the nuclear family (+teens)

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-13-2007
the nuclear family (+teens)
9
Sat, 01-13-2007 - 12:13pm

Hi. This is my second attempt. LOL So much happens in a family that it's hard not to mention the years that brought us to this point. But it's too much to ask anyone to sift through. So I'll try again. :)

My 15 yr old DD has always been very strong willed and in the past few years has become very argumenative. So dealing with her has always been a challenge. But the last 3 have been a nightmare. I'm grateful (if you can be) that it's all within the home and she isn't out in the world behaving this way (yet). But that's what I'm afraid of.

Currently, (5 months ago) I moved 100 miles away from our hometown do to my husband's (her stepdad) job. She was living with me when we made this decision and although she had reservations (leaving her friends, school, familiar territory) she agreed to make the move. She made it all of 9 days (6 days in her new school). She had plans to go 'back home' for the weekend, but wanted to leave Friday and miss school. I said absolutely not, she could go Sat. morning. Things got very explosive, her threatening to just move back to her dad's. Long story short, her dad picked her up Sat morning and she called Sunday to say she was staying. He knew she was fighting with me (and had a screaming match with my husband) and he went in for the satisfaction of winning her back. It worked. She asked me to send her things to his house. So she moved back. Unfortunately, her dad is irrational and neurotic. I don't mean that viciously, it's the truth. I told her to seriously think it through. I know she misses her friends, but in time we will all adjust and we can visit. She said she'd thought it through and she's staying.

Well, early November it began. She missed curfew and her dad started his b.s. Demanding that she talk to him and come up with her own punishment and write a 4 page essay on disrespect. Things escalated from there. A week before Thanksgiving he called to say he couldn't handle her and was bringing her to me. I decided it's time for tough love and said NO. You wanted her, she wanted to come there, you guys work it out. Well, a week before Christmas things got even worse. She ran away because of the things that were happening. He put her in the car and said he was bringing her to me. Again, I said no way. He tried taking her to a shelter home for girls and they wouldn't take her because she hadn't done anything 'wrong'. So he took her home and said she was free to go if she chose!!

After much discussion with my DH, I had no choice but to bring her back here. She was out of options at her dad's. So I gave her a week to say goodbye to her friends (she stayed with a friend). I made some very specific rules for her to follow and otherwise have tried to give her a wide berth. My husband has very rigid ideas about parenting, however. I'm trying to allow her time to adjust and just be ok, meanwhile telling her what is expected of her. She has a mouth that just won't stop, very snide and very sarcastic. She gets you on the technicality! For that, I don't tolerate, and tell her "I will not allow you to talk to me that way." I warn her once, if she continues I use room grouning for 30 minutes the first offense, 2 hours the second, and all day the 3rd.

What I'm asking of her isn't too much, but she fights me at every turn. The biggest is her mouth and phone time. I started with simply a 10 curfew on phone time. But she was on it morning, noon, and night. She started school last week, and is on it from 3 pm on, unless she HAS to get off for something. So I tried a 90 minute time limit, making her check the phone out and in to document time usage. That didn't work, because I'd be busy with dinner or otherwise detained and she'd get on the phone. So I told her last night, you get the phone 2 times a day. PERIOD. And you'll use your time wisely. No specific time frame, but when I say so.

My husband is like a police sergant, watching to make sure I follow through with the guidelines we layed out. If she's doing something against the list we made, he's telling me about it and asking what I'm going to do. So I have him to contend with, on top of her attitude.

I have the mind to teach by example, and give her examples of what's right and wrong, giving her natural consequenses. But he's so angry at her for the past episodes, he wants perfection from her. Their anomosity for each other is really thick. So I'm caught between them, for one.

I guess there's no easy way to wrap this up, with any kind of solid question. Maybe I'm just venting. There's too much that needs answers. I just want peace and harmony, but feel like I'm living in a mad house!! He can't stand her, she is just generally spiteful to anyone of authority. We asked her who she respected. She said 'those who respect me' but she couldn't list ONE adult she respects. Lovely!

