Ready to scream!

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-1999
Ready to scream!
9
Fri, 12-15-2006 - 1:35pm

My DD 15 N is your basic good kid. Sweet (most of the time), helpful (most of the time), polite, good student, cheerleader, active in music, church and school activities. For the past 2 1/2 months she's been dating T, a "bad boy." T has a 'history' that would curl most parents' hair, though he's always sweet, kind, polite and fun to have around when he's here, which is most nights and about half the weekend.

He has, however spent most of the past 2 weeks in lunch hour detention, after school detention, and in school suspension... I suspect because he's more likely to tell a teacher "f*** you" than to comply with a request. He's currently on his second in school suspension this month, supposedly for telling the asst principal that he hates bald people. I'm positive there's more to the story than that, I know the asst principal fairly well, and while he expects a lot from the kids, he's also very fair in his enforcement of discipline, and actually will tolerate a lot of "silly teenage fun" before he says enough is enough. He's actually a former bad boy himself.

N is starting to get a bad attitude about school and teachers because "they're picking on T" - which I have NEVER seen to be the case in all the years I've dealt with the school. S was quite the bad boy when he was in high school, and actually even spent a month in juvenile detention his junior year, and he still didn't have much trouble with the teachers or asst principal. I'm not sure exactly what T is doing, but I'm 99% sure he's bringing all this disciplinary action on himself. I'm really worried about N and her attitude about school, which seems to be headed for the toilet pretty quick. Up until this past week she hasn't allowed T's bad attitude to color her own, but this week has been pretty bad. This morning I had quite a fight with her about whether she was going to school at all - yes she did end up going. I'm kind of at my wits end as to how to nip this one in the bud. She has some pretty lofty goals for herself, and she says she hasn't changed that, but if she doesn't do something about this attitude, she's never going to get into even a community college. Any ideas?
Rose - who eventually married her own 'bad boy' - so I have some idea what the attraction is!

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-14-2006
Fri, 12-15-2006 - 6:29pm

Sounds like N is struggling to find/keep her own ideas and personality, while listening to and absorbing the ideas of her friends and bf. Isn't that the basis of the whole teen identity thing - you sort of try out different 'personalities' until you find the one that works best for you. We've all (on this board) talked about goth clothes coming and going, toying with 'bad' friends, musical tastes evolving, attitudes towards parents going up and down..... Maybe this is what N is going through - and it's a temporary attitude thing.

Can you talk to her about this in a non-confrontational way - I have talked to L about her "bad" friend not in terms of stay away or she's dangerous, but in terms of 'she brings out the less good part of you' and 'she's at risk for herself and therefore puts you at risk'.

((HUGS))

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-14-2000
Sat, 12-16-2006 - 10:38pm
I sure don't have any advice, Rose but sending lots of cyber-hugs.
Pam
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-1999
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 9:07am

Things are going downhill here... T is grounded indefinitely, his phone is gone, computer is gone, so with his suspension, N hasn't talked to him since Thursday, and she's NOT a happy camper. She says "my b/f is f****** grounded and now I have no f******* life!" Where did she learn to talk like that?? Certainly not at home! I've not heard T talk like that either, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't. In a way, I'd like to get on the phone with his mom's b/f (who is apparently at the heart of all these restrictions) and tell him that he's not going to be making things better by isolating this kid from the world forever, he's just going to make T more angry which is just going to lead to more acting out. T's mom sees N as a good influence on him, and has encouraged this relationship, and in the past she has allowed T to talk to N on the phone when he's grounded. I suspect the b/f is trying to keep N and T apart coz N and his daughter do NOT get along, and they've had words almost every time they're within sight of each other. His DD is very definitely a troubled teen, currently pregnant at the age of 14 and at high risk because of her drinking and drug use. She doesn't live with the b/f, but is there every other weekend.

