Summer lesson?
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Summer lesson?
| Thu, 06-14-2007 - 2:16pm |
My son's father is driving me crazy. My son (13) has been really testing the limits lately. For the most part he is a real great kid, but I think teenage hormones have kidnapped his brain and replaced it with a horrible creature. He can be so rude, and so self centered. All of which I have read to be normal (side note to all the adults who had to deal with me when I was a teenager....thank you for your patients!!)
I am a pretty relaxed mother but am very strict on respect in my house. And lets just say that my darling teenager has crossed far beyond the line several times. So I have in return ground him for his actions. He so plesantly (lol) informs me that I'm competely unfair and tells me that he is goiing to move into his father house.
He is not close to his father and is only trying to avoid being punished. His father (the wise man that he is) tells my son that he agrees that I'm being unfair. (thanks for the support) I tried to explain to him that the only thing that does is fills his head with false hope. His father returns with "I have a bad temper and he is my son" (there is an agrument for ya..........and he wonders why we are no longer together!!!) So his fathers advise to me is not to punish him when he is upset or hold his resposible for his actions when he is...........what a proud mother I will be when he is 40 and living in my basement because he can keep a job, or a relationship for that matter.
So I have been forced to call my sons bluff about moving in with his father. His father lives on a really bad side of the city and lets face it my son has been pampared for way to long in the suburbs to be able to deal with that. Plus my son is rather snobby and complains that his father's house smells.
I want to show my son, and his father the other side of the fence this summer. I would love for them to have the experience of 'living with dad' and 'being a real parent', but that would mean that my son would be trapped in the house all day until his father gets out of work.
So lets hear it, do you think I'm out of my mind for these thoughts? Should I just suck it up and deal with it, or should I let the two of them get a reality check?
I am a pretty relaxed mother but am very strict on respect in my house. And lets just say that my darling teenager has crossed far beyond the line several times. So I have in return ground him for his actions. He so plesantly (lol) informs me that I'm competely unfair and tells me that he is goiing to move into his father house.
He is not close to his father and is only trying to avoid being punished. His father (the wise man that he is) tells my son that he agrees that I'm being unfair. (thanks for the support) I tried to explain to him that the only thing that does is fills his head with false hope. His father returns with "I have a bad temper and he is my son" (there is an agrument for ya..........and he wonders why we are no longer together!!!) So his fathers advise to me is not to punish him when he is upset or hold his resposible for his actions when he is...........what a proud mother I will be when he is 40 and living in my basement because he can keep a job, or a relationship for that matter.
So I have been forced to call my sons bluff about moving in with his father. His father lives on a really bad side of the city and lets face it my son has been pampared for way to long in the suburbs to be able to deal with that. Plus my son is rather snobby and complains that his father's house smells.
I want to show my son, and his father the other side of the fence this summer. I would love for them to have the experience of 'living with dad' and 'being a real parent', but that would mean that my son would be trapped in the house all day until his father gets out of work.
So lets hear it, do you think I'm out of my mind for these thoughts? Should I just suck it up and deal with it, or should I let the two of them get a reality check?

As long as dad's neighborhood isn't gang and drug-infested, I'd say go for it!
see that is the thing, it is in a terrible nighborhood filled with gang violence and drugs. That is why my son would be required to stay in the house all day.
And his father is the one that buys my boys all the Xboxes and stuff. See he lives in an apartment above a friend of his for free, that way he can spend all his money on 'toys'.
I really don't want him to go, and if he did I pray he learns his lesson fast, but I feel like I'm at wits end with him most the time. He is a very smart child, but his grades are really slippy, he is down right mean to his brother and threatens to be worse if I'm informed of the situation. He says that he hates that his brother is a 'suck up' My 8yo is just a very sweet, very sesitive kid. My 13yo has even come right out and told me that he is jealous of my 8yo, because he doesn't seem to struggle as much and because he looks better. Both of my boys are good looking.
I'll tell ya, its tough raising boys without support from their fathers. I remember when my 13 yo was 6 and wanted to play baseball. I signed him up, took him to every practice and he said he wanted to quit. He thought that he couldn't throw the ball as well as the other boys and was embarrassed. I told him that practices make perfect and tried to get him to play catch with me. (I was a tomboy when I was younger.....and I know how to throw a ball) He refused and when I asked him why he said that he didn't want to learn how to catch from a girl. (ouch) I tried to get his father to teach him, but he just got mad at my son for droping it or missing it.
