Tobylady- Youth group?
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| Mon, 02-27-2006 - 2:44pm |
A couple of weeks ago, dh and I joined a Bible study group through our church. I deliberately picked a group where I knew at least one couple had teenagers. It turns out that all but one couple have teens close or about the age of mine! One lady even has a 14 y.o. dd who has had a much worse time than my dd, involving both cutting AND bulimia. She is currently "forcing" her to attend the church youth group. In talking with the only older couple in our group, they noted that their two boys who chose to be involved in church activities turned out great, while the two that did not have had problems and continue to, including addiction. They did not force them to attend youth group, and in retrospect, wonder whether they should have. Who knows, it may have happened that way for these kids anyway. As we know, Christianity can be messy. Our sermon Sunday really hit home with us - it was centered on Job and how we all suffer trials in life.
But I'm starting to wonder if I should force my teens to attend youth group. I have tried "talking them into it" for months to no avail. What do you think? While I don't want them to see church as a "punishment" I don't think I'll get them there any other way....youth group is Monday nights and they have no conflicts.

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Deb
First of all let me applaud you and your DH for attending this Bible study - nothing like a good hard look at Job to gain some much needed confidence in one's faith. Also the choice of the group sounds like a good fit for you. Being with other parents that have had similar experiences is a great support tool as well.
In answer to your question, I would not force my children to attend every single event. However, I would insist that they attend at least once a week in addition to Sunday morning worship. And some weeks depending on how busy their schedule is, I might make an exception and let them miss either Sunday morning worship or the other event. Our church offers Sunday night youth group, Wed night Bible Study for youth, Thursday night praise service (for entire congregation), and right now we are doing Financial Peace University. This week we are also having a separate girls night out and guys night in. I am taking the girls to my mom's house at the river for a slumber party where the discussion will center on boys and dating. We will watch movies, eat pizza and ice cream, DD has offered to do manicures, another girl is going to 'tell fortunes', a college student will give a short devotion. The guys are going to have a lock-in in the gym complete with a poker tournament, capture the flag, video games, basketball, junk food and another college student to lead their devotion. Last Sat, we also had a church-wide cleaning. The week before that a youth sponsored Valentine's dinner (major fundraiser for mission trip and other activities). I would let DD choose from any one of those activities. I would let her choice be any church related activity not just youth group. She might actually prefer to attend aerobics with the young mom's occassionally but I would make all church activities open to her and not limit it to youth group. She'll probably eventually find her way there on her own once she realizes that she has to attend something on a regular basis.
If DD argues with you and one of mine did one time, I explained to her that she was a precious gift given to me by God and that all He asked in return was that I took care of her and trained her in His ways. How can she argue with God? I probably wouldn't quote scripture to my child but amazingly enough this was the scripture that my personal devotion was based on last night so to give you a little additional support from God on this one here it is:
Train a child in the way he should go,
and when he is old he will not turn from it. Proverbs 22:6
Also once she sees you and DH becoming more active, she'll be less likely to resist. Another thing I would do would be to talk to the youth director and explain to him that you want your kids to become involved and that you would appreciate it if he would simply make an extra effort just to say hi to them when they are in the building. Once the other kids see him making an extra effort to speak to your kids, they will as well. It is amazing how this little step can make a huge difference.
Good Luck.
tobylady, you are amazing! What a great post and message -- I think I'd like to go to your church.
When we moved here 7+ years ago, we joined a small local church right away. I never felt comfortable or welcome there, but tried to make it work. We got involved, volunteered, served on committees, did anything asked. It never quite worked for me.
A couple years ago, DH and I both had serious concerns about the direction the church was headed and felt we couldn't consciously support it, so we resigned from our positions and took a break.
Anyway, to make a long story short, DD asked if we could return to that church for the holidays this past Christmas. We did and were even asked to usher for Christmas Eve services, something I started way back when.
I have to say the church is REALLY struggling now; in fact, DH says it's 'dying' and while they felt awkward at first, both kids went to Sunday School, were invited to go to Wednesday night youth group, went and are now quite involved. It is quite tiny -- three high school students and 1/2 dozen middle schoolers but they both seem to really enjoy it.
This past Sunday was the Youth Service and both were participants -- it was awesome! The program was a 'newcast' and DD was co-anchor with another hs boy and DS was the 'cameraman'. I was amazed at how confident and self-assured they both seemed in their roles. There is another church I much prefer, and I think DH does too, but both kids asked if they could still go to youth group at this one if we attend services somewhere else.
Oh gosh, I'm totally rambling now -- sorry! Just wanted to say thanks for your words this morning and how much I appreciate having you on this board and got completely carried away. Thanks again and I hope you have an awesome day.
Julie
Oh ... totally off topic here ... a few weeks ago was the finall basketball game at DD's high school. Before the game started, all the seniors were honored center court and their college choices announced. One of the school's major athletes (football and basketball) is headed to TN for university. Didn't announce which one, but it made me think of you!
