Help! Need opinions and guidance.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-21-2006
Help! Need opinions and guidance.
24
Fri, 11-03-2006 - 12:31pm

First quarter grades came out this week and my dd (15, and a freshman in high school) received 4 Fs and 2 Ds. What is a mom to do? She is not (and has never been) academically motivated, yet she says she wants to do well and that she wants to go to college. Punishments (i.e. restrictions and take away privileges) and rewards (money and the promise of a car if she does well) don't work. Ernest conversations about the importance of doing well, do not work. Casual conversations about doing well, do not work. Offers of assistance are refused. Questions regarding homework are always answered with "I did it at school" or "It's not due until . . ." or "I know, I'm going to do it". When I ask her to show me the homework that she says is finished, it has always been left at school. My dd is not dumb - she has at least an average level of intelligence! Last year, in 8th grade, I had the school test her to see if she had a learning disability. The answer: no. She was diagnosed ADD during kindergarten and had been on medication since that time. However, once the school said she did not qualify for any special assistance, I went to a psychiatrist for the purpose of having her independently tested. The psychiatrist said she did not need to be tested, that he could tell she did not have a learning disability just by talking to her, and he told her to stop taking medication. Since neither my dd nor I could notice any difference on or off the medication, I did not disagree with that action. However, because I did not like this guy, my dd and I stopped going to him. But what if she needs to be on a different medication? What if there IS something that could be done to help her and no one is doing it? My dd is VERY resistant to more counseling and more testing. She claims there is nothing wrong with her and that she can get her grades up. (But of course, she never does). She barely passed 8th grade. Do I just let the natural consequences fall and have her repeat the 9th grade if that is what happens? "Love and Logic" theories say never to be more concerned than the student is about school work. Well, if that is the case, I should have no worries at all, because SHE doesn't seem to care!! I am so tired of talking to school counselors, teachers, outside counselors, family members, having her tested and retested, etc. I thought I would post here first before I begin yet another round of confrontation with school authorities. Also, just for the record here, prior to the beginning of 9th grade, I tried to get her into a private school that specialized in kids with ADHD and other disabilities, but the school rejected her. When I asked why, they said she had too many mental issues that they were not prepared to handle. The school has a good reputation, although I have to admit that I don't fully understand their reasons for rejecting her. The only positive to the rejection is that my dd did not want to attend the school and it is incredibly expensive (more than $17,000 per year). She currently is in a public school (which is also supposed to be a very good school). I am in the process of getting a tutor for her and interviewed a young man yesterday. On the down side - he is 16 and is a "C" student. On the plus side - he is someone my dd could relate to, he was honest with all the questions I asked of him, and he showed up right on time. What do you think? Should I give the tutor a try? It feels like my dd is slipping through the cracks and I am having a hard time seeing her with a "good" future if nothing changes. Any recommendations?

Amelia

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Fri, 11-03-2006 - 1:02pm

Amelia,

Friend, I am walking in your shoes right now, girl. I have so much to say you might want to email me privately, too.

The FIRST thing I would do is pay to have her independently evaluated by an outside source, at your own expense. It cost me $1,500 but we finally know why ds17 has struggled for so long. No, he probably doesn't have ADD (and we've tried meds, with no result) but he has so many other issues (central auditory processing disorder, language problems) that mimic ADD. Then bring the results to the district (I would bet she's got some learning disabilities, but you'll find out for sure)and demand some help. They will insist on their own testing, it's a given. The "testing" they probably did before, because my ds had the same thing done, may not have been true special ed testing, and in any case sometimes I really believe they slant the results to their own favor. That is why in any case, you should wind up paying for the independent testing yourself. I have also been told to keep a paper trail, everything in writing including your demand for testing. Read this article which will have you fuming: http://www.nypost.com/seven/10292006/news/regionalnews/special_ed_cuts_igniting_a_furor_regionalnews_angela_montefinise.htm

I had ds privately tested, with an educational therapist and next with an audiologist. He has a "cluster" of LD issues, it's no wonder he has struggled so long and so hard, even while wanting to do better, and wanting to go to college. IMO a kid who has goals and keeps failing to meet them is in alot of pain. It's often not just immaturity, but that it's so much more difficult for them eventually they shut down. I rented and watched the video, "Misunderstood Minds". Dr. Mel Levine is a pioneer in this field, and has a book, All Kinds of Minds.

Also, go to this great website which has alot of resources as well: http://www.schwablearning.org/

Email me anytime, this is such a painful road to go through, nobody really understands unless they've walked it. I think we see physical problems as being so much more serious and real, but this is just as real and just as painful. I never would have believed that ds had language problems, he spoke early and often (LOL) and read early and fluently. However, there is much more to dyslexia than mixing up letters. He has expressive language issues. He told the audiologist, "I don't have the words for my ideas." :(
Watching my son struggle is one of the most painful things I've ever done. At last we have answers, but a little too late, kwim? I wish I had taken this action when he was in 9th grade, you still have time. Don't wait, friend. ]]]]

Marie

Avatar for mjaye2002
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 11-03-2006 - 1:10pm

Your post really brought up some questions that I think need to be asked, but *I* wouldn't have a clue on what to do with the answers. (in other words, don't feel like you need to answer these ?s on the board, but you may want to get the answers for your own peace of mind)

1. If she were tested for ADHD in kindy and has been on meds since, has her 'script been the same since then? I'm surprised that neither you nor she (especially she) notices no difference if she's on it or not. My ds noticed a huge difference if he was on it or not. And, as he grew, so did the size of his dose. Of course, I'm not sure what the meds do to kids who are not adhd, and perhaps she was misdiagnosed in kindy--which is why y'all don't notice any difference?? I have no idea...