I guess I see a lot of troubled teens as being a product of their environment. Certainly not all, but a lot of the ones I see are really angry kids who come from homes where screaming, yelling, emotional neglect or abuse, and physical neglect or abuse are the norm. As I said, not all TT fall into that category, but a lot that I've seen do... S and T both included in that. T is often up late at night trying to protect his mother from the b/f's abuse, the one time I saw her she had a huge bruise on her face. He told N that the b/f has never laid a hand on him, coz he'd call CPS if he did, but he's always yelling at him and has locked him in his room for an entire weekend in the past. He had to resort to peeing out the window, because the b/f wouldn't let him out to use the bathroom but twice a day. Most often T gets in trouble at school when he's been up half the night trying to keep his mother from being beat according to N. The good news is, T's grandparents, who live about 15 miles from us, have helped his mother get a job and have helped her get a lease on a house in town here that they will be moving into Jan 1. The b/f doesn't know about the house, and the plan is for some friends help them move while the b/f is downtown watching the New Year's Day bowl games. T's grandparents have been wanting his mom to move out for 2 months already, and would have let the family (mom, T and his sis)move in with them, but they live in a 1 bedroom retirement apt and don't have the room.

My DH has known the b/f for 10 years or so, says he's an a$$h*** that beats on anyone he has the opportunity to best in a fight. He's well known for barfights downtown, is a heavy drinker, and barely holds a job. I've known T's grandparents for a couple of years through my job, and they seem like decent but frail elderly folks. I sure hope that T's mom is able to leave this situation with her parent's help, because I think T and his sister will be much better off if she does. She certainly wouldn't earn any mother of the year awards either, but she does seem to be trying to get her act together. I certainly hope that she does. In the mean time, I'm left to deal with N, who is totally stressed by this whole situation. I would like to tell her she can't see T anymore, but I know that would backfire on me, so we just spend a lot of time talking about her goals, values, and where she wants to be in life 10 years from now, and how she's going to get there.
Rose

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-07-2005
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 10:16am

I've never understood (and have even less sympathy for) women that move men in without considering the welfare of their children. And then let them stay, physically, emotionally and verbally abusing the whole family. Add to it letting that a** discipline her children makes me even madder.

Your daughter is very lucky to have someone like you to lead her through this time. And T will surely benefit from the move.

Give N hugs from us,
zz

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 2:42pm

Oh wow! I don't even know what to say or think about this, but how terrible for T to be stuck in a situation like that! Perhaps you might one day feel comfortable to share your past experiences with tt's with T's mother? After they are out of b/f's house, of course?

After reading your 1st post, I was going to suggest just maybe talking to N about her change in behavior -- but leaving T out of it. "I've noticed lately that you've been using language I really don't approve of or appreciate hearing. What's up with that?" sort of thing. Something similar about the attitude changes you've noticed.

I was also going to suggest limited time with T, but it seems like that might not be an issue for a while. I had coffee with a friend last week and her 16yo dd has her first 'real' boyfriend, and while they like the boy ok, have pretty much limited her time with her to one weekend night each week. They talk on the phone nightly, but she is not allowed to see him on school nights and the other weekend night she spends either with her family or g/f's. They do also see one another on Wed nights for Bible study.

At first I thought this seemed a little strict (remembering my own 'joined at the hip') first b/f days, but then I decided that this was really a pretty reasonable way to keep their dd focused on school and her goals, not lose sight of the importance of family and having g/f's, and still be able to maintain this relationship by allowing her to see or talk to her b/f nearly every day. I guess it is working fairly well for them, but since T's family situation is so much different, he probably enjoys being at your home and values that sense of 'normalcy'.

Sorry I wasn't more help. Let us know how things go!

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-1999
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 3:48pm

Oh, believe me, when T is here for what seems like every waking minute outside of school, I am so tempted to limit the amount of time that they spend together. But OTOH, part of the reason T is here so much when he is able to be is to avoid the PITA b/f. It almost seems like the b/f is targeting T in some way, because A, T's sister doesn't seem to be the target of his wrath near as often, even though she hates the b/f as much as T.

This is a little warning about taking internet romances too fast.... mom and b/f knew each other when they were in high school 15 yrs ago, and dated for a time, but then mom moved to GA with her husband about 12 years ago. Somehow she and b/f got back in touch after her divorce several years ago, but never met face to face until late this summer when she moved in with him. Until August this was an internet/telephone relationship, and of course the b/f could put his best face forward during that limited contact. Now she's in a situation that she's pretty much lost control of, and her children are suffering for it.