I keep thinking I have enough love and patience for all of us, but some days I feel so trapped by them. :(

I guess I'll close and hope for some positive feedback. :) Vanessa

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 01-13-2007 - 1:34pm

I feel like this is coming across as picking apart your post but please understand it is hard to get the whole story from a message board

I DO think DH is correct that any guidelines you set need to be enforced. I dont think that is drill sargeant like. If you are overwhelmed by what you have set, then you go back and re evaluate. Looking the other way out of exhaustion(no matter how valid)just causes you to lose ground

The phone? Your original rule of no phone after 10pm was perfect. So why did you change it? Was she following the 10 pm rule? There are very valid reasons for taking the phone away at ten and I would physically take it away(confiscate the cell-remove the land line from the jack)I had to do this computers with my boys-the alternative was getting up at 2 am to check on them and I wasnt going to set myself up to do THAT because I guarantee I would fail!!

The further phone restrictions come across to me as trying to control her for the sake of controlling her. It's her time. If she is getting decent grades, doing household chores,showing up for dinner on time, participating in 'family' activities.... I think you need to cut her some slack here. Especially if she is talking to old friends or trying to make new ones

The mouth? Well, that's a tough one. Asking for "peace and harmony" with a teen in the house is like asking for world peace-it aint gonna happen! And its supposed to be that way-teens are supposed to become their own people, question what they have been told, spread their wings, and, yes, make us just a little more ready for them to move on and away from us.

I dont know how long the list is but it might need some paring down-curfew, grade expectations, bedtime(can tie this is with phone/computer usage), chores, and 'the mouth'.I would try to give something specific about the mouth as that is difficult to define for someone even though WE know what feels disrespectful-I think it takes some non-punishment time where you state 'that is disrespectful' without consequences and walk away. Once you are confident SHE knows, you can go with punishment although walking away is a very useful strategy(keep a nice book in the bathroom)

Good luck and I hope this wasnt too negative-it was just what struck me when I read your post

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Registered: 12-14-2006
Sat, 01-13-2007 - 9:43pm

You're right - there's an awful lot in your post, and hard to respond to a situation that's taken years to get to where it is. I have two thoughts, though

YOu said <<>> and <<>>. Both of these indicate a serious need for family counseling. You don't say how long step-dad has been in the picture, but he's certainly NOT being an effective parent to your DD. Why should she respect someone who openly hates her and doesn't trust her??

Second - instead a long list of rules and punishments, why don't you try a short list of goals and rewards - like "get grades above a __, get your phone back" or "use a respectful voice with me, and we can visit your friends on Saturday". You and your DD can work out the specifics.

Honestly, I can't imagine living in a situation where all the adults expect you to screw up, and then punish you when you do.

Finally, "snide and sarcastic" pretty much describes the teen-age years. If I confronted my DD every time she muttered under her breath or rolled her eyes, we'd be fighting alot! Instead, I focus on the bigger picture, ignore the snideness, and let her know I'll be able to answer her when she talks to me respectfully.

HTH

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-05-2006
Sun, 01-14-2007 - 8:40am

Hi: I just wanted to add my two cents.
I can understand your feeling trapped. You are definitely between a rock and a hard place.

I have had a lot of "disrespect" issues with my DD 15. The internet, phone, language, yelling and even her tone of voice etc. were all issues. I have found out the hard way that punishments don't really help at this age. At least not with my DD. I still use them, just not as much. What I found worked for me, not at first mind you. It took some adjusting., was talking to her as an adult, asking her what she wanted within the family, what we could do to get along, what we could do to make things work and whenever she broke a rule, what she thought would be proper disciplinary action for it. (In this I asked her to be fair but at times I felt the punishment was too lienient but if I was able to live with it I would and if I was not I asked her for more.) Together we came up with a plan and have mainly stuck to it. It has been more than a year now since we implemented this. We still have our ups and downs but for the most part she is now acting more responsibe and mature and there is more harmony in the house. I think she just needed to feel like she really belonged. Also, when she does make a mistake or break a rule I more often then not talk about it with her rather than punish her and she now usually does not make the same mistake twice. I also try not to forget that kids will push the limit from time to time. Almost testing to see if you will let them get away with something that you haven't let them get away with in the past. Normal behavior.

