End zero tolerance

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-25-2006
End zero tolerance
20
Sat, 10-28-2006 - 3:02pm

End zero tolerance. Here are a couple links that every parent of a high school student should check out. I never paid any attention to the school code of conduct, thinking I raised my children well, always reminding them of what's legal and what's not, and of the real life (not school)consequences of making bad decisions. I thought they understood us and that they'd never get in trouble. Prior to my son's suspension two weeks ago, I would have said I support a "zero tolerance" policy.

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;112/5/1206?fulltext=expulsion&searchid=QID_NOT_SET

http://endzerotolerance.com/student_rights_card.pdf

This guy explains my position:
http://www.garlikov.com/philosophy/expulsion.htm

Thanks for spreading the word!

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http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/october/meet_the_new_health_.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQTBYQlQ7yM

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-1999
Sat, 10-28-2006 - 6:48pm

Thanks for sharing those sites.

Avatar for momtb4
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sat, 10-28-2006 - 9:10pm

my DS was almost suspended for getting beat up by a bully! This hs has a zero tolerance of bullying. The kids who actually threw the punches is a repeat offender and is on a boundry exception (they call it "choice" here). DS got a day of in school suspension, which I strongly disagreed with, the other kid who bruised and bloodied my kid got 3 days out of school suspension and 2 weeks of "being watched." I still think that's crap. The other kid toed the line for his 2 weeks, then beat the crap out of another kid! The school rules say he'd be expelled on the 3rd time, my kid was the 5th or 6th time. School rules also say that "choice" kids will be removed back to their home school for any offense. Basically, if you want to be in our school, act like you wanna be in our school. And NONE of these rules applied to this kid, who is still there.

I'd love to see an end to blanket zero tolerance.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-18-2005
Sun, 10-29-2006 - 7:51am

Also, important to keep in mind - suspension/expulsion RARELY WORKS! It's ususally the same kids who get suspended over and over; not only are they missing academic content (as one of these articles pointed out), but also they are not getting intervention/support for the problems that caused the suspension.

Here's a link to an article about why suspension is not the right way to go:
http://www.bazelon.org/issues/children/publications/suspending/suspendingdisbelief.pdf

It's sort of long (30 pages), but worth paging through.

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-25-2006
Sun, 10-29-2006 - 9:58am

Thank you, Sue, and Rose, too. I had not come across the Bazelon article when doing my inet search. I will include references to this, and to Rose's story of the effective AP in her school when I meet with our school district's administration and with our HS policy committee.

Last year there were two of my dyslexic students who were suspended, one in second grade and one in third. I'll pass along this info to that school district also.

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http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/october/meet_the_new_health_.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQTBYQlQ7yM

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-19-2003
Sun, 10-29-2006 - 3:36pm

Expulsion has its place as a punishment in a school system. And to me it is a punishment of "last resort" ie there should be an escalating system of consequences before one ends up being expelled as well as some sort of due process with an advocate for the student and for appealing the result. Its important however that there be an alterate for the student ie a different school for at risk kids, for example, that will take in the student and have them finish their education.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
Mon, 10-30-2006 - 10:40am

Okay, I'm not the sharpest tool in this shed here. I consider myself to be of average intelligence, I don't have any sort of college degree and am not a psychologist or counselor and feel I don't think especially critically and/or analytically. I'm truly baffled by the controversy over zero-tolerance policies.

Please understand, I'm not trying to trivialize the situation with your son, just attempting to understand your position. I've skimmed the articles in the links you posted, but I'm still puzzled.

Speaking ONLY on the drug and alcohol issue here, (not the crimes of fighting, gum chewing, dress code violations, tardies, etc.) and in relation to 'good' kids, no learning or mental issues, etc., in my mind this is a black and white issue.

It is illegal for teenagers to drink alcoholic beverages or use drugs. The school has a policy that states any student caught under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs will be punished. Why is that wrong?

Let's say I have a favorite department store that I shop at 3-4 times a month. There are signs posted on the doors that I pass by every time I enter the store. The say 'Shoplifters will be prosecuted'. These same signs are on display throughout the store and also in the fitting rooms. I am well aware of the stores' policy on shoplifting.

