problems.

We've had the "discussions" about her moving out, too. My dd thinks she can afford that, a car payment and a college loan! Sure, you think, "well, let her find out how hard it is", but then, she is out there and might be too proud to move back, or won't because she's tasted total freedom! I'm not keeping the apron strings attached, it's just that she is slender and very pretty and gets hit on a lot, and I'm very scared she will be hurt in other ways. She says she can handle herself--didn't we all?

OK, that's MY venting for the week! Take care and please vent ANYTIME, let me know how you are doing!!

TMHM

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-1999
Mon, 11-07-2005 - 8:23pm

OK, so let me get this straightened out....


We have an 18 y/o girl

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-2005
Tue, 11-08-2005 - 2:59am

No, you DO NOT HAVE IT STRAIGHT!

I am not saying my dd18 doesn't have good qualities--she does and we are always thanking her and telling her how proud we are of her. She really is a very responsible person! That is why the way she acts 2/3's of the time is so confusing & frustrating! There is NO REASON for it! It seems to be her BAD HABIT and maybe it's just her way of letting off steam, even though what she SAYS is not rational!

She only has 2 classes that carry any work load, but she finishes that in her 2 study halls, the other classwork is done in the classes, and she breezes through it all. She only goes to school 4 hrs daily, has an hour between to relax before going to her co-op job that lasts 4 hrs--only 3 days a week. AND I usually have lunch waiting for her on the days I don't work! (I DO have a part-time job again) We compliment her regularly on doing such a good job at school, especially showing our pride in her to other people, so she can see how we feel.

She makes better money at the co-op job than at her other 2 jobs. She got the position because she told them she would work every day. Oh, and by the way, they wanted her to start at 12:30, which she agreed to and did for a short time, but then told them she needed to start later because it was too much of a rush from school-this is valid and they agreed to it. But, then, because she didn't LIKE what she was doing--boring filing, small projects--she chose to tell them that it was "interfering with her schoolwork" and that she could only work 3 days, which was not true and she admitted that to us. They were counting on her for the 5 days & her teacher even called ME about it, but they had a deal with the teacher, so kept her on. Then, even though they want to hire her in January full-time, with benefits(!), she won't take it--she wants to work with the public more and keep her part-time jobs. But, she also complains about not getting enough hours at those jobs, and knows that this job would help her get the money she needs for the extra things she wants faster! On this subject, however, and at this age, I do not have a problem with her decision. You SHOULD be happy & feel fulfilled in whatever job you do and she has plenty of time to work in her lifetime. This is partially why I took a year off after working outside the home for 35 years, so I could see what work would really make me feel more fulfilled!

Are you starting to get the feel of why we're frustrated yet?

She does not participate in any school-related activities--wants to be as far away from the place as possible, hence her pushing last year to get as many credits so she could graduate early, as she says "to get the heck out of that place".

She complains about many of the things we have because they somehow aren't "good enough"--yet better than we had as kids, and we each had a comfortable upbringing. We don't have a new home, but it's nice, clean, and big enough, with a great yard that we all enjoyed--even had a pool, more than I ever had! It's just not a big mansion like many of the wasted spaces around the area, and it's not in a sub-division--so no sidewalks--and we are on a main road, but have plenty of front yard as a buffer. These people ramble around their big houses and never see each other and I keep hearing about parents of these kids "not caring where they are & letting them roam and do whatever they want with all the cash they want"! Well, maybe there's something to "absence makes the heart grow fonder"? We chose a modest home on a great lot, with the intention of putting any extra money into some big renovations, but, life brings challenges and we've been through 2 of my husband's plant closings and came close to moving 4 times out of state. But through it all, I kept working--both outside and making calls from home to supplement our income. We chose to stay put--rooted--for the GIRLS SAKE, we didn't want to tear them away from their friends and familiar surroundings. Do we get a pat on the back for this? Not from them, they don't see the whole picture EVEN THOUGH WE'VE TOLD THEM ALL OF THIS! They just complain--cuz they're still young girls? We don't complain around them, we try to emphasize the positive! In fact, I'm the one who is the most positive around everyone! Sometimes they even complain about THAT! I put up inspirational quotes now & then, remind them of manners and "doing the right thing" and follow through by setting a good example.