As for your husband and daughter, Well, I can't really comment on that as I have never been there but perhaps councelling would help or you having a long long talk with your husband and ask what he wants from the family relationship and perhaps later he could have a sit down with your daughter. Just the two of them.

S.

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Registered: 10-16-1999
Sun, 01-14-2007 - 9:32am

My first thought when reading your post was, does your DH have children of his own? If so, how old are they and how involved with them is he? Black and white parenting works when the kids are younger, but IMHO it's a recipe for disaster with teens. You have to be consistent - such as the 10 p.m. phone rule, which seems very reasonable to me - but also flexible in letting things go. The snide comments and eye rolls aren't that big of a deal, in the big picture, and if you corner her every time she does it, she's going to fight back. Let some things go, and concentrate on the big things. Not all battles are of equal importance, and sometimes a little flexibility is the start of things getting better. I fully agree with those who said family counseling might be in order. It seems to me that your DH has some unrealistic expectations of DD.

I agree with whoever said that it has to be awful for DD to be living in a situation where the adults in her life expect her to screw up and then punish her when she does. Are there any positives that your DD can see? Do you ever compliment her on things that are positive. Sometimes you've got to LOOK for the positives, but it will make your DD feel better about the situation if you find them and comment on them. Does she look especially nice this morning? Let her know it. Did she do a really good job on that science project? Tell her so. Did she do a little something around the house without being asked? Thank her for it. Can you imagine living in a situation where the people with all the power have only negative interactions with you? I have a feeling that's what your DD feels like.

In just 3 years your DD will be 18 and probably on her own in some way, shape or form... and those years go really, really fast. Trust me, I have 2 DSs 22 and one 19 - and DD 15. What are you doing to prepare her for that day? And I'm not talking about things like cooking a meal, doing her laundry and picking up after herself. I'm thinking more along the lines of thinking for herself, making her own decisions, and accepting the consequences of those decisions. Thinking things thru, weighing the pros and cons of a choice she makes before she makes it. Her job now is to learn to spread her wings with the safety net of your supervision and guidance so that she can do it safely and (somewhat) wisely three years from now... and in order to do that, you have to give her enough freedom to make those choices. Is she always going to make good choices? Of course not, she's still learning, but then again, she didn't learn to walk without falling a few times either, did she?

You say your DH wants perfection from DD. Is he perfect himself, never making mistakes? He NEVER messes up, is never inconsiderate of someone, never makes a bad decision, never neglects to do something? I doubt it. Until he can honestly say that he NEVER messes up, he needs to back off your DD a little bit.

The one thing that comes thru your post loud and clear is your DD's mouth. That's normal for that age, they all start spouting off. Let it go, don't start fighting with her. YOU are the adult, it's up to you to set the tone. If she's snide or sarcastic with you, if you respond in kind, you've sunk to her level. If you respond calmly that "we'll talk about this later, when you can do so calmly, without sarcasm" what have you said that will fuel her attitude? Pretty much nothing. But if you respond in kind, you'll get escalating attitudes from her. She might not even realize that she's being snide, sarcastic or disrespectful, especially if she's hearing a lot of that between you and DH or from you and DH directed at her.

Remember what it was like to be 15? Your body is doing all kinds of new things that you don't understand and don't know how to cope with. Your social circle is in a constant state of flux, coz all your friends are living with their own horomonal changes. People expect you to act like an adult but treat you like a child. Expectations at school and among friends are a whole lot different than anything you've experienced thus far, and it's all so confusing some days that sometime you just can't take one more minute of it. Toss into the mix that your DD has moved to a new community, a new school, a whole new social circle... and those kids can be awful to the new kid in town. Cut the girl a little slack, she's probably doing the best she can with what she's got going on in her life.
Rose

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Registered: 01-13-2007
Sun, 01-14-2007 - 9:22pm

I want to thank everyone who's given feedback here. Yes, I realize it was a loaded post and alot of stuff going on can't be addressed in one sitting. Several people have suggested counselling. I don't know why I'm so reluctant to do so. Partly because I know it would take years to unravel what we've done over the past ten! That sounds pathetic, I'm sure.