Even so, one day I try on a $300 cashmere sweater and really, really want it. I can't afford it, so I attempt to leave the store with it on, without paying for it.

I am apprehended, the police are called, I'm taken to the police station, fingerprinted, photographed ... whatever 'prosecuted' means in this instance. (I don't have any first-hand experience with this either.)

Because I am a 'first offender', should the department store and/or police waive its' policy for me? Doesn't it make sense that after the humiliation of getting caught, arrested, etc., that I won't be trying that again anytime soon?

Isn't that the statement what the school is trying to make? 'Don't try it, because if you're caught, you WILL be punished?'

I understand your DS is upset by this, and rightly so. He is probably seriously regretting his decision to drink that day, and then attend a football game, and isn't that the point? Isn't that what the school wants? To keep students away from drugs and alcohol?

With other issues, like those of bullying and fighting, tardiness, dress code violations, etc., I agree that there are many shades of grey involved and these should be addressed on a case-by-case basis and with intervention if there are negative home-life, mental, or learning issues. But the drugs and alcohol? I don't know how many shades of grey there are when the issues at hand are illegal.

I'm hoping not to be flamed here, just enlightened.

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
Mon, 10-30-2006 - 11:34am

Believe me when I say I've been pondering this all weekend. I'm still pondering as I go about my daily household chores ...

Let's say that your DS did NOT get caught drinking this time. So he decided to do it a 2nd time, and that time, he gets caught. Because it's his '1st offense', he's given a Saturday or in-school suspension in lieu of the harsher one in the policy.

After serving his suspension time, your DS decided it wasn't all that bad after all; he could live with that and he's starting to really like the feeling alcohol has on him. So go drinks a 3rd time and again, doesn't get caught.

He's feeling pretty confident now and decided he can handle the alcohol and drives himself and a couple buddies out for pizza. He ends up in an alcohol related accident, injuring himself and taking the life of one of his buddies. Or possibly causing the death of an innocent person on the road.

Now what? Would you feel differently about the zero tolerance policy? What if your DS had not imbibed at all, and innocently going about his business when he was killed by a teenager drinking who had been given a 2nd or 3rd chance?

Again, no flames please. Still trying to get a picture of both sides of the coin.

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Mon, 10-30-2006 - 11:35am

Janet,
I read your previous post, and you said it was for admitting to drinking before a school football game. How is it that he got "caught" exactly, in a position in which he had to admit to this? I remember thinking that the school's punishment was pretty severe, which is why I wouldn't have added anything to it.

Also, I think you have the right to appeal this decision? Have you done that?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Mon, 10-30-2006 - 11:41am

Julie,
I'm curious too. If he was drinking it seems like it's mainly a parent issue, but apparently he was on school grounds which suddenly makes it completely different. But unless I misunderstand, I think the complaint regarding zero tolernace is really not so much about punishment but about the type of punishment. I agree that a suspension "teaches" very little to most kids, other than giving them some time off. It's often more of a punishment for the parents, in fact. Schools need to find other ways to punish kids, imo. Perhaps making them part of a clean up crew, keeping them from after school activities, etc. But keeping them out of school is merely adding to the problem. Now you're going to have a resentful kid who is behind in his school work.

Hopefully someone else can opine because I also agree that if you break a very clear school rule there should be consequences.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
Mon, 10-30-2006 - 12:18pm

<>

See? I told you I wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed. So this is all about the 'type' of punishment being administered, not so much the punishment itself? I get that.

I have to say that removing driving privileges to/from school from a student caught with alcohol at a school function makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps the duration is a bit excessive, but still a fitting punishment for the crime, imo.

But ... I can see how a months' worth of Saturdays working at an alcohol and drug rehabilitation center would be more a effective 'punishment' than sitting around at home for 5 days doing nothing (but possibly getting into more trouble) could be.

Thanks for enlightening me on this one. I really have been puzzled about it!

 

 

 

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