Thank you so much for the words of encouragement and support. It was very interesting that I was asked that particular question at this point in time because my personal devotion the past few nights has been on how do we pass along our beliefs to our kids and one of the key points the author has made is that God has instructed us over and over throughout history to pass along our beliefs to our kids. The author gives several specific examples. It comes from the book:
What Mary And Joseph Knew About Parenting: Surprising Insights From The Best (And Worst) Parents In The Bible by Rick Osborne
Each lesson is about families throughout the Bible and the lessons that we can learn from them and how to apply them to our daily lives. I never really had thought about turning to the Bible for help with parenting (it seems so obvious now) but this has been a good book. I plan to read other books by him. He is really good at showing us how to find answers to every day situations in the Bible.
Our church is very small but we are an active congregation. We have alot of older members and are very fortunate that they are open-minded and supportive of the youth. This past Sunday was also youth Sunday for us. The most prudish-looking old women laughed at their skit (which included rap, hip hop dance and ballet). They even attempted to sing the contemporary songs along with us. It was wonderful. A couple of them suggested that we make youth Sunday a quarterly event just to keep everyone's mind open to new and different things that God has to offer.
The praise service just started a few weeks ago and was actually a request from a local college. They wanted to find somewhere close to have such a service for their students. We had been wanting to start one. The college music department provides the band. The college technology department creates the powerpoint presentations. A church member that owns an office supply store loans us a projector. Older ladies provide snacks. We sing a few songs. So far the messages have been given by our youth director and our college interns. We expect to have a few members from the college staff give the message in the upcoming weeks. So far we've had about 25 - 30 in attendance which is great for us.
I think it is great that your kids have found a place that they are comfortable with. For a while, I really wanted to attend a different church but didn't b/c DD was comfortable there. I am very glad that we didn't change churches. It has taken alot of work to make the necessary changes at our church but it has been worth it and as always he majority of the work has been done by only a few people. My parents are now attending church for the first time in my life. It felt very odd to share a hymnal with my dad for the first time when I was at the age of 42.
Again, thanks so much for your words of encouragement. I sometimes take for granted the wonderful opportunities that are available to me at our church. Thank you so much for reminding me.
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What I wonderful idea! I know it's a lot of work for everyone (DH ended up putting in many hours getting the technical and visual portion of the service together) but I think I might suggest it to our youth leaders.
There were more people in church this past Sunday than I think I've ever seen -- with the exception of Easter Sunday -- and everyone seemed to really enjoy the change from the normal Sunday service.
Julie
Honestly, the only thing I don't like about our church is the worship servce. Our pastor is very monotone and her sermons are like English and History lessons. I usually don't remember what they were about 30 minutes after I left. Sometimes I truly feel like it's a waste of time going on Sunday morning but then I remember that someone told me that if you have an open mind even the worst sermon on earth has something to offer. Sometimes I leave wondering what did I miss b/c I didn't find it. The music is usually slow and boring. Our choir director believes that opera is the only form of music she can sing and our organist believes that the only instrument she can play is the organ and that it must be played very slowly. They are very resistant to change and since they both grew up in that church everyone is hesitant to push them to change. We are hoping that an occassional youth Sunday and the Thursday night praise service will offer our members something a little different. Please don't misunderstand there is something extremely comforting about the traditional worship and it definitely has its place but we all need something a little unique occassionally.
Our pastor is, however, a wonderful pastor. She has done an amazing job in pushing for a variety of activities and groups. She has been a great friend to me in some of the struggles that I've faced with DD. She was a great support to my mom when my aunt was ill. She has taught us as a congregation how to care for one another. This will probably be her last year with us and we will miss her tremendously when she leaves. She will probably retire when her time with us up and we are all hoping that she will stay as a member but it is doubtful as her children live elsewhere and she wants to be closer to the grandkids.
Special events can definitely increase attendance but it can also increase awareness among the regular attendees. As I said alot of Sundays I can't remember what the sermon was about 30 minutes later but if something is different you are more apt to pay attention and give it the thought it deserves. That extra work makes a huge difference to so many people. The youth also get so much more out of those services.
I've really enjoyed this conversation - thanks!!
Thanks so much!
Actually our Bible study is "God is Closer Than You Think". Our sermon last Sunday was centered on Job and on "When God Dissapoints". It was just one of those Sundays when you feel you're there because God put you there, KWIM? I even think it must have helped dd, if she was listening and she couldn't help but listen. They had even gone to the local Wal-Mart and videotaped people asking them, "Have you ever felt let down by God?" It was a real eye opener. We had the lecture on Job. Then, at the end, the pastor reminded us that there are Jobs all around us, and they had found one at Wal-Mart. He played the last videotape splice, and it was of a young man whose daughter had been born at home feet first and now had brain damage. He was going through a difficult time and wondering "why my daughter, God?" They showed the little baby girl, being held by the mother. I doubt there was a dry eye in the congregation.