Someone asked if my husband has kids. We've had 3 together in the past 5 years. We raised my oldest daughter, also. She's almost 20 and a pretty good kid. I swear my problem with this one (the 15 yr old) is I raised my oldest first! She would test the boundaries, and test us, but quickly learned we were the tickets to her freedom. So she followed the rules, helped out around the house, and was generally respectful. We could trust what she said, and rarely had to ground her.

Anyway. I just want to thank you all (again) :) for your replies. I woke up with a new attitude today. I let go of a few things (pick and choose your battles).

Have a good day! :) Vanessa

Avatar for heartsandroses2002
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 01-15-2007 - 10:53am

Hello~ I read your first and last post but not the other responses. A couple of things stuck out for me in both of your posts that, if you don't mind, I would like to address.

The first is that being a step family is by far one of the most difficult tasks to accomplish, so don't be so hard on yourself, your H or your dd when it comes to things running smoothly. Each of you has your own ideas about what is the 'right' way to proceed. Add to that your dd's typical teen self centeredness and ability to throw around a fair amount of guilt at you and her dad and even her step dad, and you've got a nightmare. Counseling in regards to this specific situation does not necessarily entail going over your past and rehashing every little thing that she, h, exh, or you've done wrong! Counseling at this point is a matter of reviewing where everyone stands and figuring out which method(s) will work best for everyone. A good counselor who is experienced with step families will guide you & your H to become the leaders you need to be and to work as a team. A good counselor will help you to decipher which issues are Basket A (very important) and which are Basket B (mildly important) and which are Basket C (not that important). A good counselor will not judge you or guilt you into doing things their way - but rather, they will help you develop methods that work with your family and are effective. Counseling is not a means to an end - it's a way to help all of you cope and parent more effectively.

Second, imagine how trapped your dd felt when she wanted to flee her dad's house but you denied her access to yours. I understand that you're feeling trapped (BTDT with my own H, my dd's stepdad) but you're an adult and if you can't figure it out on your own, then bite the bullet and seek help from someone who can help you to do so, i.e., a qualified family counselor. Your dd is a young girl, obviously mixed up and tugging on whomever's heartstrings will allow her! It's time to take back control - there is no one method of doing so and she will rebel and it will be a long and difficult journey, but the alternatives are not pretty. Your dd needs to feel that you're goal is more about guiding her and helping her attain adulthood in a respectful, responsible and loving manner, and not about simply having control and micromanaging her all the time. She needs the reassurance that while a mother's love is always yielding and available and unconditional, you also demand respect and consideration for your feelings as well. Her responsibility to your family is just as important as your responsibility to her as a parent. It's a two way street and a family is a team that must work together. Right now she's ruling your home and that's not okay. Counseling should help you to regain control of your home and allow her the freedom to make mistakes and grow up without ruining everyone's life in the process.

And another thing: your H needs to stop bringing up the past all the time and throwing it in dd's or your face. Move on, get over it and figure out what he needs to do in order to let the past go so you all can focus on the future. He may want to be a seargent, but in a family, there are no bosses. Family is about working together and finding a way to function so that everyone is in control of themselves, responsible to one another and accountable for themselves. It's not easy, but he has to stop being such a control freak. It is amazing to me how many families try to run this way and can't figure out why there is so much resentment in the home.

And lastly, which kind of cycles back to what I said earlier: You need to choose your battles. Often the best way for a person to learn their lesson is through failure and repurcussions or consequences of thier behavior. Sometime I have to bite my tongue till it bleeds and allow dd17 to fall flat on her nose and learn her lesson on her own. Because all the talking, negotiating and grounding in the world isn't going to teach her! I remember my mom saying something about my siblings and I having to hit the brick wall before we learned...IOW, we always seemed to have to learn the hard way. And we did, but we learned. I recall the point at which my mom threw up her hands over me and I equally recall the moment in which she stepped in because she felt it was time. She was there for me when I needed her most, never said, "I told you so" and loved me till I was okay. I had resentment and anger, frustration and remorse for my prior behavior but she loved me anyway.