What more can a person do?

No, I DO NOT ask her to do chores the minute she gets home, everyone needs that break after working--in school or at a job. Like I said above, I even have lunch waiting for her and this is one of the few times we can relax together. If she IS asked to help out, she says "later!!" or #1-she's too tired (this after she's napped for 2 hours; #2-she's "busy", as she's looking at clothes online or #3-she just has too much else to do at that moment, i.e.--a friend called and/or there is something better to do than any helping around the house! But, we insist she do something to help--she refuses to learn when it's offered, says she doesn't know how to do the laundry when asked to just throw in a load-EVEN THOUGH I'VE SHOWN HER--she doesn't want to put the effort into LEARNING IT! So, I DO ALL THE LAUNDRY--even tho I've told her I won't do hers unless she does SOMETHING more to help AND SHE HAS A TON OF CLOTHES! I have left her clothes for her, but then she will find an excuse that she couldn't do them. I know when she works and how often, and believe me, there is PLENTY of time for her to do this work. Her younger sister does HER own laundry fairly often, without being told! To add insult to injury, dd18 will tell us she did dishes or cleaned up AT HER BF's apartment! All that is FUN, like playing house! She uses dishes, eats food, uses linens, all this is what a family does, but each is responsible, especially at HER AGE to help. She actually REFUSES to wash dishes! I tried to get the 2 girls to switch jobs now & then, but my dh said as long as it works, let them do what they want as far as the dishes (grrr!) dd18 was always the dryer and dd16 was the washer when they USED to do dishes together before they had jobs. DD16 also does ANY chore she is asked to do, MOSTLY without complaining. Is it really any wonder why we WANT to do more for her? I try to explain to dd18 that if she was more cooperative, people would want to do more for her. Instead, she just expects things to be done! She thinks if she cleans her room without being told, which is never seen & is upstairs, so not much of an impact on anything, that this it's a major accomplishment! She's 18!! Of course, we say, "that's great". On the flip side of that, dd16 has a horribly messy room MOST of the time! sigh.

I work outside the home, but I also have a small, pt business I run from home. I've always kept very busy! I have been working for 35 years--since age 15--full-time up until dd18's birth, then went back ft after 3 months, for 8 months until I couldn't stand being away from her any longer and then found out we were expecting dd16. My last job was near full-time & lasted over 10 years--the whole time I was also taking care of the entire home load AND taking them everywhere AND being called out of work for traumatic events at school with the younger dd AND working at home with a small business AND taking care of my mother!---there's only so much space here! My dh is a work-a-holic, too! He's incredibly dedicated and has good morals and high standards for himself. He never misses work and has gotten many rewards for this. I couldn't ask for a better rold model for my kids!

So, yes, I get a little upset when she has the gall to attack me when she feels "stressed" with the words "at least I'm working!"! Not acknowledging that I've DONE MY PART--BIG TIME! The only reason I took off for the year is because I couldn't take on any more stress at that job and als deal with all the stress at home and with my mom. The company had 3 consolidations (!) and of course, piled the work on those who were left AND THEN decreased our hours! But of course, they expected it all to be done just the same. I know what it's like to work very hard, always have and always could. This was my very first attempt at regaining MY sanity for the sake of the family. So, my "reward"? Ungrateful children--parenting is the job that never gets those rewards, but I would not change a thing. The thing is, I KNOW that eventually they will come around. In fact, my dd18 HAS said twice (yes, I'm counting!) that "I really hate it when you're right, Mom!" with a grin.

THERE's the REWARD!!

