Rude Behavior or Just Shy??
Find a Conversation
| Tue, 09-04-2007 - 1:18pm |
This past weekend I had a debate with dd's bf over dd's shyness. BF's mother's family is very talkative and loud and they perceive anyone who doesn't talk as rude so needless to say they do not like my shy dd and think she is a snob. DD and bf have been together for 18 months and every time dd goes there for some family function this comes up for debate again. BF gets in an argument with his mother over the fact that dd is just shy but she insists that dd is rude. And then bf lectures DD that her shyness is just an excuse. My DD was extremely shy when she was younger and has really come out of her shell A LOT but she still has some social anxieties in large crowds and can tend to clam up. She says hi to everyone but then doesn't really talk unless someone talks to her (she's the same way with her OWN family!). She says that she just doesn't know what to say and she refuses to be fake and compliment someone if she doesn't really mean it especially since this woman makes no secret about not liking my dd. But BF feels she should walk into someone's house, say hello, ask how they are and compliment their home and how they look. My DD is soooo not like that! My DH was shy as well and he didn't start becoming more social until he was past 30 and DD is only 17 so she has a way to go yet. BF also insisted that dd send his mother an email thanking her for inviting her to the Labor Day picnic because when dd left later that night the mother was sleeping. I really don't think an email is necessary but maybe I'm just rude too. I've hosted many picnics and parties and if I happen to miss a few people as they head out the door I do not expect an email afterwards nor do I ever get one. I told the bf that he needs to accept DD for who she is and that if it bothers him that much then he needs to find someone else that is more social to fit into his loud family.
While I believe in respect and proper manners I do not like false flattery that often time comes in small talk...I would call that butt kissing. My dd is an extremely honest person so maybe that is another reason why she has such difficulty with small talk in large crowds. But it really got me thinking about proper etiquette and maybe I haven't taught my dd the manners or social skills she needs. Would you perceive a shy, quiet person as rude or would you accept them as they are??

Pages
One of my DSs has dated two very shy, quiet girls in his life (not at the same time!).
I was the shy girl when I dated my first love and his parents did not think much of me
It all came out in an argument and I felt so bad because I was CLUELESS!!!
Apparently it was considered rude and disrespectful that I did not address them first but rather waited until they said 'hi' to respond. I was not being disrespectful but 1)shy and 2)I am rather a daydreamer-I seriously may not have even noticed they were in the same room as the BF and myself!
They had 3 horses-one for each of the oldest 2 boys and one, I learned, belonged to the dad. I was rude because I did not personally thank the dad for allowing me to ride HIS horse
Even as a parent now, I still find their reactions over the top. DS2's GF is shy and rarely speaks-I dont judge her on that(I may judge her on other stuff ;))
Still....it is a reality and perhaps your DD and the DS I still have at home need to be coached a bit.
Perhaps we can save them some grief by encouraging them to follow certain steps. Maybe a middle of the road? I think complimenting is a bit much but yes, based on my episode, she should walk in and greet the mother FIRST.
I hate to think anyone is being perceived as rude when they aren't(and that includes me)
Because I was shy myself, I would not consider your DD to be rude. Her BF's mother seems pretty narrow-minded to think that everyone should behave as her family does. The fact that her bf asked her to email his mom is enough to make me say she should find someone new. Anyone with those kinds of demands/expectations is one whom she will never be able to please. She shouldn't waste her time on him. I would clam up even more than normal if I were faced with someone like his mom. The fact that she gets along with the dad's family just fine tells me she's not rude.
As windrush mentioned, though, we do need to teach our shy kids ways to make small talk so that they aren't perceived to be rude. Our DS18 needs a lot of that. Shyness is SO genetic--my dad, older sister and brother are all shy, too. Only my younger sister got my mom's excessive talking, bubbly personality genes. One of my favorite lines: Wouldn't life be boring if we were all cloned from the same source?
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/october/meet_the_new_health_.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQTBYQlQ7yM
I understand your situation. I would imagine that if your daughter has been dating her bf for 18 months, she should have something to talk about with his family, other than flattery, useless conversation, etc. And I wouldn't consider a family function a "large crowd". If she's serious about her bf, I would encourage her to make more of an effort to get to know his family and once that takes place, she may find that she has things in common with members of his family.