Again, being a step family is not easy and counseling can help. I hope you're able to get over whatever it is that's holding you back and make an appt. Even if H refuses to go, you should go anyway. Incidentally, when our family went to counseling, we didn't always go together. There were times when older dd went, younger dd went, H went, I went, I went with dd or H and I went, etc. It really saved us!

Hugs and best of luck!

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-1999
Tue, 01-16-2007 - 1:04pm

You must be really busy w/ a teen and 3 little kids too.

I can totally sympathize w/ the interaction between DD and DH (stepfather). We have the same kind of thing going on in our house. My DD is 17 and she is a really good kid but she and DH have never gotten along. I naively thought that as she got to know him, she would at least tolerate him, if not like him, but it has actually gotten worse. The other day he & I were having a conversation and he was saying something about how he hates it when he asks her a question and she rolls her eyes at him. I can see his point. However, he sounds like your DH in some ways in that I think he is overly strict. I also think that his parenting style is not something I would like to follow since his relationship w/ his own 16 yo DD really isn't that good. At least I feel that my kids (I also have an 11 yo DS) and I have a good relationship and that they actually talk to me about their problems and they know I will listen.

For ex, he makes a big deal about it when my DD is a little late coming home. Since she is under 18, she is not allowed to drive after midnight. Luckily, he doesn't say it to her directly, since we did reach a compromise that when my kids do something that bothers him, he will tell me & I will tell them, thereby lowering their resentment of him. On most of the times she is late (and it doesn't happen every time), it's usually w/in 5 mins. I personally wouldn't even mention it as long as she is home safe and sound. The one time she was really late (12:45), and I happened to get up and notice it, I called her and told her to come home right away and I was really upset, so that hasn't happened again. I did tell her that I would rather have her home by 11:45 or so, so that gives her extra time to spare if she gets red lights or something so she doesn't have to speed, but to me, I feel that she knows the rules and if she gets caught, she's the one who will have to pay the ticket, so it's more learn by experience. I am really happy that she will be 18 very soon, so there's one less thing to worry about.

I feel that he will dwell on every little thing and not see the big picture, that here's a girl who is almost out of high school. She's in the top 10% of her class, already got accepted to one college (we're waiting to hear on the others), we have never had problems w/ drinking, drugs, sex, or anything, so he should be relieved. Meanwhile, he is the stricter parent and we have had more problems w/ his DD, such as skipping school, failing classes, not obeying the rules by talking on the cell phone late at night, etc. When we got both girls cell phone, he was so certain that it would be my DD who would go over the minutes, and it was exactly the opposite. His DD over-charged by hundreds of $$. We have never had to take the phone away from my DD. When the over-charging happened, my DD even said "why would E be using her cell phone during the day when she's home when she could just use the home phone?" It was obvious to her. (We have free nights that start at 9:00 p.m. but during the afternoon, it uses up the minutes.) Well, I think part of it was that my DSD was calling people out of state that we didn't even know, so we wouldn't find out. My DH has had to take the phone away from his DD because she was making calls late at night on school nights, and then she would lie about it, even though she knows we can check the phone bill to see every call. So his plan of being very strict hasn't worked at all. That's why I agree w/ others that you have to look at the big picture and not dwell on every little thing that they do wrong.

Plus if your DH can't forgive your DD for what went on in the past, then what is the point of her trying now? She might get the feeling that no matter what she does, it won't matter since he will always hold it against her. I do believe that some kind of counselling is in order. Maybe you alone (I am thinking about that myself), or the 2 of you together to come to some agreement about how to raise your DD. Believe me, I never knew it would be so hard to have a blended family, or I probably wouldn't have done it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-13-2007
Wed, 01-17-2007 - 12:19pm

Hi. Again, I want to thank everyone that replied to my post. As I read each one, I was able to 'think outside the box'. The ideas I gathered here helped me approach both my DD and DH. I simply told DH the things that grabbed my attention here, such as, why should she respect someone who openly hates and distrusts her. And he expects her to screw up, then punishes her for doing so.

