Taking a Stand - or Not

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2005
Taking a Stand - or Not
45
Mon, 10-02-2006 - 12:07am

Over the summer I had the subject of particpation in the pledge of allegiance was on my mind, and I had told my kids that I may not want them to say the pledge once school starts.

I explained what a pledge was and what the word allegiance meant and we talked about that a bit and I told them I would let them know before school started.

The week before school started one of my sons had his first football game. Before the game began, the announcer asked us all to rise for the pledge of allegiance. It has been my practice for years now to not be present when the national anthem is played or the pledge is recited at events, however this time I chose to just keep my seat.

I was sitting in the third row, and I didn't look back or around to see if anyone was taking notice of my non-participation, but I got a touch of the butterflies in my stomach thinking that other parents were likely taking notice and making a mental note not to let their kids come over to my house to play in the future.

On the way home after the game I told my kids about how it had made me feel to keep my seat, and I didn't feel it was right for me to put that kind of pressure on them, so I wouldn't require them to keep their seats at school during the pledge. They really didn't have much of a response.

At the end of the first week of school one of my sons told me "hey dad, I forgot to tell you. - I haven't been saying the pledge at school. I've been sitting down." I was shocked, and proud. I asked if any of his classmates had given him any grief. He said no one had, and in fact two of his friends had followed his lead and sat down after they saw him not standing.

The following week he told me there was one girl that was giving him some grief and had told him she was going to tell the teacher, but that didn't concern him. He knew his rights, he knew the reasons he had for not participating, and he was very confident of himself. He wasn't giving in. Then last week he came home from school and told me I needed to make a phone call to the school because his teacher had made him stand for the pledge. He stood there as I made the call to the principal. It was a short conversation. He heard me speak pleasantly to the principal as I simply said his teacher had made him stand for the pledge, I said thanks and hung up the phone. He wanted to know what the principals response had been, and I told him she had said that saying the pledge was optional and she would inform his teacher of that. He seemed pleased. The following day his teacher explained that she wasn't aware that saying the pledge was optional, and apologized to him.

This has all been a great learning experience for my kids and for myself. I know I'll never duck out when they play the national anthem again, or worry if people are looking at me when I don't stand for the pledge. It seems kind of odd, but my son has set the example for me, and I couldn't be more proud

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-21-2006
Tue, 10-03-2006 - 5:00pm
I have no problem with children being influenced by their parents as long as they are encouraged to understand both sides of the issue. It is of course from our parents that we recieve our core values. And we both know that as we age and learn we may change our views several times during our young adulthood. My concern was not that your child took a stand but that he took your stand and not his own. I am a Christian and my children's father an agnostic. We had many family discussions and debates. Our two children are now decent grown up people. One a church going believer and the other more of a universal soul. They all find their way to whatever belief is comfortable to them.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2005
Tue, 10-03-2006 - 6:13pm

deb, well said.

i do encourage our kids (and all people) to understand other points of view on issues.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-05-2003
Thu, 10-05-2006 - 10:31am

My 13yo dd doesn't say the pledge either. It's her choice and I support her decision and her reasons behind it. She told me she refuses to pledge allegance to any flag, country or government-- any, not just the US. That being said, my dh and I are both ex-military and have sworn more than just 'allegance'. My dd knows this and respects it; but can not, in good conscience do the same. She has told me she sometimes gets harrassed by other kids because of it; but won't lie and say something she doesn't believe in, even if it would make her life easier.

Whatever reason yours has I'm glad you support him.

Leslie

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-1998
Thu, 10-05-2006 - 11:33am

BRAVO!!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-29-2005
Thu, 10-05-2006 - 2:05pm

How old are your kids?


Everyone has

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2005
Thu, 10-05-2006 - 4:45pm

betty--->Everyone has the right to not say the pledge of allegiance, that's what makes this country so great! It is disrespectful, however, to not rise when it's being said in public. That's common knowledge. Sure you made your point but taught your kid the wrong lesson. Betty

what good is a right if you don't know that you have it? NO ONE responded to my question asking if they would be opposed to the schools informing all students of their RIGHT not to participate in the pledge or national anthem.

yes it can be disrepspectful, and there are times to be disrespectful. the definition of disrespectful is: lack of respect. the definition of respect is: a : high or special regard : ESTEEM b : the quality or state of being esteemed.

i do not think the flag or the nation should be held in a high or special regard, especially in light of the current actions by the u.s.. it's not just the u.s., i would never pledge allegiance to any nation.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-29-2005
Fri, 10-06-2006 - 12:16pm
.....and that's your right. Yes everyone knows they have THE RIGHT to not say the pledge. If your school was unaware, then you have served as a reminder, nothing MORE than that. You are no

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2005
Fri, 10-06-2006 - 6:22pm

--->....and that's your right. Yes everyone knows they have THE RIGHT to not say the pledge. If your school was unaware, then you have served as a reminder, nothing MORE than that. You are no Thomas Paine or Henry Thoreau so you can climb down off that pedestal sir. You taught your kid to be disprepectful, which is also your right, but what is gained in a lesson like that? There is no shortage of disrespect. Betty

Apparently not everyone DOES know they have the right not to participate in the pledge. My son's teacher didn't know. Which is why I asked if anyone would object to that right being made known to the students as their other rights and responsibilites are made known in the student handbook. and still no one has answered that question.

you use the word disrespectful like it's a bad thing. i think having children take a loyalty oath is a really bad thing. i have no respect for the practice.

i think adults taking the oath is bad, but you could argue that as adults they can decide on their own take the oath or not.....unless you feel they have been brainwashed since they were children...and such is the case with the pledge.

one of my "go along to get along" co-workers told me he is ok with them saying the plege because it really doesn't mean anythying....and if they didn't get everyone doing it when they were kids, then who would do it as an adult. my point exactly.

if there were a little less flag waving going on in this country i don't think we would be in the situation we find ourselves in today.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-19-2003
Sat, 10-07-2006 - 9:03am

I am not American -- I am Canadian where the most we do is sing Oh Canada...we don't pledge allegiance to our flag etc etc. But we do enjoy a free and open society that participates in alot of military conflicts but obviously we don't have the size, population-wise, to be an important military power in the world.

Anyway, what I feel as I read this entire thread is that although I may not fully agree with "anonojohn's" politics, I do not think it is "un-American" to take a stand for what one believes in. Many of the worlds most important political and cultural shifts started with individuals standing against the prevailing thinking. Everyone from Rosa Parks to the very people who fuelled and started the American Revolution -- you name it -- were all people who held hugely unpopular beliefs but spoke up and acted out and found other likeminded individuals who then admitted they too felt the same way.

I'm not saying anonajohn is an American hero or anything like that, all I am saying is that what makes America a great country in my view, as an outsider, is the freedom she has to speak her mind.

Anonajohn -- don't ever forget that. Don't ever forget that regardless of what you might see on the surface in places like Europe or even here in the white north, you live in probably the greatest country of the world. Alot of people fought to make it that way so that you can speak out and sit down during the Pledge of Allegiance without getting jailed or shot or whatever. So, consider that when choosing your words and methods...respect that alot of people died to give you freedoms. It doesn't mean you or your family have to sacrifice YOUR lives but...consider all those people that did.

"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA

"In America the majority raises formidable barriers around the liberty of opinion; within these barriers an author may write what he pleases, but woe to him if he goes beyond them."
Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1889) French social philosopher

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
Sat, 10-07-2006 - 10:44am

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I tried to make this point to john several posts ago, but he very pointedly ignored me!