I just wish that I could get it through his fathers head what an important role he has, and that he needs to step up and fill it. Game systems, feeding the kids fast food, letting them stay up all night, not making my youngest brush his teeth..........he is like a cool big brother, not a father.......and then for him to turn around and critizes my parenting to my 13 yo......I want to scream at him "what is wromg with you???", although I highly doubt that would help the situation at all. He would proably turn around and say " I told you your mother was nuts".....lmao!!!!!
At the risk of offending some.... I once read that women are very good at turning babies into girls, and girls into women.
Not to offend but I was wondering a few things.
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Beyond arbitrary punishments what are you doing to help him learn to be respectful? Is he heald accountable for his actions? Does he need to make restituation to whomever he's hurt? Is he expected to take real steps towards repairing and rebuilding the relationship with that person? Are you activly teaching him how to do that and what that looks like? What steps are you yourself taking to facilitate the rebuilding of those relationships?
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Does he have the organizational, study and time management skills to manage things right now? Does he need tutoring to help him overcome some challenges? Is he feeling as though he messed up so why bother trying now... it's too late? Is there something going on in his life that is distracting him from his schoolwork? Has his peer influences changed such that they may be a poor influence on him? Is he involved in school outside of the academics? (studies show that students who are involved in extra curriculars at school do better in school. Academically, socially and emotionally. They have better grades, more friends and care more about the school community as a whole.)
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What steps have been taken to help your sons build a better relationship?
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He's saying a lot in these statements. Things that can be very difficult to deal with from a self esteem point of view. I do hope that his concerns are not being dismissed.
If he sees himself as less attractive that may well be. 13 can be a very ackward age physically and at a time when appearance starts to matter. Body changes, acne, weight changes, etc.. He may well be feeling very poorly about some aspects of his appearance. I know that my 13 year old son can't stand dealing with the acne, razor stubble drives him nuts, and his glasses .. well he does look better without them and he knows it.(only until now it never bothered him). I think he looks good, he doesn't and is very self concience about a lot of aspects reguarding his physical appearance. He can be very critial of himself.
As for seeing his brother as a suck up, they are in different stages of life and your older ds may well see his little brother in this way. Which in turn may be an annoyance and playing into his negative feelings towards his brother. 13 year old boys are starting to struggle for autonomy, especially from mom. They want their independance and yes, 13 can be a very selfish age. They want control over their lives, but are not yet ready to take on all the responsiblity that goes with independance. They hate that they still need mom to remind them of things. 8 year olds are still very compliant with most requests without question or attitude. They welcome the reminders. He may see his brother as trying to be extra good to spite him (even thought this is not what his little brother is doing, the perception of such is very real).
If it were my son I would sit down with him and talk WITH him about it. Empathize with him. Don't dismiss how he's feeling or his perceptions of things. I know that's hard when he is way off base, but to him all that he is seeing is very real.
IMO if you send him to his father's house, you would still have to work together in order to gain some control over the situation. Allowing him to gain some autonomy within the bounds of respect. I think just sending him over there in hopes that Dad will take care of things will backfire on you. He has two parents, reguardless of the living situation and IMO it's best when those parents work towards a common goal. In this case, raising their son to be the best person he can possibly be. You have to work together as a team on that. That IMO may prove to be your biggest challenge. Get dad involved? Oh yes, but do so with a good solid hand still in the situation.
JMO
stacy
I am not offended at all, I posted on this board because I'm looking for different perspectives.
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Beyond arbitrary punishments what are you doing to help him learn to be respectful?
-I would have to say the most important thing I do to teach him how to be respectful is to lead by example. I have also sat down and had numberous talks with him about why it is so important, treats others how you want to be treated, you get more with honey than vinegar, what are you trying to accomplish.
Is he heald accountable for his actions?
-yes that is why he is grounded. I use punishment basically as a last resort. I would much rather my kids learn without having to ground them. I'm a talker and an explainer.
Does he need to make restituation to whomever he's hurt?
