More on the turning 18 thing
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| Mon, 01-23-2006 - 12:08pm |
The previous post on Turning 18 prompted some questions of my own. My son will be turning 18 in a couple of months and I've been getting the same attitude. However, I need some suggestions as to when to draw the line. When do you quit paying for their clothing, personal hygiene expenses, spending money, etc? My son will be lucky if he graduates and he is very lazy about working. He has lots of growing up to do and sometimes I think I should be holding back on giving him any sort of money until he starts earning some of his own.
I also have a daughter turning 13. My daughter and I are quite close and spend lots of time together. My sister and I travel a lot together and would like to start including my daughter - sort of a girls thing. Now, do I worry about not including my son? Do I take the "well, you're 18 now, an adult, you dont need to be going on the girl's trips, you can go places on your own now legally" or do I feel guilty about NOT taking him and offer? My husband and son are not close and dont do many things together, thats where the guilt thing comes in. Am I showing favoritism towards my daughter by taking her places that he never went?

This kinda touched a nerve with me, so if I come across a little harsh, please forgive me.
You say your DH and your DS are not close, and that you prefer the company of your DD. Who does your DS have? Who does he feel he can count on? Do you think he feels left out of the family unit? Or that anybody gives a hoot about him? Just because he's about to turn 18 doesn't mean he doesn't still need parents, or have the need to feel loved and that his family really does care about him and enjoy his company.
From as long as I can remember, my mother has always preferred the company of anybody and everybody over mine. She has a very good friend who is one of 5 daughters. All those ladies have daughters of their own. All those mothers and daughters did all sorts of fun stuff over the years -- gambling trips to Lake Tahoe when any of the girls turned 21, weeks at a lake house, shopping trips, cruises, movies and dinner out, "just the girls", etc. My mother was just about always invited and just about always went along -- and NOT ONCE did she ask me to go. Even now, (she's 67, I'm 44) she organizes and goes on mother-daughter, theatre, shopping, trips, etc., and STILL doesn't invite me. And I'll tell you what, it hurts like hell. A couple of weeks ago she failed to inform me (until after it was over) that one of my cousins hosted a birthday party for a dying aunt who is not expected to live much longer. Most of my aunts and uncles, and every single one of my cousins, their spouses and their children were present -- as were my parents and my brother. My mother didn't bother to tell me or include me. And I've made a point of not talking to her since then. I just can't.
I just could not stand the thought of one of my children feeling the way I do right now.
My DH has a long, busy day and doesn't spend a lot of time with our DS either. Of course its' easier to do things with my DD. We have way more in common and lots more similar interests than DS amd I do. But, there's no way I'm gonna leave him out of anything because of that. Whenever we make plans to do something, DD and I always ask each other if it's something DS will enjoy too, and we often change plans so that we can all do something together. Sure DD gets annoyed because we can't always see a chick-flick or do girly shopping, but we're a family.
As far as your DS personal expenses go, I do think it's time he started paying for some of them. I remember using babysitting money for anything outside of basics from the time I started doing it, then part-time jobs from that point on. My parents still helped out with the biggies (car insurance primarily). In that respect, I do think it is time for your DS to get at least a part-time job.
No offence taken to your post - I welcome the suggestions. Over the years I have always overcompensated I guess you can say with my son because my husband is never or has never been an involved parent. I've driven and taken him places he needs to go, enjoyed his company over the years, listened and talked with him and been totally involved in his life. We have had vacations has a family and he's always been included. I would love to see him and his dad spend more time together but unfortunately they butt heads when in the room more than five minutes together. I'm at my wits end with them - tired of playing referree and my husband is an incredible ass when it comes to the entire situation (thats another post).
Please dont get me wrong. I do try to include him whenever I can in things even though my daughter hates it as well but doesn't there come a time when you shouldnt have to worry about it? I dont intend that to come across as being hurtful and mean but shouldnt I be able to have a mother/daughter time once a year and not have to worry about inviting him? I am already planning on taking him to Vegas for his 21st (which he knows about) - just me and him.
I totally agree with what you said about paying for things and i will definitely heed your advice on that.
Thanks for your understanding. It came across in your post, at least to me, that leaving DS behind was something that happened regularly. For me, as long as my DS was living in the house, I'd worry about him feeling left out, but of course moms and daughters should have their girly time together.
I'd probably say something in advance to DS -- I'd like to take DD to ??? on Saturday. I know it's not something you want to do/see/etc, but I'd like to know that you won't be home alone, bored. Do you have something to do that day so I won't worry so much? He's old enough that you don't have to actually make plans for him, which is what I have to do with my DS. He's only 11, so it's a bit different.
In the opinion of my DH, I overcompensate now for my mother's shortcomings as a parent when I was growing up. There may be some truth to that, given how I interpreted your post.
Good luck with getting him to get a job. Hey, if he did have a job, he'd most likely be busy working on Saturdays anyway.
