so much to say... (long one)
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| Thu, 07-19-2007 - 8:29am |
I guess I'm not really looking for answers here, because I don't think there are any. I think this is all my problem with myself and my own inability to allow my DD17 to continue the process of becoming an adult.
If she were someone else's DD I would no doubt compliment the parents on a smart, beautiful young woman that they've raised. But this is my own DD. Some of you may remember my previous posts about her first long term bf of just over 2 months, and how she has told me that she loves him (that was only like 2-3 weeks in), and some problems (drinking mostly) that have occured since meeting this guy and also changing her circle of girls too.
Anyway, here's where I am now;
DD has gotten into a fist fight with one of the girls she started hanging out with about 3-4 months ago. She said that the girl was talking about her, spreading rumors or whatever and DD called her to ask her. Frd denied it and conversation turned into an argument quick and then the girl drove over to confront DD. DD (who was at bf's house) apparently dropped the girl pretty quickly (which is suprising since she was outweighed, and her little cheerleader body has never thrown a punch in her life.) Now I have a msg from another mutual frd (guess I should stop calling them frds?) that says when she returns home from vaca she is going to "kill, not a threat, but a promise" DD because she beat the other girl. As the story was told to me (and I know there's always 3 versions of every story) the girl was coming at DD so DD protected herself, since the other girl went down and everything ended now DD is looking like the bad guy here, but I'm not truely sure one way or the other.
2nd issue, DD was overheard by DS talking to bf about him breaking confidence and spilling info to someone that is "embarrasing and can ruin my reputation." That caused a 2 hour delay before she was willing to go out with bf as planned, but everything got back to normal real quick between them. Because I told DD that I expect her to be on BC before any physical relationship happens I asked her flat out about this. She said it was about her and me and that she needed to talk to someone about it and bf was the only one she trusted to keep his mouth shut (didn't work). I told her that I don't know how anything that is going on between her and I would affect her reputation, but ok fine.
3rd issue, DD needed wash done, she is supposed to do it herself (like the other older kids) but typically suckers me into it by bringing it to LR when she knows I am going to be doing wash for the little kids/wife or myself. I did her wash the other day and then yesterday when looking for a ringing phone in her room (the house phone) I picked up her pile of pillows and found a stack of thongs there. It doesn't bother me that she's wearing thongs as much as she's hidding them. Why hide them if you are really wearing them for yourself. She's been wearing low cut boy shorts for some time now, and imo they are just as provacative as thongs if not more so. I've never made any comment about them to her, so why start hiding things now?
4th issue, after spending 8k a year on private hs for 3 years she now wants to take a break next year and work at her $7 a hour job for a semester. I actually would rather have her do that than waste money on college and then fail or drop out, but I'm afraid she won't go back if she takes a break.
Here's my wrap up-- I've told DD numerous times that although I won't be happy if she's having sex that I'd much rather know and make sure that she has BC/protection than stick my head in the sand. Pretty much EVERYTHING points to her having sex, but she denies it and says she's not ready and won't be ready for some time. She also denied drinking when she smelled like a brewery too, so she isn't always 100% honest (who is?)
I'm concerned about the fighting situation, everyone is 17, no 18 year olds yet, they'll all turn 18 within 1 month of each other next spring. I really think the boys in the group may have provoked some of this confrontation and told DD that, but she insists that the girl just came at her on her own. I'm really worried about what may happen when the 3rd girl comes back (she was in a foster care situation at one point, so I'm not sure what her problems are--but it does worry me)
As far as college, I told DD that she still needs to come at this year as if she were going to college and make all her app's etc and then if she still doesn't want to go after she gets acceptances and grants/scholarships then I'll do my best to calm her mother down (she doesn't want any talk of not going to college)
I hate to admit this, because it isn't fair to the boys, but DD is absolutely very special to me, not sure if it's because she's the only girl or what, but she is. Even though we've had problems (mostly minors, especially when I read what some of you are dealing with) I'm usually very proud of how she conducts herself, and although we've had some trust issues I generally feel I can trust her too.
She is our oldest, I'm sure a lot of this is being caused by her breaking away (as she should) and me trying to hold on to her. I know she is smart, and I usually don't have to worry about her IF she is thinking before she acts. But we all know that teens don't always think before they act. Just as I constantly telling my older boys to not treat girls/women like objects/possesions/etc, I also don't want her to be someone's object, or crave the attention that low cut shirts or exposed thongs will bring her.
I have to laugh because everyone thinks I'm so in control of everything, meanwhile I'm a total mess when it comes to DD. The only people who know how nuts I am is DD and DW. DW by the way downplays everything except for the college situation. The DS's and any girls that might come around though are a whole different story...
I hate to post again about something that seems to be basically the same root issue in a lot of ways, but I just can't seem to get over this. I really feel like a little kid, worried about things I can't really control. I know that I just need to back off and let her be and hope that she'll get me if she needs me, but I worry that she won't.

It sounds as if you and your daughter communicate very well considering the fact that she's going through those rocky teen years. I doubt that will change in the future as you seem as though you have a solid foundation now and are willing to discuss a variety of issues.
