I got 'told off' by a HS teacher

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-18-2005
I got 'told off' by a HS teacher
6
Thu, 02-16-2006 - 6:44pm

Not one of my DD's teachers, someone through work. LOL what an experience.

In my work, I do training on Positive Behavior Supports - strategies for changing kids' behavior through positive, proactive means. I love it, and it's a great way to approach challenging behavior.

Yesterday, I was asked to do a two-hour workshop for teachers in a nearby school district. About 3/4 the way through, one of the teachers (an older man) said "this is so stupid. in the real world no one will work to make your life better and you just have to behave or else. And we need to teach these kids to just do what we ask them to do and quit Coddling them. No offense, but all this has been just a waste of time!"

Ends up that the audience was 75% HS teachers (I was told a mix of middle school and hs) and mostly from the Alternative HS (mostly kids who have been kicked out of everywhere else, are returning from jail, returning from psychiatric placements, etc). So....a tough audience. I was a little naive, and also a little 'set up'. Not that the basic message would change, but just I would have taken a different tack if I knew what their background was.

In the end all I could think of was the poor kids who have this "behave or else" teacher who disdains them, sees them as incorrigible, and has no regard for their parents. And then I thought about this teacher, and the two or three others who agreed with him, and how frustrated they feel, and how they don't receive the supports and resources they need, and how his "tantrum" was a great signal of how he feels about his job in general.

Not one of my best days at work, but in the end every day is a learning experience. I hope I don't get asked to provide ongoing consultation for this teacher, but in a way it could be an interesting challenge.

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-06-2005
Thu, 02-16-2006 - 11:27pm

I don't know who to feel worse for , you the kids or the teachers. WHAT A JOB!!

side note; i know a teacher who NEEDS your class. 5 th gr teacher (in regular school) who when she 'feels' a child is being immature, has the whole class chant " baby baby , suck your toe, all the way to Mexico " With her(among other things). (no I am not kidding) my niece had her, and was the target of many of the teacher's bad behavior. my sister had a few meeting to stop it. We here she is up to her old tricks again this year , though. The school's position? she is four years from retirement.

just think how many kids she can screw up in four years.... {sigh}
k-

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-29-2003
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 7:56am

Oh, Sue......you opened a can of worms now!! :) It sounds like you were training a tough crowd----that must have been difficult. My DH did computer training for a while, and moved on to other things..........it's a tough job!!

BUT.............

We are ALL going to want to know your secrets!!

Like how to combat a kid that seems overall pretty good, but is surly and has a MAJOR attitude at home? I agree w/ positive 'dicipline', but DH is at the end of his rope! DS can be quite hateful when he doesn't get what he wants (i.e. He wanted to go to a party last night---they don't have school today. Well, he'd just gone to a concert the night before, when we relented and allowed it on a school night. DH didn't get home til nearly 11 from picking him up....tough day at work WE WERE TIRED, so we said no, not this time, and for him to make weekend plans...........he told me I was SELFISH for my decision, and it shouldn't have ANYTHING to do with him, just because I'd had a long day, or dad was tired............hmmmmmmmm---something terribly wrong with this picture) Any Ideas how to positively combat Mr. Attitude himself?

See, now we can all pick your brain!! haha

Thanks, and I completely understand if you don't want to 'work' while on your free time.

Shels

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 9:15am

i think that i can understand the teacher - even tho his attitude was a bit... much. I also once worked in a school for problematic kids (not ex-cons, nothing that bad, but other problems). my job was to facilitate 'alternative' programs for problem solving with the kids - all kinds of programs, games, talks, etc that i had to convey to the staff.

i had the same 'attitude' problem with many of the staff members (usually the older people who had been there for many years). it was like they had "been there done that" with 'new' ideas every couple of years and in their opinion, "nothing" worked anyway, and the kids needed 'more discipline.

of course, it would have been helpful to you if you had known who your audience was going to be....

sorry that it worked out that way...

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-18-2005
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 5:27pm

Shels

The basic outline of what I do and/or coach others to do is:

1) Figure out what the problem is - that sounds easy, but sometimes when you get thinking it's not always easy to pin down. This step also includes taking an assessment of how often, when, where, with whom, and under what conditions. Lots of times this gives insight into exactly what triggers the "bad" behavior and what sets up the likelihood of success. Also spend some time here thinking about what's "normal". LOL we do alot of this on this board, don't we!? Sometimes stuff is just annoying, but developmentally normal.