Julie, I can't tell you how sorry I am that your mother treats you this way. I just cannot fathom it - most mothers are rejected by their daughters, not the other way around. Do you have any idea why she excludes you this way? Have you ever confronted her? What happened between the two of you? Did you and she have a difficult time during the teen years, and just never came back from there or has she just always favored your brother? I just don't get it, and I can see how this would really color your perception throughout the rest of your life - your relationship with your mother is such a fundamental part of how you see the world and yourself in it.
When you get over the raw hurt of this most recent exclusion, if I were you I would try to confront and ask her why she does this, and tell her how much it hurts you.
Hi, I read this earlier and needed to think about it as part of your dilemma hits home with me and my two dd's, ages 16 and 18.
Early on it was apparent that my dd's were as different as night and day. For the most part, my 18dd has generally been an easier child growing up, go with the flow, loves most of all the same things I do, etc. We have the same sense of humor and basically ours is a very easy relationship. (Don't get me wrong, she can be as big a PITA as the next teen at times too!) My 16dd, OTOH, hs always bucked the tides, has some behavioral issues along with neurobio disorders going on - she's always pushed my buttons and tested me every step of the way. She'a always been difficult.
No matter what we planned, we always tried to include her. There were some dark years where, I will admit, I secretly hoped 16dd would decline the invite...but I always put it out there. There were times when I adamantly refused to go to the mall because I KNEW that 16dd would act up and it wouldn't be an enjoyable experience - this would crush 18dd because she's always loved the mall. Same thing with certain movies and activities when we were on vaca. 16dd always makes fun of 18dd for being a 'girly-girl' and prided herself on being 'tough'.
Truth be told, inside, she is not so tough. Over the years, I've struggled and but have found a few things that interest dd16, things I thought she might enjoy. And we've actually grown closer. Now we have private jokes and enjoy our time together. Part of this closeness can also be related to the fact that I've had to be her very strong voice and advocate in school, etc., due to her disorders. I also think that part of it has been due to her own maturity and acceptance of who she is and learning to go with the flow once in a while. She has softened a bit and has learned through some very difficult experiences that it's okay to be a 'girly-girl' once in a while. LOL
In any event, I think it's important to make each one of our children be a part of things, be invited and allow them the opportunity to bow out or decline the invite. I imagine it might be a little late in the game for DH to step up and suddenly have a close relationship with his son, but maybe planning a day together while you and dd are away would be nice, even if it's slightly forced or uncomfortable - it could change things and take on a twist that would help ds feel more comfortable with you and H.
It's normal, IMO, for siblings to always feel that one of them was 'closer' with mom or dad. For instance, I KNOW one of my sister's is my mother's favorite - all of us (there are 4 siblings) know this. I think it's important for each child to feel it has an important place in the family and it's up to you and H to make that happen. Just because he's 18 doesn't mean he doesn't want or need to feel loved and wanted and needed - he needs to be a part of things. Even stray kids who stay at our house are treated like family - to the point where I sometimes just call them my kids - and my own kids tease me about maybe I should've had more!
Regarding the expenses: There's no reason why your son should not be working part time and paying for some of his own expenses. My 18dd works part time and pays her own car insurance, cell bill and gas. And in the summer, she buys her own clothes with the extra money from the hours she puts in. I buy the essentials and cover her food and housing, but she picks up the extras.
Best of luck - and I hope I didn't offend!
No offence taken - thank you so much for all the advice, especially the part about DH spending some one on one time with my son. My son really enjoys outdoor stuff like quadding, camping etc. We only have one quad so most of the time DH goes with his buddies and leaves son behind (hurts me to no end and I'm sure my son as well although he'd never admit it). Nothing would make my son happier than hubby taking him for an 18th b-day outdoors weekend - include him in the boys weekend away. I think I will suggest that to him.
My daughter turns 13 within 2 weeks of my son turning 18 and my girlfriend and I (who are best friends - our daughters are the same age and also best friends) were going to take our girls away on a weekend to celebrate their b-days instead of having parties so maybe if my husband does the same, things will be good. I just hope they can get past their differences to do this though.
I feel so bad for my son because I know all he wants is love and acceptance from his dad. So much time has passed though and lots of bad feelings - not sure if its too late or not. My husband really needs to be the adult here and do something about it. Boys need father/son time just as there needs to be mom/daughter time. I just dont think my son would enjoy coming with the "women" on a trip but on the otherhand would probably deep down feel left out.
Sigh - such a dilemma!!
<<... the raw hurt of this most recent exclusion...>>
That pretty much sums up what I've been feeling the last few weeks, mom dragonfly. It doesn't make sense to me, either.
For a long time, I justified her actions by the fact she didn't have much of a parental figure to model herself after. Her dad was killed when she was a young teen, and she was 16 and my dad was 18 when they got married, and unless there is a miscarriage on the record I don't know about, theirs was not a 'shotgun' or 'have to' wedding. It was five years before they had a child. Her own mother died quite young, too.