The point I'm trying to make AGAIN is that she really has no reason to be resentful! I make SURE we have good conversations, at least I start them calmly, lovingly, and with caring concern. I don't get it in return! She gets a lot of my attention and her dad's! Even with all the working he does, he takes the time to do everything he can for her--talks to her, discusses the car situation rationally, yet gets pickiness from an inexperienced kid in return! WITHOUT REGARD FOR THE EFFORT WE BOTH ARE MAKING TO HELP HER!! We both do fun things with them when we can, we can be VERY funny and they both have a good sense of humor and are considered fun by friends. Yes, she can be SO stubborn and wants what she wants---it's like saying "I don't like that COLOR, so NO, I don't want that great car, no matter how good it is!"

Do you understand better now who we're dealing with?

I am always there for them, my dh works 6-7 days a week, sometimes 12 hr shifts, at night and tries to get sleep during the day, so we can have our family time in the evenings. We adjusted OUR schedules so the kids were always taken care of. Yet, WHO is always missing from the dinner table because she wants to be with her friends or bf and says she isn't "into the family thing"---dd18.

So, blame? Re-evaluating? I don't think so, we have tried to see where we might have "gone wrong" when she acts so irrational--even counselors have told us to quit beating ourselves up. The best of parents have kids who will do what they want to do and act how they want to act despite the best efforts to show them the right way! We were always heavily involved in whatever activities they did, went to ALL the games, ALL the concerts, ALL the plays, ALL the special nights.

Tell me, NOW do you still think her actions are appropriate???

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-1999
Tue, 11-08-2005 - 7:09am

Never said her actions were appropriate, just what I saw as a possiblity of where she was coming from.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-23-2003
Tue, 11-08-2005 - 7:13am

Mom: It sounds like you have gone over and above for your dd like I have mine, and now paying the price. Three very p/t jobs with her school schedule does not sound like too much to me. It's funny when they say how they "have sooo much to do" but fun time ..hanging out time with friends never too tired for that.

She NEEDS to learn how to do laundry. She should be doing her own laundry actually. Can't she find one good part time job vs. the three. I find you having to explain every thing you have done or not done for your kids. You have done nothing wrong IMO. These kids now a days are instant gratification and it is sooo frustrating. My dd informed me last nite I am lazy because I don't work LOL...I want her to put in one day around here. She can't even handle her laundry which is piled up sky high in the laundry room

All I have to say is you are going over and above for her, she is being 18, and certainly does not sound overstressed. She can certainly handle her bf's housework.

I must admit I had the chills when I read the reply putting the blame on you. Holy cow. I totally disagree. You hang in there I don't know what the heck turns our girls from Jekyll & Hyde it seems to go along with the word no. Oh well too bad. IMO my l8 dd did not hear it enough now she is over the top.

Good luck keep venting and writing if you need to. You and your DH imo are doing a darn fine job. I not only have an l8 yr old who gets downrite incoherent my dh and I will find any excuse to make this my fault....talk about difficult. URGH..

Take care, Laur

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Tue, 11-08-2005 - 2:43pm

::she will bring up past problems that we thought were resolved long ago. She will attack us saying that we have NEVER done anything for her or bought her anything

Have I got a book for you:

How to Really Love Your Teenager, Ross Campbell (Check out the chapter on Anger and the diagram about the Anger Ladder).

Another good book is Five Love Languages, by Gary Chapman

At 18, maybe it's time she be on her own to 'grow up' time apart does wonders.

And if you want a really, really weird idea email me at onetwinflame@hotmail.com


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-22-2003
Tue, 11-08-2005 - 4:28pm
I do feel for you as I have an 18 yr. old daughter as well. You sound resentful but I don't think the problem is your daughter. She's 18 and I would imagine will be moving away soon, perhaps to college or to her own apartment (she sounds rather motivated). I would pick your battles and let the rest lie where they may. Life is far too short to be worrying about chores. I have a daughter with cystic fibrosis and I might not have a chance to see her grow up to full maturity. I would live every moment to the fullest and treasure the time you have with your children before they leave home.

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