2. I am not up on the law, but *I* thought (and take this with a grain of salt!) that a diagnosis of ADHD qualified the student for special assistance, even if it is something like letting the student stand up at the back of the room if it was difficult to sit thru an entire period. I could be wrong on this, and/or it may vary from state to state.

3. What exactly were the "mental issues" the private school was not prepared to handle? And could identifying them give an idea if she does has underlying problems?

4. I also question the psychiatrist who said he could tell just by talking to your dd that she did not have an LD?? huh??? Surely there was *some* kind of testing done...

Now, with all that being said (or rather asked), it could be possible that your dd is perfectly normal (no adhd, no LD, etc). She may just have to actually "fail" before it sinks in that she HAS to do the work in order to pass. I happen to have one just like that. :)

Sometimes the best thing we can do as a parent is to let them fail.

I'm sorry, no real advice here, just {{{{hugs}}}}.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
Fri, 11-03-2006 - 1:25pm

Amelia,

I don't have any experience to share or advice to offer with this one, just wanted to send you {{{hugs}}} and some chocolate. I'm sure others will chime in soon.

Julie

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Fri, 11-03-2006 - 1:50pm

You would be shocked that all doctors diagnose ADD just by talking to a kid. There is no single test that determines ADD, rather it's just a process of elimitation. I just took ds to a new neurologist yesterday, who told me again that ADD is just a clinical diagnosis, there are no tests. There is actually a test that measures attention, but it's only one part of the puzzle, and interestingly they (neurologist, psychiatrist) don't feel they need that test to go ahead and prescribe mind altering meds...go figure. I just can't fathom how they can consider giving these kids these powerful meds without any kind of real testing, but that is where we are...

It doesn't vary from state to state, it's the American with Disabilities Act and qualifies anyone diagnosed with ADD. Sounds good in practice, but Section 504 Plans (the plan that allows such accomodations) are often not enough...

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-19-2003
Fri, 11-03-2006 - 3:03pm

I'm so sorry. I cannot offer you any real advice about possible learning disabilities etc. My kids never had these issues themselves. Their academic experiences have been fairly "usual".

One of the other posters suggested better, independantly run testing. This sounds like solid advice given you've seemed to try everything else. Maybe something will be identified.

However, if you do identify an issue, is your dd motivated enough to do what she needs to do to overcome that issue?

Would it help, do you think, to have her work at a typical low-paid teenage type fast food or grocery store job to maybe have her motivate herself to strive for something more challenging for herself?

Does she show an interest in anything that is "non-academic" ie is she a really great hair-dresser or does she sew things or make things or is she artistically oriented? Reason I ask this is maybe that passion for something might motivate her further.

Also, although I wouldn't give up on her, not everyone was meant to be a lawyer, doctor or genius executive, if you know what I mean. She may have a different calling in life and maybe its discovering that other calling which may motivate her to work hard and accept the treatment, whatever it may be, for issues that may be found.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Fri, 11-03-2006 - 3:17pm

You have some basically good advise, in that not everyone was meant to succeed academically and I agree. However, what you are missing due to your lack of experience is that you cannot "motivate" a child with learning disabilities to do better. Their minds work differently, and nothing will change that. Instead, the constant accusations of lack of motivation, laziness, etc. slowly destroy their self esteem. Often these kids are in such great pain they just "check out" and give up. Would it shock you to learn that a good indicator of future crimical activity is reading grade level in 3rd grade? Read this article: http://www.cleveland.com/politics/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1162373867275390.xml&coll=2

I don't know what the answer is, but too many kids are falling through the cracks and this is a huge social problem we absolutely need to correct. I keep forgetting you are in Canada, but that is what we're dealing with here...and no matter how much money and tax dollars we throw at the problem nothing seems to change. We need to change our approach, instead.

Avatar for mjaye2002
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 11-03-2006 - 3:43pm

> > You would be shocked that all doctors diagnose ADD just by talking to a kid. < <

I'm sorry, I mis-understood. When I see "LD" here on the boards, I think of things like dyslexia, dysgraphia, things like that, and ADHD is usually just that. Sorry. That's just me. :)

When we had ds15 diagnosed ADD and LD (dyslexia), I and his teachers had to fill out some forms describing his behavior, etc. and then went from there. But you are right, there is no definitive test out there for it (ADD/ADHD). We did start meds that year and he was on them until this past year. We saw a world of difference in him when he was on meds. He has gotten to the point now, where he understands what is going on, and works really, really hard to be aware of things so he can stay off his meds. He has done very well, I think. He isn't covered under the 504 plan (which IMHO is pretty worthless) but he *is* covered under an IEP, which has some major teeth. :)

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-21-2006
Fri, 11-03-2006 - 3:44pm

Thanks, Marie! I knew that you would understand! I will try to send you an email this weekend. The links were great and I will explore them later, as well. In the meantime, I made an appointment with our local mental health center (just me) for Monday and I hope to get some guidance after talking to someone there. I also have a meeting scheduled with my dd's math teacher for next Wednesday (with my dd present). Thanks again!

Best wishes,
Amelia

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-21-2006
Fri, 11-03-2006 - 3:46pm
Thanks, Julie! Hugs and chocolate do make a difference! (And having friends on this board!)
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-21-2006
Fri, 11-03-2006 - 3:57pm
Thanks for your post, diamondslb! I greatly appreciate everyone's comments and hope to hear from more people, too. Yes, she does have some great skills - working on computers and all types of gadgets like that (she is WAY better than I am in fixing something that gets broke) AND she is very good at doing things with, not only her own hair, but with her friends' hair, too. She is also a very sweet person, albeit, a very stubborn one, as well! I have an appointment on Monday with our local mental health center, and I hope to know more on how to proceed at that time.

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