-this one is difficult. I can tell him that he needs to appologize but I can't make him mean it. He claims that he doesn't believe that he did anything wrong.
Is he expected to take real steps towards repairing and rebuilding the relationship with that person? Are you activly teaching him how to do that and what that looks like? What steps are you yourself taking to facilitate the rebuilding of those relationships?
-Maybe I'm a little lost here. I have a good relationship with him (when he is not mad, or grounded) He does talk to me, we do joke around, he tells me about his friends and such. I'm grateful for that. I constantly try to build our relationship. I have tried to strengthen his realationship with his brother but I don't think I'm doing well and I'm kind of out of ideas. I have initiated 'family time' where we hang out together but it ends up that my 13yo is rude to my 8yo and neither has fun.
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Does he have the organizational, study and time management skills to manage things right now? Does he need tutoring to help him overcome some challenges? Is he feeling as though he messed up so why bother trying now... it's too late? Is there something going on in his life that is distracting him from his schoolwork?
-both of my boys have ADHD so organization is a constant struggle. And unfortunately it is also a weak point for me. I have had help from his elementary school teachers in teaching him how to organize his belonging and time, but it is a constant struggle. As far as extra help goes he has been staying after school with his teachers. His grades are not failing because he can't grasp the material, it is because he does not turn in his homeowrk assignments on time and refused to study. He says that he studies at school all day and refused to do so at home. I have resently establish 'study time' where he is required to sit at the table and study a half an hour a night (whether or not he thinks he needs it)So far it has been a struggle and this week his father has been picking him up after he gets out of work and does not enforce this rule. His father says that I am too hard on the boys and expect too much.
Has his peer influences changed such that they may be a poor influence on him?
-I don't believe so, but I am watching out for it.
Is he involved in school outside of the academics? (studies show that students who are involved in extra curriculars at school do better in school. Academically, socially and emotionally. They have better grades, more friends and care more about the school community as a whole.)
-He started playing football last year and loves it. He is also talking about joining track and maybe baseball. I have always tried to keep him active. This is another arguement that I have with their father. I hate them sitting around playing video games and watching TV all day. I have joined them up for karate, baseball, swimming lessons, boy scouts, soccer, gymnastics, basketball, ect. My oldest would want to sign up but then want to quit for various reasons. I struggle with the concept of whether I force him to go or let him quit. I have made some mistakes and let him quit before. I did good for awhile but it was a constant fight with him, and after sitting on the sidelines for 3 weeks in soccer I gave in. Their father tells me that I am wrong for forcing them to go if they don't like it (he also tells the kids this). I believe that they can stick it out for the duration of the sport and then they can make an educated desicion on whether or not they would want to join again. We all have bad days and kids should be taught not to make desicions based on them.
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What steps have been taken to help your sons build a better relationship?
-My boys are night and day to each other. My oldest is my logical one that analyses everything. By age 6 he outwitted me on the whole is Santa real thing. My 8yo on the other hand is my dreamer. (he still believes in Santa, but not the Easter Bunny!!!! lol)He loves talking and carries himself completely different. My oldest is always worried about what people think of him and my 8yo could care less. It has always been that way. In part my oldest is jealous of his brother and in part he worries about him. He is afraid that people will make fun of his brother for (fill in the blank....for liking something, not liking something, doing this or that) and tries to get his brother to worry about it too. I know my oldest has self esteem issues and I have done everything I could think of to help him. I joined him up into friendship club, I have put him in counsiling several time, I have repeatedly told him what a great person he is. He is a smart kid and he convinces the couselers that he does not need to be there, and I think "are you kidding me" I can see the pain in his eyes. I watch him struggle constantly, it breaks my heart. I should also meantion that he has an issue with excepting help from people. I do not understand this nor do I know how to change this.
IMO if you send him to his father's house, you would still have to work together in order to gain some control over the situation.
-I believe that that is one of the problems. Me and his father do not work together at all, in fact he works against me. I was very young when I met their father and was not mature enough to understand that having a kid would not solve my loneliness issues. I also did not pick his father on his parenting abilities. I was selfish and lacking good judgement. I made my bed and now I have to lie in it. I get that. But how do I make it better for my kids?
