Okay so what now?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-31-2003
Okay so what now?
10
Thu, 03-01-2007 - 9:54am

Okay - so lots of good responses from my previous post below however I need suggestions on what I should do now.

The kid spends his nights playing the Nintendo Wii that he got for Christmas and then sleeps all day. Do I give him a deadline AGAIN and say okay, this is the date that you have to have a job by - say two weeks from tomorrow - or pack up your stuff and you're gone OR do I say have a job by such and such a date or you lose all internet access? Ultimatums have never been that successful to be honest. OR do I just wait it out, bite my tongue and when his cellphone gets cut off due to lack of payment, he's got no money for gas in his car and his car insurance is due at the end of April, hope that jolts him back into reality again? I told him if he wanted to go back to school I would fully support that as well but I dont think thats going to happen.

Husband is NO help at all - just works, comes home and does his own thing. Never has stepped up to the plate as far as the parenting goes. I am so darn frustrated with this kid!!!! Just saddens me to no end because we had such a great time in Mexico and DS was such a joy to be around for that week. My stress level is up again which really stinks because everything was going so well for awhile. SIGH!

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-20-2005
Thu, 03-01-2007 - 11:16am

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I'd like to think I'd go this route (knowing full well that we have no idea what we will do until and unless we're faced with that situation). If ultimatums don't work, then why try to implement them? Allow him to suffer "natural consequences." If he doesn't pay his cell phone bill, the phone gets cut off. If he doesn't pay his car insurance, he can't drive (by the way, the question "how will I get to work?" is ludicrous...I have a few friends, as well as a son, who don't drive - they manage to find a way to get to work...where there's a will, there's a way).

You might want to take the "natural consequences" a little farther. You PAY for internet service, right? You PAY for electricity (which I assume is needed for the Wii), right? You PAY for groceries, right? Since you obviously can't CHARGE him if he's not working, you might want to negotiate "pay to play" rules - he only gets to use YOUR electricity and YOUR internet service if he does chores - or looks for a job - or something.

I made the rule last night that my son gets ONE hour of computer usage for every job application he completes - I was SICK of watching him hang on AIM, Myspace, and Youtube while he laid around on his duff...and then ask me for money to go out with his friends.

Might work.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-01-2007 - 1:09pm

I vote for waiting for the natural consequences to fall

Then, if that has no effect, you can look at doing something about the video gaming. I like mamarose's suggestion about earning time as you are paying for electricity, etc

The car is tricky. Is it in your name or his? We paid 6 mos of insurance for DS1 when he moved out and then made sure the car was retitled in only his name as he insisted he wasnt going to waste money on insurance. I dont know the legalities there but didnt want to risk us losing everything we have worked for by a car in our name being in an accident uninsured!!!

Turned out, despite all his big talk, DS1 stopped driving when we stopped paying and rode his bike to work; GF had a car for other purposes. He did that for 2-3 months until weather changed and then he looked long and hard for the best rates and got insured(lowest coverage the state allows BTW-DH and I are insured higher because we have more to lose-something else to consider)

So, think all that through carefully. I made decisions assuming the worst decision making on his part and that kept us 'safe' and allowed me to be pleasantly surprised when he made good decisions.

I have to say the biggest positive for both my older boys has been getting a GF!

DS2 was home from college complaining about a sore throat; I asked if he was smoking heavily(Ive seen Camels in his car in the past)

"Are you kidding? Julie would kill me!"

Sigh....As opposed to mom who was going to pat him on the back for smoking???

I don't know how you can facilitate the GF idea ;)? Perhaps help him focus on jobs with higher numbers of female personnel? Not too many female gamers out there.

DS1 met his GF at work-she took the initiative, of course. Guessing thats what it will take for yours as well but they have to at least be in the same vicinity!

Hospital, maybe?

Avatar for heartsandroses2002
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-01-2007 - 1:12pm

I think I'd start by taking away the Wii...talk about a motivation sucker.

I remember we once talked about a contract. Did you ever set yourselves up with a contract? You know, if he's not going to school and is expected to work, does he have to pay some rent to you and H? Does he do his own laundry? Is he expected to do certain weekly chores around the house, such as garbage duty, mowing the lawn, etc?

I personally think that you need to come up with ways of creating situations where he has to be held accountable and be responsible for himself and to the family as a whole. If you do not have a contract in place, I think you should draft one up. Make sure you create an easy to read outline type of contract and include points that are the most important to you and that have a particular goal in mind, i.e., ds's self sufficiency. Once you've completed this, sit with ds and go over it with him and ask him for his feedback. He may not want to sign a contract or may think you're just blowing smoke. But you must make it clear to him that if you're offering any ultimatums or consequences, you are going to stick with them. Do not bluff or threaten if you're not willing to follow through, tamahar.