I asked DD to clean the kitchen the other night and she did a very poor job. I'd gone to the store and my DH was waiting outside for me when I got home. He said she didn't do half what was expected of her. Basically, what was I going to do about it! I took her to our room and had a talk to her. Not about grounding and discipline, or attacking her for not doing the kitchen. I opened the door to mutual trust. She expected a direct punishment and then tried to argue. I stopped her several times and said "we're just talking here, ok?" LOL She was a little taken back that I didn't scold her or demand some specific thing from her. But she told me a few things that I did not know, about her relationship with me and her dad, verses her friendships.

SO I watched Supernanny Monday night. There were 2 boys that were out of control, cussing and hitting their mother. Long story short, they set up an arrangement to earn computer time. My DH and I jumped on that. Her phone and internet usage is a cause for arguement. So after school I approached her and said she would earn her computer and phone time. She instantly got resentful. She said it's YOUR house and YOUR kids and I don't feel it's MY job to clean up after them. I tried again, in the spirit of 'this is OUR house, OUR family, and I could use your help. Regardless, you can find the chore or other way to be helpful to earn the phone/computer and I will match that with a reasonable time.

She went to her room, rather mad at me. A little while later she came to me with an 'agreement'. She outlined the basic 'chores' and responsibilities we've been working on. She said she's willing to complete 'all of the above' including homework. If, after she's completed everything, she gets phone or computer time 'without restriction, but respectful of others wanting to use them'.

I didn't care for some of her verbage, but I'm telling you I was PROUD of her. I took it to DH and he started to pick it apart. NO way was she getting the phone/computer without limits. I left him alone for a few, then came back and said I thought she put alot of effort into it. She addressed what we want from her, and will do those things without being told. He agreed, and we 'signed' the agreement. I'm pretty proud of both of them!! :)

I just had to share this, after the total frustration and seemingly impossible position I was in between them. And isn't it amazing, the teenager is the one who drew up the contract? LOL

Thank you, Thank you!!!! :)

Vanessa and family

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Registered: 10-16-1999
Thu, 01-18-2007 - 7:37am

One thing that stuck out for me was when she said "they're YOUR kids and I'm tired of cleaning up after them." I'm the oldest of 9 kids, with 17 1/2 years between me and the youngest. I pretty much raised the last 5 kids until I went to college at 18, and when I was home for weekends or breaks, it was back to raising kids. Often to the detriment of my own social/work/school life - I ended up missing my senior prom because my sister was sick... long story. So needless to say, this is a very touchy issue for me. While I have no issues with the older kids helping out with the younger, I do have to ask just how much is DD expected to take care of/clean up after/ and supervise the younger kids? One thing my mother missed in a huge way is that at 10-17 y/o, *I* was still very much a kid, and I'm wondering if your DD is feeling a little the same way.

That said, I have on occasion had my oldest DSs keep an eye on DD for short periods of time - there are 7 years between them, almost 8. But 99% of the taking care of and cleaning up after her has always been my responsibility, she's my DD, not theirs. The guys never seemed to resent the times I did expect them to help with DD, and in fact, they are quite close now. Major surprise to me the other day - DD is 15, her b/f is 16. They are not allowed in our house unsupervised. I was at an evening meeting, DH was away at work, and DD wanted to make pizza for her b/f who was on his own for dinnr that night. She knew I was going to be at work that night, so she called J to see if he'd be home to "supervise" - coz "you know what mom's rules are." J agreed to supervise if he got some of N's pizza too (my kids were on their own for dinner too) and when I got home, J and the happy couple were watching a movie in the living room. As soon as I got home though, J headed back to his own corner of the world in his room in the basement - which he has set up pretty much like a studio apt complete with tv, video games, computer, little fridge and microwave. (Yes, I know, he doesn't need to join us for much of anything, but he's also 22 and the only thing keeping him here is $$) Anyway, I was surprised that DS agreed to be the supervisor so easily - but he does like the b/f, even if he does think T is a little immature.
Rose