Anyway, one day dd asked me why she had to go to church if she didn't want to. I think this is because H.'s parents, also Christians, do not make her go at all and they don't even attend themselves. I told her something along the lines of that it is my job as a parent to instruct her in these ways. So I do make them go most Sundays. However, I have never pushed the youth group thing, only suggested, encouraged, etc. But I think it's high time I put my foot down. Maybe I can negotiate something with them like if they attend for a month and find after that they don't want to go back, then I will allow it. Or should I even leave this as an option? My feeling is that once they're 18, I can't really force them, so I might as well do what I can now.
I like your idea of asking the director to pay her special attention. My dd had a bad experience last summer, at the height of all our drama, with the jr. high youth group, which is very small. It was with one of the parents of the kids who was picking up her kid. This parent is a very "holier than thou" parent whose daughter dresses like she's Omish (sp?) and she has really shown my dd that not every Christian is someone to look up to, which is a tough lesson to learn at 14. DD is actually only an 8th grader, although 14, so she would be in jr. high group, not sr. high. I want to ask whether or not they would allow her to go with her brother to the sr. high group. That way they at least know each other. Sometimes the problem is not knowing anyone.
I have a feeling this will not go over very well, so wish me luck and keep us in your prayers!
I believe that I remember the problem with the other parent last summer. It is a shame that there are people in this world that can't see the forest for the trees - you would think this parent would simply be happy that these kids are there.
We do not keep our middle high and senior high students separate all the time. They have separate Sunday School classes. On Sunday night, they start out together and have an activity and a lesson introduction and then they are separated for a short discussion time. Then they come back together for a short closing discussion on the lesson, prayer concerns and announcements and the closing prayer. This works pretty good for us. This way usually the siblings are separated by age at least for a little while. The older more mature kids can a more adult conversation but then younger ones get to benefit from some time with the older ones. The older ones also benefit from the questions that the younger ones ask. The older ones are usually thinking the same thing but think it would appear dumb of them to ask. The younger ones bring out the kid in the older ones and vice versa. It's a pretty good system for us and our group is so small that we couldn't really keep them apart all the time. They rarely have fun activities separate. The girls/guys night is a first for us and it should be interesting to see how that turns out.
Another program that is often good at bringing in new kids is to assign a big brother/sister to them. Someone already in the group to befriend the newbie. Most of our kids have been together since birth and it is difficult for new ones to break into the group. I started assigning a youth that may be only one or two years older to the newbie. Their job was to simply pray for the newbie and make sure that they are included in activities. Maybe you could try to get your youth director to work up something like that.
I don't think I would give them the out of not going after a month. I would just tell them that they are expected to attend a church related activity once a week in addition to worship - period. I wouldn't even insist that it be a youth function. If they go into with the attitude that I can quit, they won't give it serious effort. If they know that this is a long-term thing, they will eventually decide that participating is more fun than being a bump on a log. I might reward them with ice cream afterwards if they went without complaining. (Okay, now I'm sure everyone here knows that I like ice cream - we celebrate everything with ice cream at our house.)
Good Luck and keep trying. I think you are moving in the right direction and will see the benefits in time.
Well, thank YOU! I think I'm the one who benefitted most from this exchange. Apologies to mom_dragonfly for hijacking her post.
I had to giggle at your description of your services because they sound so much like ours! With the exception of the music. No opera singing :) but I'm starting to think that whoever choses the hymns for the day takes some sort of perverse pleasure in finding the most obscure, difficult to sing hymns he can find! Usually the only people who can sing along are the choir members -- all 9 of 'em.
The current pastor is a retired Navy Chaplain and this is his 'retirement job' and it seems he is just passing time until he retires again for the 2nd time in July. I don't know if the process for recruiting a new pastor has actually begun already but it will be interesting to observe what happens in July.
I'm impressed with your 30 minutes of sermon retention. That's much better than where I'm at right now. I'm embarrassed to admit that a few Sundays ago, for whatever reason, I was trying to remember the real name of the Navy Hymn, couldn't, and spent nearly the entire service flipping through the hymnal page by page trying to find it. Never did.
I really do hope for the best for the church. The sanctuary itself is an historic building in town and really quite beautiful and charming inside. There is also a large deck built around several lovely old oak trees between the sanctuary and fellowship hall that is very picturesque. I would love to see one of my children married there.
In spite of my ambivalent feelings toward the church, the good that has come out of it is that DD's involvement in the youth group just since early December has earned her quite a few service hours she otherwise wouldn't have been able to claim.
Thanks again to you ...
That's okay, anytime! I actually have found a new appreciation for my own church in listening to you and tobylady. Our church has a wonderful, energetic, young worship team: guittars, drums, synthesizer, and singers who get us up on our feet singing praises on Sunday. The music is contemporary christian, such as you'd hear on the radio stations. Songs like "Shout to the Lord" and "The Heart of Worship". The leader, a guittar player, reminds us of my favorite brother and my kid's favorite uncle, who has moved to Utah and we don't see but once a year now. Last summer, after the ordeal with the parent, I considered moving to another church and my kids didn't want to - and it was all because of the music and the "connection" they have to the worship team leader. Once in a while we do a hymn such as "How Great Thou Art" to please the old folk in the congregation, but our congregation is pretty young overall and so we stick with the contemporary stuff which I personally love.
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