MY H and I are sitting down tonight, in fact, to discuss dd's plans for after HS. We're in a slight disagreement. He wants to force her to attend a college, I do not. My feeling is she's essentially going to school (and easy school) for free right now and failing - what would be the purpose of paying for her to go to school and wasting our money? I would rather have her attend a tech school to learn a trade - hands on learning is her greatest tool, and then later on, if she wants to go to school, we can help her. But IMO, this kids needs to learn a way to support herself. If she's not going to school or not working, she has to move out on her 18th birthday. H disagrees. He feels if we make her go to school, she will eventually get with the program...I do not see that happening. I don't know the exact answer, but I don't want to have her living in my home, bringing home all sorts of worries and grief for me to deal with when I should be enjoying an empty nest and planning for my retirement.

I hope you're able to figure out a way for this to work with your ds. I wish your H was more involved - he's got the perfect opportunity to be a healthy role model for his son and he's blowing it. Good luck.

Avatar for heartsandroses2002
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-01-2007 - 1:26pm

>>>I made the rule last night that my son gets ONE hour of computer usage for every job application he completes - I was SICK of watching him hang on AIM, Myspace, and Youtube while he laid around on his duff...and then ask me for money to go out with his friends>>>

How old is your son? My dd is 17 and still a student. She has a job but is failing school. She has no access to the computer whatsoever. I made her delete her myspace and I actually unplug our home's router when I leave so she can't get on line when I'm not home. She is sneaky and will find a way to do so. Also, we took away her cell phone. And I postponed her driver's test. I don't care if she has to wait till she is 18 to get a cell or her license anymore, even if it means I'm driving her to work and picking her up. This is how she chose to live her life...she's just not interested enough in her education. I can't force feed the stuff into her brain. She's smart enough, just not interested. At work, she's doing swell. But at school, she's stinking bad.

I think at a certain age, time, whatever, parent's need to stop micromanaging thier kids or manipulating thier privileges to get them to do what we want them to do. I am at the point with my dd that there are no negotiations anymore. I simply take it away - whatever it is. Negotiating with a person who doesn't want to help themself is a waste of everyone's time. It's just like the alcoholic - you can't help them until they are willing to help themselves, right? By 16, I can confidentally say that our kids know what thier responsibilities are and what is expected of them, right? If they don't do it or live up to it or show no interest in being a responsible young adult, then why should we do cartwheels trying for them? The incentive for these young adults is FREEDOM. The freedom to make thier own money opens up the freedom to make thier own choices. What is a better incentive than that? That is what I don't understand.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-31-2003
Thu, 03-01-2007 - 1:26pm

The car, insurance, cellphone etc. are all in his own name. I did not want it falling back to me if he didnt pay them.

I dont buy him any special food - he eats whats there and if he's not there at dinner times, then oh well. He does his own laundry although thats sporadic (drives me crazy). As for chores, it has always been a fight with him and to the point now where mentally I can't stand it anymore. I pay my daughter to clean on the weekend and the rest I do myself. I know, I know, but I just got tired of all the stress.

I'm going to have another talk with him tonite and see if we can't come up with some kind of plan that doesnt turn into a heated argument - sigh!

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-20-2005
Thu, 03-01-2007 - 3:16pm

My son is 18 - and we've tried the "taking everything away" game - it doesn't work with him - if we take it away, he does without it.

He needs the computer for school (many of his papers need to be typed), and as for making him delete his myspace, so what? He'll go to the library or to school and create another one (and for those of you who think "they aren't allowed on myspace at school" - think again - they've all figured out how to do it). If he applies for ONE job, he gets ONE hour of computer time - a fair trade - him applying for a job is, from my perspective, a way of contributing to the family - so it's a "pay to play" gig.

As for the cell phone, it's not mine - his friend has him on his plan. He doesn't pay a dime, and the friend pays the bill every month - as my son is 18, I have no control over this (I am not going to get into a physical battle over the phone), and as long as his friend is stupid enough to pay the bill every month with no hope of reimbursement, it's not my business. He is not, however, allowed to take the phone to school.

(I do have a little secret here, though - his phone charger died, and we have the same model phone. I charge mine all night, and he plugs his phone into my charger when he leaves for school...because he doesn't have a job, he can't buy a new charger, and I won't buy him one - so when he behaves inappropriately, I simply take away MY charger. A day or two of not being able to use the phone because it's dead usually motivates him to step up.)

I don't believe in "taking things away" unless they are directly related to the situation at hand. This is why I used the example of paying electricity, laundry, etc. as earning privileges. It's MY computer, and MY electricity - so I can make whatever demands on him - or restrictions on it - that I want - and my attitude is "you aren't paying rent - so doing chores, finding a job, getting good grades, etc. - constitutes "paying rent." WHen you do those things, you can use MY stuff."

Because he is still my dependent, and I still collect child support, I am responsible for his food and shelter. Believe me when I tell you he gets NOTHING else. He is going to two proms in June - if he doesn't get a job, he'll have to find some other way to pay the expenses of these proms. I will not buy him a yearbook, he's not going on the Senior Class trip because I won't pay for it (I would have had he gotten decent grades), and he is now responsible for bringing me his laundry (we go to the laundromat and do laundry once a week). When he chooses not to bring me his laundry, he wears dirty clothes for a week (believe me, with a gay son, this is tantamount to DEATH).