Well, the good thing about this "grounded indefinitely" thing (or as the b/f says: "til hell freezes over"), N is spending more time with her g/fs that she had limited contact with when T was more available. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that things will work out here... N is too young to be dealing with the kind of drama that is going on in T's family. Though truthfully, J was pretty much as wrapped up with the drama in S's family at this age too, and he managed to make mostly decent decisions then.
Rose

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 4:26pm

<<>

N's age would worry me too; granted my 15 yr old has always been young for his age but I cant see him taking this on, particularly with a teen of the opposite sex which has to elicit different emotions than a buddy!

Hopefully, hanging with the girls will be a good thing!

If T is as charming as you paint him(and to be the lady killer he is, he likely needs to be)he knows better than to use that language around you. But it may be non stop when you arent in ear shot

I would certainly bring it up to N-her own use, at least! Lecture HER about how it changes the way people perceive her, etc. Maybe she will make a connection??? We can always hope!

Married the bad boy, huh? What is it with that attraction anyhow? I didnt marry mine but definitely had a relationship like that! It does seem to be a girl thing.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2004
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 12:41am
Wow Rose...This poor boy comes with quite a background. I honestly don’t think I would handle it as well. Maybe at times I really am overprotective.
From your previous posts, N sounds fairly mature for her age and you communicate well with each other. I wonder if it may help to sit her down and calmly relate some of your observations about her changed behavior, attitude and language, and *really* spell it out for her.
Isn’t T spending so much time at your place and with N partly because you model a healthy home, and T can feel safe?
Isn’t T’s acceptance in your family (and as N’s BF) at least partly due to the expectation that he rise above his past? Isn’t it partly N’s responsibility to help “show” T the alternatives to his past?
It seems N is trying a few things on for size when it should be the other way around.
I would be concerned about suddenly not wanting to go to school and using bad language in front of you.
But I’d be especially concerned with her observation is that the school is “picking on” T.
-Red flag-. N may be falling for the excuses and lame explanations that TT’s seem to be so good at as a survival skill.
I’d be inclined to try to nip this in the bud by telling her that T needs to take responsibility for his own crap and she is not helping him at all by making excuses for him and stooping to the level of his past behavior.
Just a dads two cents…
Good luck and update!
D
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-1999
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 7:22am

Well, N and I went on a road trip yesterday so she could finish her Christmas shopping. Man, I love roadtrips, especially after dark!!!!

She and I talked about her standards of behavior, how she's always behaved and to be careful not to allow her friends to change those standards, because if she isn't true to herself she's the one that's going to end up hurt in the end. I never mentioned T by name, coz I'm sure that would bring up her defensive walls, but I hope she got the message. She's usually pretty perceptive and doesn't need things spelled out for her, so I'm hoping she heard the message this time. She did say that "C didn't let S change who she was, but she helped him change who HE was" so maybe she did get it. C and N have an awful lot in common, and the older N gets, the more like C she becomes... and this is not a bad thing. She looks up to her SIL, and I know they have talked about this whole "good girl dating a bad boy" thing, though I don't know what C might have told her. Though I have no doubt that what C said fits in very well with our values and expectations for N... and maybe N is more likely to take the advice to heart when it comes from someone closer to her peer group than her mom is.

You're so right about TTs being the masters of excuses... and T fits that role perfectly. He's charming, witty, and knows how to work people to his advantage - something that scares me where N is concerned. I see it happening here with me, and I usually try to call him on it in a gentle way... and he accepts it pretty well.

Today is the last day of T's suspension, though probably not the last day of his grounding, so it will be interesting to see how the week evolves. His foster family will be in town visiting on Saturday thru the New Year, and I suspect that they (especially the mom) are a really good influence on him. I think they are a pretty strong factor in his mom planning on getting a place of her own on the 1st also. A couple of weeks ago the mom called T while he was here, and he really laid a whole lot on her about how bad things have gotten with the b/f... and her advice to him was to spend as much time away from b/f as possible, hang out here if need be. N has met the foster family, and she says the mom is "just like you mom!" OK.... I hope that's a good thing! ;)

Still praying, and watchfully waiting to see how things evolve.
Rose