Their father has a totally different outlook on life then I do. He is angry about his past, I use it to learn from. He makes excuses for why he can't do something (keep a job, move to a decent neighborhood, control his temper), I am far from perfect but am constantly looking for ways to improve things. I couldn't find a job that paid enough, I went back to college, my sons school wanted him to walk to 10 blocks to school (across two main roads) when he was 5 (I was at work at the time and couldn't find a sitter that could transport) so I move to a better district. Don't get me wrong, I'm not sitting up on my high hourse looking down at their father. I just want him to see that I'm trying to make my boys' life better. I have rationalized and rationalize with their father to just try to see that I am doing what is best for them.
I guess out of desperatness I want both of them to do a little growing up togther (for lack of batter words) I want their father to get a first hand taste of what a teenager is like. He doesn't have to deal with his defience because he gives him everything he wants. I want to my son to see that his father would require things of him if he actually lived with him. He olny goes with his father about once evert two months for a couple hours, when he wants something, or when he is grounded and is trying to escape punsihment. Maybe (and I'm proabbly just dreaming) they could both see that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence, and my son could be a little more appreciative (if that is possible for a teenagers...lol) and his father could learn to support me and trust me.
In my opinion, letting your DS spend the summer w/ his dad would be a big mistake. You have already said that dad lives in a bad neighborhood w/ gangs and drugs, so there is a realy risk of your son being in danger, esp. if he is going to be home alone all day. Do you think he would never go out of the house, even if he had videos? Also is this an area where he has any friends? Also you said dad has a bad temper and is a bad role model since he doesn't discipline his son. Maybe that wouldn't change since if dad lets them eat junk food, play videos all day and do whatever they want, son would probably enjoy it, and it really wouldn't be doing him any good.
I know a lot of kids say they want to live w/ the other parent if things aren't going their way. Now I would say "go right ahead, do you think dad would let you do whatever?" knowing that my ex would be supportive of me and wouldn't let the kids disrespect me even though we're divorced. Basically, your ex is not mature and not a good father, so he's not going to change and not going to be helpful, so I wouldn't expect that. If you could get another male role model (Big Brothers?) that might be helpful. If you really don't believe that it would be good for your son to live w/ his dad and just are doing it for punishment or hope that he would appreciate you more (and that's what I'm inferring), then the next time he says "I'm going to live w/ dad" then I would just say "no, you're not, you're going to live w/ me and you're going to obey the rules in my house." Let's face it, kids whose parents aren't divorced probably say "I'm going to run away from home." but the parents don't take them up on that.
We kind of had a similar situation when my DSD went to live w/ her grandmother for the summer 2 yrs ago, so I think she was 15. She wasn't getting along w/ her dad at all and he wasn't handling it very well, so she called up grandma for sympathy. Grandma actually went to court to get guardianship and they came up w/ this plan. Of course, DSD never told GM that she was failing her courses, skipping school, etc. She wasn't allowed to take her cell phone (which she had charged up way over the minutes) or her computer w/ her and I think she was pretty bored. After she came home in Sept. she didn't visit her GM until Thanksgiving, even though GM made a big deal about visiting her at least once a month. The major difference there was that GM lives in a nice neighborhood and it's not like we would have to worry that DSD was in any danger or getting to do anything that she wanted either.
As far as the defiant behavior, I'm no expert on that. Since your DS didn't really seem receptive to counselling, could you have some sessions w/ a child therapist to get some ideas about how to deal w/ him effectively? It's hard when the other parent undermines you. But when your DS says "dad says I dont' have to do that" I think you just have to say "when you stay w/ dad, you follow his rules, but in my house, you have to follow my rules."
I guess there is one more major piece that I have left out. Two weeks ago my 13yo shovled me out of his way when he was trying to leave his room. He is much bigger than me and stronger as well. Prior to this he has been trying to intimdate me when he is mad. I guess I should have seen it coming but wanted to believe that I taught my son better than that. He claims that he wasn't trying to hurt me, but that is why he got grounded to begin with.