But in light of recent events, I can't buy that excuse. I guess what it comes down to is that my mother just really doesn't care to have any more of a relationship with me than what we have. It's what we've always had -- a very superficial relationship. She always provided for me, she still does call regularly to "check-in" (usually briefly because she is on her way out the door to cards, lunch, movies, shopping with her friends). But no, nothing major or monumental happened between us when I was growing up. There was no mother/daughter teen angst because quite frankly, she didn't much care what I did or who I did it with. I remember sitting across the dinner table from her as a teenager with hickeys all over my neck and her not saying a word about it.
Perhaps I am not the daughter she dreamed of having, but I don't think she even gave that much thought. I think more so, that she is ashamed, or is embarrassed by me. I can't think why. Granted I'm not young, thin and cute anymore, (and even when I was, she seemed embarrassed by me) but as far as middle-aged women go, I don't think I'm too bad. Even with about 25 extra pounds :-)
Anyway, I think I reacted the way I did to tamarhar's post because when you feel rejected by your own family, even when you're 44 years old, you tend to think "what's so wrong with me that even my own mother doesn't like me?" and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Sometimes it has far-reaching impact. My husband and his brother -- two sons -- never went on any trips with their mum. She has family in Italy and when she went back to visit her mother and cousins would only bring her daughter. My husband and his brother never got to meet their grandmother, nor did they form any relationship with cousins nor did they gain any appreciation for their heritage or, in the case of my husband, his birthplace (his parents immigrated when he was <1 yr old). Basically they were relegated to second class citizens. The daughter got to go, the sons stayed home with dad, who, by the way, supervised them quite loosely and allowed them to get into all sorts of trouble while mom was away.
I'd say neither of them had very positive role models in either parent. And I see them now, in their 40s STILL struggling with finances and relationships.
I think its because there were both (a) very little clear expectations set for the boys and (b) very little real attention or affection for them. When they started to get into a bit of trouble mum and dad threw up their hands, gave up on them and hence...they gave up on themselves.
Your son is turning 18 and he doesn't have a close relationship with dad and no apparent direction or ambition. Well, if you don't turn the tide now, he may be lost for good so my feelings would be to:
a. tell him you're going to give him a budget/allowance for the necessities but that if he wants to get a part-time job that you will support him in that;
b. one way to support him is to tell him that if he enrols in a post-secondary program (either at college or university) that you will support him throughout the school year as long as he works during the summer and breaks and puts savings aside;
b. do the trip thing but instead of making it a "girl trip", make it a "family trip" -- try to learn what he is empassioned about -- what motivates him and makes him tick -- maybe on these field trips you can find that out.
Don't push him aside -- be ON his side...
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6 months after graduating from high school, if they are not continuing their education.
It's really not about turning 18, it's more about taking responsibility for their life.
If they are still in high school at 18, it's even more of a non-event.
My kids have two choices after high school graduation.
Work full time and pay me reasonable room and board, still subject to my house rules (modified for a young adult). or
Continue their education and I (including student loans & scholarships) pay for everything other than their cell phone, gas, and spending money.
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I don't think ther are very many truly "lazy" people; just unmotivated ones. The combination of the harsh reality of supporting oneself plus a bit of immaturity may be paralyzing your son into inaction. It sounds like he's already shut down to some degree.
Your H is certainly not helping the situation. He needs him now more than ever to answer all those questions he has in his head but probably not verbalizing...."What do I want to do with my life?" is a daunting task to deal with. It looks like all this is on your shoulders.
My father died when I was 17. It was at a point where the teen BS was over and I actually realized he DID know what he was talking about. We had developed an adult relationship then he got sick. That's a turning point age right after high school with lots of decisions to make and directions to go. The questions and guidance I needed were far reaching... and he wasn't there. This may sound harsh, but H really needs to re-evaluate his relationship with DS. It's not too late. Regardless of whatever teenage crap DS may have done in the past, regardless if H isn't interested in what DS is interested in, regardless of anything else, it's time for H to shelve whatever anger, resentment or disappointment he feels and step up to the plate and model being a man. His son really needs him now. I just cannot fathom this.
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The trips are a seperate issue and shouldn't have anything to do with his being 18. I wouldn't feel guilty not taking him on a trip with 2 women and a 13 yr old girl. (Yeesh..lol)
In fact, it's better if he has his own vacation time with you doing what 18 yr. old boys like to do.
God bless you for being there for your son.
"When do you quit paying for their clothing, personal hygiene expenses, spending money, etc?"
I stopped about 2 years ago, when he turned 16 and got his own car, etc. I do pay for some things, but he has to ASK for them. I don't automatically buy his personal care products or clothing or whatever. If he wants a car, he has to pay his insurance, gas, up keep. If he wants his phone, he has to pay for that, too. Out to the movies? That comes out of his pocket, too!