I believe in natural rather than imposed consequences. I don't take the computer away for bad grades, but I do restrict his outside activity (my son hasn't been allowed out on a school night since October, when I got his progress report). He was always the kid whose room you could strip of all extra items - he'd sit in an empty room and sing. So that doesn't work.

While they may UNDERSTAND responsibility at 16, it doesn't mean they can exhibit it - so he suffers the natural consequences for not working - no movies, no new clothes (other than what he gets for Xmas and his bday), no haircuts, no proms, no CD's - after a while, he'll figure out that when adults want these things, they'll work. for them.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-20-2005
Thu, 03-01-2007 - 3:19pm

From what I can see, the natural consequence of his actions would definitely be in order here. He doesn't get a job, he will lose his car insurance, his phone, the same as adults do. No need to impose anything else.

As far as chores are concerned, I don't blame you for "giving up" (I did as well), but take it one step further...pay your DD extra for doing DS's dishes, for instance...and when DS leaves something laying around on the floor, throw it out. He'll learn quickly enough.

Don't get frustrated about his laundry - it's HIS - he wants to walk around in dirty clothes, that's his business. Again, if he leaves it laying around, throw it out.

As for the Wii, whose TV is it hooked up to? Did he pay for it himself? If not, take it away. If he did and he's using your tv, take it away. If not, unless you're going to police him 24/7, there's not much you can do about it, but believe me - in a few months, the Wii (and the inability to purchase new games) is going to get old rather quickly.

Avatar for heartsandroses2002
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-01-2007 - 3:37pm

I totally agree. My dd lost everything because she abused the privileges. It was a simple choice. I agree - I do not take away things that are not relevant. I think that's stupid.

My dd does not need the computer for school. She lost her privileges due to misuse. She may open another myspace, but she won't have access to it at my home. And her school is on notice not to allow computer use - and since the computer room is supervised, I'm relatively certain she's not using them at school. She could possibly use the one at the library, but she's not one to hang out in libraries - lol.

She lost her cell also due to misues. Being as she's 17, I do still have control there.

That's why I asked your son's age...at 18 we lose a lot of control over the situation and if they are still in HS, it really becomes difficult for parents of unmovitated kids. I feel for you, I am right beside you!

Isn't it so funny how they make plans for the prom and senior picnic and field trip? In our public school you cannot even participate if you're not passing your classes, so my dd may not even be able to attend those things. Does your school do that? Perhaps that could be a motivator?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-20-2005
Thu, 03-01-2007 - 4:01pm

Unfortunately, although my son's school DOES withhold school privileges for grades, in my son's case, they just want him out. They will pass him, and graduate him, because they don't know what to do with him (interestingly enough, he's not a BAD kid - he's just defiant).

I've gotten notices at home that he's missed several of one class. Why? Why is he being allowed to wander the halls? ANd why am I not called until he misses "several?"

As for proms, one of them isn't his - so he could be a bum and still be allowed to go. And you know what? I'm not going to start motivating him to do well in school now - he's had 11 1/2 years to do well - I just want him to pass. The motivation to go to the prom will be the money to rent a tux - which he is NOT getting from me.

Strangely enough, I have backed off on grades entirely. I just tell him I don't care anymore - I've spent 11 1/2 years fighting the system (he's LD and classified), and if he wants to blow his last four months, that's his problem - not mine. Since I've done that, his grades have gone up - not much, but up - go figure.

He's not going on the trip because the money was due in November - and I'm not paying for him to go to Florida for 4 days when he can't even pass English.

Funny story - he takes Independent Living - and has gotten 2 D's. Every time he tells me "I'm an adult and can do what I want" my response is always "Adults get themselves up in the morning, go to work, pay rent, and earn privileges. You can't even do well in a class where all you have to do is PRETEND to do those things!"

As for losing control, it's true we lose some when they turn 18 - but it's still my house. The phone, though, was never in my name and wasn't mine to take away. The argument wouldn't have been worth the victory. having it turned off by his friend when he hasn't paid the bill in 8-9 months (and no, I'm not kidding) will be priceless though.

And he is suffering natural consequence - if he had a job, he'd have a charger. If he'd do chores, I'd buy him a charger. If he'd pay his bill, his friend would buy him a charger. I get small victories out of being told "you can't take away my phone - it's not yours!" and I say "but the charger is" - take it, and leave.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-25-2006
Thu, 03-01-2007 - 4:23pm

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Oooohhh, that is so mean! I remember about 8 yrs ago when DH did that with DS23's clothes when he left them lying around--just threw them out in the garage, on the filthy floor. But I gotta say it worked.

I haven't had to take many of the measures you and the OPs here have, but I am storing all this info in the back of my head, knowing that some day I very well may need it.

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