Monday he was trying to convince me that I should let him off groundment and when I said no he started to bash his head into his knee and just went baserk. I will admitt that I was scared. I calmed him down for the momment, but the whole time I was picturing him coming after me. I have two other boys in the house, my 8yo and my 4 month old. When it come right down to it I can not control him. I am not physically capable of it. At that point I didn't know what else to do so I called his father and told him that he needs to come pick him up for the night. I'm ashamed of it, it is not something that I have ever done before, but it is not just my safety that I have to worry about.
Later that night I called him up and talked to him, and he said that he was just trying to get me to let him off being grounded. I have already made an appointment with a therapist, but because his finals are next week the appoinment isn't for two weeks.
I don't want him to go live with his father. I have missed him like crazy this week. But I don't know what else to do. I will not allow him to be violent. I will not subject my other children to the violence, and I do not want to get the authorities involved at this point.
When I said that I want me son to be grateful, I didn't mean thankful as if he is going to come home everyday and thank me for being a wonderful mom.....(I think I would faint from the shock) I just want him to understand that he can not act like that in my house, and just because his father has different view on it doesn't mean that him and his father are right. I want my son to see that if he chooses to continue down this path of not controlling his temper and blaming everyone else for his mistakes that he is going to end up just like his father has.
I would rather have his father step up and fullfill his role. Tell his son that he will not stand for that, hold his son responible for his actions. Teach him how to be a man. This has been an ongoing battle for their whole lives. I have done a lot of reading on single parenting, and how important their father are in their childrens life. Experts agree that having a disfunctional father is better then having no father.
Their father has made great improvement lately. He has in the past just taken off with not so much as a call to see how the kids are doing for months at a time. He has miss countless Christmas's and B-day's. In the past three years he has been pretty much consistent. He doesn't verbally assult me anymore, if he says he is coming he comes, and my youngest one absolutely loves him. They call him when they are upset and he will talk to them for awhile and try to calm them down. I think in part he is trying to make up to them what he can't or didn't give them, but I don't think he grasp the overall picture. I don't think he is a 'bad' father, I think he has poor judgement and is neive about childhood development. I have talk to him about classes but he thinks "those people" don't know what they are talking about. I think maybe if he could get some real experience that maybe he could see why I do the things I do, and then back me up with me son.
<-yes that is why he is grounded. I use punishment basically as a last resort. I would much rather my kids learn without having to ground them. I'm a talker and an explainer.>>
JMO but arbitrary punishment (grounding etc..)is not holding someone accountable for their actions. What I ment by holding him accountable was making him own to the problem at hand and take steps to improve the situation.
I can punish him for not doing his chores. Ground him, no allowance etc...
Or I can hold him accountable for not doing his chores. Having him do all the chores he was supposed to do, having him owe time to the people whom he inconcienced by not doing the chores when he was supposed to. Having him figure out why he didn't get the chores done and making sure that he takes the neccessary steps to ensure that the behavior doesn't repeat itself.
<-this one is difficult. I can tell him that he needs to appologize but I can't make him mean it. He claims that he doesn't believe that he did anything wrong.>>
Making restitution to someone for hurting them isn't about empty appologies. It's about actually making up for the hurt that you've caused. In our home your older child would be expected to make a concious effort to be nice and respectful to his brother. To take his little brother's feelings into consideration and to speak/act with those feelings in mind. It would also be expected that he would come up with a way to help his younger brother feel valued.
<<-Maybe I'm a little lost here. I have a good relationship with him (when he is not mad, or grounded)>>
Anytime anyone disrespects you they have done some degree of damage to a relationship. The kind of repair/rebuilding work I was refering to was one that would bring your ds to a point where the last thing he would want to do is hurt you with words, attitude etc.. It's a gradual process but an important one all the same.
<< I have tried to strengthen his realationship with his brother but I don't think I'm doing well and I'm kind of out of ideas. I have initiated 'family time' where we hang out together but it ends up that my 13yo is rude to my 8yo and neither has fun.>>
My advice here would be to have the brothers own the problem and help them come up with ways to improve their relationship. Instead of forcing them into situations where they have to spend time together doing something you predetermine, allow them to choose how they spend their time together. Perhaps YDS would like ODS to teach him to throw a good spiral. Perhaps ODS has a major project he'd like to do (build a go cart, dog house etc.. ) that he could use an extra pair of hands for.
stacy