Taking a Stand - or Not

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2005
Taking a Stand - or Not
45
Mon, 10-02-2006 - 12:07am

Over the summer I had the subject of particpation in the pledge of allegiance was on my mind, and I had told my kids that I may not want them to say the pledge once school starts.

I explained what a pledge was and what the word allegiance meant and we talked about that a bit and I told them I would let them know before school started.

The week before school started one of my sons had his first football game. Before the game began, the announcer asked us all to rise for the pledge of allegiance. It has been my practice for years now to not be present when the national anthem is played or the pledge is recited at events, however this time I chose to just keep my seat.

I was sitting in the third row, and I didn't look back or around to see if anyone was taking notice of my non-participation, but I got a touch of the butterflies in my stomach thinking that other parents were likely taking notice and making a mental note not to let their kids come over to my house to play in the future.

On the way home after the game I told my kids about how it had made me feel to keep my seat, and I didn't feel it was right for me to put that kind of pressure on them, so I wouldn't require them to keep their seats at school during the pledge. They really didn't have much of a response.

At the end of the first week of school one of my sons told me "hey dad, I forgot to tell you. - I haven't been saying the pledge at school. I've been sitting down." I was shocked, and proud. I asked if any of his classmates had given him any grief. He said no one had, and in fact two of his friends had followed his lead and sat down after they saw him not standing.

The following week he told me there was one girl that was giving him some grief and had told him she was going to tell the teacher, but that didn't concern him. He knew his rights, he knew the reasons he had for not participating, and he was very confident of himself. He wasn't giving in. Then last week he came home from school and told me I needed to make a phone call to the school because his teacher had made him stand for the pledge. He stood there as I made the call to the principal. It was a short conversation. He heard me speak pleasantly to the principal as I simply said his teacher had made him stand for the pledge, I said thanks and hung up the phone. He wanted to know what the principals response had been, and I told him she had said that saying the pledge was optional and she would inform his teacher of that. He seemed pleased. The following day his teacher explained that she wasn't aware that saying the pledge was optional, and apologized to him.

This has all been a great learning experience for my kids and for myself. I know I'll never duck out when they play the national anthem again, or worry if people are looking at me when I don't stand for the pledge. It seems kind of odd, but my son has set the example for me, and I couldn't be more proud

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-29-2005
Sat, 10-07-2006 - 12:50pm

I am

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2005
Wed, 10-11-2006 - 6:51am

did i say something to make you think i am a liberal? that's funny....i'm not...so you can understand why i couldn't care less if i make the you liberals look bad.

my "so called cause" is freedom. you think this is a free country???? and you call yourself educated??? give me a break. tell me miss educated....do you know what habeus corpus used to be???? watch this http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Olbermann-HabeusCorpus.mov and tell me how free this country is.

you think a government that would pass legislation eliminating habeus corpus derserves respect? i don't...and by the way that is all disrespect means...is a lack of respect...sow what would you have me do when the pledge is said or the national anthem is played if i have no respect for that which is being honored? should i go against my belief in order not to offend others with my lack of respect?

would you not defend (as you say your regularly do) my choice not to participate?

and i'll ask you one last time do you not think that every student should be made aware of his/her right to NOT say the pledge or stand for the national anthem?

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2005
Wed, 10-11-2006 - 6:58am

blue i didn't ignore you when you made the same old lame "a lot of people have died so you could have the right to freedom of speech...blah blah blah"

in fact i responded ask you (and anyone else who believes that nonsense) when my freedom of speech has EVER been threatened by any government other than MY OWN.

did they fight for my freedoms in WWI or WWII or Korea, or Vietnam, or Bosnia, or Iraq, or Afghanistan?? absolutely not.

and btw diamondslb the whold"greatest country" thing....that's your opinion and you are welcome to it...but you know what they say about opinions.

FACT is Bush pushed for the repeal of habeus corpus and there is nothing great in my opinon about a country that would allow that to happen.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Olbermann-HabeusCorpus.mov

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2004
Wed, 10-11-2006 - 10:01am

<<>>

Is that a promise?

"Crooks and Liars dot com"...rofl

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-29-2005
Wed, 10-11-2006 - 11:21am

stupid me I thought we were talking about taking the pledge of allegiance. Now we are discussing the lighter side of habeus corpus? You asked if I think people should know their rights and I said YES. Were

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-07-2005
Wed, 10-11-2006 - 2:14pm

You don't think your freedoms were fought for in WWII? Didja forget Pearl Harbor? Just curious what you thought would have happened if we hadn't gone to war? Would they have just gone away and not attacked us anymore?

Your logic is a mystery to me.

zz

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-1999
Wed, 10-11-2006 - 9:39pm

Well zz, we're not having this conversation in German, Russian, or Japaneese, so my guess is something positive has been accomplished.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2005
Thu, 10-12-2006 - 3:44am

the attack on peral habor was no more an attack on my freedoms than the attack of 9/11 was. in both instances it wasn't about someone trying to come threaten our freedoms, it was about retaliation for an interventionist u.s. foreign policy.

are you sure it's just MY logic that's a mystery to you?

our founders understood that the quickest way to get a bloody nose is to stick it in someone else's business. they warned us against adopting an interventionist foreign policy...and for the first 100 years we abstained from sticking our nose where it didn't belong for the most part. if we had stayed the course there would have been no attack on peral harbor, or on 9/11.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2005
Thu, 10-12-2006 - 4:01am

bunnirose--->"We can berate, debate and condemn our government without fear of retalliation from that government unless a crime is committed."

tell that to the fella who was just indicted for treason. i don't feel for a second that i am free to speak out against the government the way i would like to.

so your really think if the allied forces would have lost to germany that u.s would have been ruled by germany? you do understand they never invaded us don't you? nor did the japanese. and yet you think they have protected our collective freedoms...again...from who?

have you really thought about this point of view you hold? a nation as large as ours, and with well armed citizens....how could it EVER be ruled by another nation? who would stand for it??? quite frankly i am amazed we are tolerating our own government...we certainly wouldn't tolerate a foreign government.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2005
Thu, 10-12-2006 - 4:03am

did you watch the video daddioe?

what's the rofl crooks and liars thing? inside joke?