Is your daughter suggesting a semester off to be close to the bf? I rather agree with your wife in that, even though I feel some teens need a break before college (and it's more acceptable in this day and age to attend college at any age), I would give it a lot of thought before I would allow her to take a semester off. Are any of her other friends attending college? You'll find the college experience to be a tremendous learning experience for her and might be valuable at this time in her life. Your problem might be letting her go. You might have to deal with your issues of separation first before you tackle other issues.
As for her dating relationships, that's something that most parents can monitor but really can't control. It sounds as if your daughter can come to you and talk about anything and that's a really good thing. She sounds like a very normal 17 year old (most 17 year old girls wear thongs...it's just how they dress in this day and age). I have two daughters 18 and 19 so I'm familiar with your situation.
My final thoughts regarding reading your post and reading others is that I think parents should be involved in their children's lives but to an extent. I sometimes think parents hover too much. Yes, keep them safe, healthy, and happy, but then let them be kids and learn from their own experiences. We're not to be their friend, confidant, or buddy, we're to be their parents who love them unconditionally who will give them the necessary skills to become happy, productive adults. We shouldn't decipher every move they make or say. After all, think back to when we were 17. I'm sure we did and said crazy things too.
If you don't allow your daughter to trust her own decision making skills, she'll never develop confidence and will always rely on others for answers. True, you may think that 17 may be too young to be making important decisions, but soon she'll be on her own and you'll want her to have confidence and be prepared for what life has to offer.
As in nature, a bird can't learn to fly if the mama bird doesn't let it go.
As far as college, I don't think the bf factors into the decision, I actually think she just doesn't want to deal wiht going to school at all right now. Most of her frds are definitely headed to college, her HS is a college prep school and 98-99% of the girls do go on to college. Her bf will be going to a tech school (that's what he's told her and she's relayed to me), but I don't believe that he is a real factor in the idea. She always says she doesn't know what she wants to do for a career and realizes she needs a college degree to be able to truely support herself. Some of the people in her new group of frds may not be going to college, but again, I think that only makes it ok to not go, it's not giving her a reason to not go.
As far as the rest, I agree 100% with what you've said. I just wish my head and heart would be able to work this out so that I can do what I do know is best for her. As I said at the start, if she were a frd's dd I would compliment them on a job well done. For some reason though (like an artist who puts the finishing touch on the painting and ruins it in the process) I just can't back off. I just need to keep trying to look at this from a 3rd party stand point and hope I can leave her be.
thx for the words!
Please let your daughter know that college may be a starting point in finding a career path or interest that she may not have given much thought to (my husband is a college professor). There's no shame heading to college with an "undecided or undeclared" major. Perhaps once she begins to take classes, she'll find what appeals to her.
I find your family dynamics interesting. If I may say....if my husband knew as much as you seem to know about your daughter, he would have keeled over with a heart attach years ago...:>) and we have two very bright, beautiful and vibrant daughters with all sorts of drama attached. I'm not suggesting that information should be kept from parents, spouses, etc. but sometimes situations arise that may be best handled by parents of the same sex. Wow, that sounds sexist, and I don't want to undermine the terrific relationship you have with your daughter but if you're willing to be extremely open and communicative with your daughter, then you're going to have to face the consequences of such an open relationship.
When handling my daughters' relationships, true everything my daughters discuss with me, I eventually discuss with my husband (unless it's strictly confidential) but to have my daughters discuss difficult topics directly with my husband would probably make my husband feel uncomfortable at first because he has all the emotions of most fathers, protectiveness, etc. Granted, he has a terrific relationship with his girls but he usually provides opportunities to shed light and wisdom on other areas of their lives.
Well, that's all for now. I think you'll doing great. I hope that your sons, when they're older, have an opportunity to meet women who are as open and communicative as your daughter.
Is there some option where your DD could stay home & take some classes at a local college just so she isn't completely out of school? I do understand how she might not be that motivated to apply if she doesn't know what she wants to do. My ex could have gone to college for free as a Veteran. He started off taking some classes and never finished cause he "didn't know what he wanted to do." Now 25 yrs. later, he's still working for the post office and I'm sure he wished he had gone. Sometimes I think the college app. process is just very daunting. My DD was a senior last year, top 10% of her class and even though she knew she wanted nursing and wanted to stay in New England, that's still a lot of schools to choose from. She was very stressed out during the process. Are there any colleges your DD might want to visit, just to see what is going on? Maybe if her friends start to get excited about school, she will want to go too. I don't know if I would let her completely just give up on school. I might go w/ the route of you can work but you have to take 2 college classes, just basic ones to see what it's like.
As far as thongs, don't worry. It's true that kids all like to wear them. I don't think my DD has any regular underwear. I haven't had the BF experience yet, but when I was younger, even though I waited until I was 21 to have sex, there is no way I would have told my parents. I was embarrassed when I told my mother that my now DH & I were moving in together before we got married and I was in my 40's. I think all you can do is give her advice about using BC and hope she can get it on her own. I seriously doubt that most kids ask their parents to get them BC. Does she have a regular dr's visit coming up? Because I know when I had to take my DD for her last exam before college, that would be an opportunity for her to talk privately w/ the dr if she needed to.
For some reason, I just think it's harder for fathers to see their DDs grow up. I was out w/ a bunch of friend, all 50 yr old mothers, who have kids in college and they were more like "I can't wait til my kids are out of the house."
DW is also a little more back than I when it comes to DD (DS's are another story though, strangly) so I felt like I really needed to make sure that my opinions were at least heard by all kids.