How does her bf handle himself when he visits your family? The bf's mother does seem to be making a lot of demands, and true, your daughter is only 17, but as I mentioned, if she's serious about the bf, she might want to make more of an effort. This will also help her to practice good communications skills when/if she applies for a job or college.
A few thoughts for your DD
Maybe she can make it a "game" or "contest" with herself to get her BF's mom to like her. Life is full of people who don't love you, and who you don't like too much either, but sometimes you have to figure out how to get along with them. My DD had a teacher a few years ago who she didn't like, and I dared her to smile at this teacher every time the teacher looked up....by mid-year, with no other change by my DD, the teacher stopped me to say what a nice student my DD was. Point is - everyone wants to be liked and sometimes a small change can make a difference.
Role play before going over - you pretend to be BF's mom and let her practice some things she might say. Then she won't be tongue-tied when she's there.
There's a difference between being polite (making small talk) and being fake. This is an art that will come in handy throughout life. Smiling, listening when people talk, etc are important things to do to get along with friends, family, co-workers, etc.
My DD has a friend who is very shy around "adults she doesn't know". For a while I thought it was me - A would never make eye contact with me, barely greeted me, and never looked up when I was in the room. I asked DD (who must have mentioned it to A), and now at least she greets me when she comes into my house and says "bye, thanks" when she leaves.
HTH
Sue
If it were my dd I would encourage her to make an effort to be nice to the mom and try to get to know her a little better.
I don't think an e-mail is obligatory, but it would be a nice thing to do. Why not send her a little note via e-mail or snail mail and say "Thank you for inviting me to the picnic and including me in family functions. I appreciate your thoughtfulness." She could mention that the food was lovely or what ever. I don't mean she needs to lie about anything, just be nice. What can it hurt to say something like that or "Sorry I missed thanking you when I left your home. Thanks for inviting me." A little bit of honey can go a long way.
I don't think small talk has to be fake flattery either. All she needs to do is show interest in what they are saying. Maybe ask a couple questions or make an observation. If a group of talking people is a problem, maybe she could walk over to someone who is alone and just say "Aren't you bf's aunt?" or what ever or "How exactly are you related to bf?" Just something that shows interest.
I think people tend to warm up when you show some interest in them. That might do the trick. You never know. As she does this she might find herself being more comfortable talking with others.
Kristie
Kind of a parallel case for me - when I was seriously dating a guy in grad school, I found out his parents (mom esp) didn't like me because I apparently didn't do things right. They expected people to shake hands when they met and hug when they parted. I have never been a physical sort, nor did I come from a background like that. For that matter, they are from Austria and spoke Austrian when I was there (which I found rude!), and even boyfriend wanted me to speak German to our future kids at home (exclusively; let them learn English on the street). Needless to say that only lasted about 2 years, but it was hard because except for those cultural differences, we really would've been pretty good together.
Sue
I don't think your DD is rude either but I can see how she could be perceived as that, esp. by people who are usually outgoing. I have a 17 yo DSD who is pretty reserved. Really the only time she comes out of her shell is if she, her dad & I are alone (and if she's in a good mood). I'm sure she's not like that w/ her friends. I noticed that one time we went out to dinner w/ our family (I have 2 kids also), my mother & my aunt. Now she has known my fam. for 7 yrs. and my mother & aunt are very friendly and treat her just like their own grandkids. I think that she didn't say one word during the whole dinner. That can be annoying cause I think that she could have made some effort to join the conversation.
As far as your DD goes, try to help her out to learn how to make small talk, cause it is a skill that will come in handy her whole life. She could at least say hi, how are you and smile when she goes in to BF's family's house. At least then they will know she is being friendly. She doesn't have to give people fake compliments, but if they are serving dinner, couldn't she find one thing to say that she likes? Also, if they are all talkative, they must like to talk about themselves, so all she has to do is ask them a question and they will probably do a lot of the talking after that. It just shows that she has some interest and it's better than sitting in the corner moping and not talking to anyone. I'm not unsympathetic. I really hate being in a crowd of people I don't know either and having to talk to them. But I bet if she makes some effort, then these people won't seem so strange to her.
Pages