2) Why does he/she do this? This is the step in trying to figure out the purpose/function of the behavior. I think this is one place where the HS crowd thought I missed the mark. Most misbehavior is related to attention, escape or avoidance, or access to something they want. Older kids and teens also misbehave sometimes "just" to exert control or choice. "Why does he do that?" is the most common question I get. Ususally people know why - like "just to get my goat" (lol, that's attention!), but have a hard time phrasing it.

3) what should he/she do instead? This is identifying what would be a more appropriate way to express what they want and/or to achieve the function in step #2. This is definitely a place where this HS crowd got mad at me! They want the kids to just "cut it out", but that doesn't give kids any outlet. Sometimes it works, in the short term, but eventually kids will figure out a way to get the attention/escape/etc that they were seeking with the problem behavior.

4) Set up a plan - three parts - prevention, teach replacement skills, negative consequences. Most teachers, especially of older kids, think of behavior management as punishment, so when I talked about prevention they saw it as giving in or copping out. But I dont' see it that way. For a while, DD14 was asking/telling me about weekend plans on Friday night when I was totally exhausted. Then I'd usually say 'no' and get a fight, or give in to avoid the fight. Then we said that weekend plans need to be discussed by Thursday evening. If it comes up spur of the moment, we need time to talk about it and won't make a quickie decision. That has prevented many of the fights we were having. IMHO, teaching new skills is the most important part. And I think the HS crowd missed my point here. Kids (and adults) need appropriate ways to get what they want/need - teaching negotiation skills, self-management skills, etc will decrease acting out behaviors by alot.

That's the basics. It doesn't eliminate things like modelling good behavior, negotiating with your kids, setting clear limits, teaching personal responsibility, or accountability, it puts all those things into a bigger framework.

So, about your son, you did it right. You can't 100% do away with the attitude (that's developmentally normal). You could talk with him about "no two late nights in a row" or "don't tell me your plans, ask first". You could teach and encourage negotiation skills - like "mom, I know you're tired. If I can find a ride home, so you guys don't have to go out late, can I go?" Whether or not you institute a punishment for the backtalk is up to you - I ususally ignore it unless it's really hateful. I think it's partly an attention and control thing. DD yells at me, I yell at her, and she wins by setting up the tone of the interaction. If she yells, and I walk away until she's calm, then I've set the tone and content of the interaction. But that's an individual choice based on how often and how bad the nasty talk is.

Well, this got long - hope some of it was helpful. And I know it sounds preachy as I go back and read it. It's not a perfect process, and I am definitely NOT 100% able to actually do this at home with my kids (we *all* lose it sometimes). But it's a great framwork and way to think about "bad" behavior.

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Sat, 02-18-2006 - 9:08pm
Wow - can I ever relate - from BOTH sides of the fence!! First, I must say that I admire your attitude in finding compassion for this inflexible teacher. I teach High School myself - and it IS a tough job with the behaviour disordered kids, and I HAVE found myself saying some version of "suck it up princess" at points in my past. However, THIS year I decided to bring home one of "those" kids. We're fostering him right now, with plans to assume permanent guardianship in the spring. He is ADHD, Oppositional-Defiant, and has had a crummy background. And I have been SO frustrated with those among my colleagues who have that attitude. He may be 14, but he's NOT an adult. Although there are no "excuses" for his behaviour, there are explanations..and he DESERVES the guidance and effort necessary to help him LEARN to succeed in the "real" world, where he'll be expected to behave or else. In his case, and probably for a LOT of the kids I've complained about in the past, it starts with giving them some self- worth: or what the teacher in your audience would call coddling them, I guess :-)
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-21-2005
Mon, 02-20-2006 - 9:32pm

Sue,
I am so sorry for your "idot encounter". How sad - as you pointed out - that this teacher is actually responsible for working with kids in an alternative school.

Oh and, yes, I LOVE that backhanded cowardaly verbal joust of "I don't mean to offend you, BUT". That, of course, puts the whole thing on you for taking the offense -which was certainly intended - to begin with!

How sad.

jt

{S it sounds like you have a REALLY interesting job.