Tough question from my DD

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-18-2005
Tough question from my DD
14
Mon, 06-26-2006 - 9:53pm

I could use some help in how to answer the question my DD(almost 15) asked me tonight.

"Why is Dad more affectionate with S (DS7) than he is with me?"

gosh that got me right in the heart

My DH is not the most affectionate person in the world. I've sort of come to terms with that in my marriage - I know he's devoted to me and he's a good dad and husband - but he's not one to say too much.

And part of me has been dreading this conversation with DD for a while. I mean, she tries so hard for a positive word or gesture from him, it's got to be frustrating when it's so hard to get. Again, he loves her very much and is very proud of her. But he doesn't hug her, except (she told me tonight) in the morning when they go their separate ways on the subway. He says "love you" to her, but usually after she says it first. When she does something great, he's more likely to tell me how proud he is of her than to tell her.

I've chalked this up to how he was raised. My MIL is a mean crazy person who never sees good in anyone, and pairs every compliment with a detraction. Her father, with whom they lived for many years, was worse....he never took time for the compliment. MIL's mother was very nice, but not a strong personality. He does not like to be vulnerable. He was more giving when we were dating, and first got married, but not so much now. He's also struggled off and on with depression, although the last major episode was when DD was very little.

But, back to her question. For some reason, he has a different relationship with DS. DH and DS have a great bond. Maybe it's a boy thing - he can relate to him more. Maybe it's because DS expects less, or what he expects is more concrete (a squeeze and a kiss on the top of the head; someone to kick a soccer ball with) and what DD needs/wants is more abstract. Maybe it's hard for dads with almost grown daughters?

I said all of this to DD, and somehow it seems unsatisfying. What else can I say or do?

Should I say something to DH? I don't want to make him feel guilty, but I feel like I'd like him to know how he impacts DD.

DD has figured out that the way to get Dad's attention is to do the things he likes or respects. When she was little, I would get interested in what *she* did, she never had to work for my attention or affection. DH had a harder time, and could mostly relate when it was about what he's interested in. As she's gotten older, she's developed some interest that are similar to his - music being one. Tonight they are at a jazz concert that she bought tickets to for a father's day present for him. In one way this is a good thing - a very good thing - that they share. But OTOH, is this how hard she has to work to get positive interaction with him?

UGH, this got long. Any advice is welcome. Any BTDTs? I have a warm, huggy dad, in some ways the opposite experience so it's hard to know how to advise her. And how do I avoid feeling guilty for putting her in this place - I love my DH, but I've seen this side of him for a long time and feel like I should have protected her(?).

Sue

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2006
Mon, 06-26-2006 - 11:02pm

Sue,

My suggestion, for whatever it's worth, is to show him what you just wrote here. I think you said everything in a kind and non-critical way, and your dh should not take offense. Maybe he just doesn't "see" it the same way that you and your dd do. It might be worth it to give him an opportunity to see his behavior from other perspectives or for him to explain why he is the way he is.

Amelia

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
Tue, 06-27-2006 - 12:51am

Sue,

Sending {{hugs}} your way, I know how you feel, I have a similar thing going on here with my DH and DD, too. Like you, I am very affectionate, always hugging and kissing DD and DS both ... lots of 'I love you's', etc.

So ... my FIL has and has always had a rather inappropriate relationship with my SIL. She was the 'baby girl' after three boys and she still, at 44+, is his 'baby girl'. Ugh. It's gross. Nothing sexual, I'm sure, but when a grown man asks his married adult daughter questions about her sex life -- positions, frequency, etc. -- it's just inappropriate.

Anyway, DH has always been aware of that relationship and unfortunately goes to the other extreme to make sure that anything he does with his own DD cannot be interpreted or misconstrued in any way. He was very affectionate with her as a baby and little girl, but when she got older and started developing, he started cutting down on the hugs and kisses. He still gives them occassionally, just is not as free with them as he used to be. I used to be able to see the sadness and confusion in her face when she went for a hug and a kiss and he cut her short. It IS heartbreaking. Do you suppose this may be some of what is happening with your DH? He doesn't want to appear overly affectionate in a way that could be interpreted as inappropriate?

I said something about it once to DH and he got quite defensive -- 'my daughter KNOWS I love her'. It was hard for me to be sure that she did indeed, know that he loved her then. I honestly don't have any ideas on how to approach this with your DH since it didn't work so well for me.

So when DD started high school last year, DH became the one primarily responsible for getting her to and from school. They spend two hours every day in the car together. I think it has really helped DD re-connect with him in a non-physical way and I understand they now have great conversations during their commute. That is something I am very grateful for.

It is way cool that your DD bought her dad tickets for the jazz concert. Maybe after tonight is all over, you can tell him how much she enjoyed having dad all to herself and suggest they do it regularly?

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-18-2005
Tue, 06-27-2006 - 7:01am

Thanks for your response. It *did* help me to put it all in writing, and maybe that will help me presetn it to him in a nonjudging way.

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-18-2005
Tue, 06-27-2006 - 7:04am

Thanks, Julie.

I thought about not wanting to be inappropriate, and I guess that could be part of it.

My DD and DH have been commuting together too, and like yours it's made a huge impact on both of them. They will really miss it this summer when she's not going to school. My DH does great when the relating is *about* something (i.e., the jazz, or an upcoming test), and that's been what works best for DD.

I could hear my DH saying "she knows I love her" and that makes me a little mad, like the problem is with my DD in not reading his behavior right rather than with him not giving enough.

Thanks for your support.

Sue

Avatar for heartsandroses2002
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 06-27-2006 - 9:25am

Over the years I have had to bring things like this to my H's attention. He is my dds's stepdad, but he's been in thier lives since they were 2 and 4, so he's essentially thier dad. He too used to have a hard time being expressive with the girls, except when it was protocol, like holidays and birthdays, the hugs were sparse. I had to bite the bullet and mention it to him. At first he was defensive. I had to try again and again until I was able to raise the subject without his hackles going up. Eventually, and slowly, he was more receptive and without much discussion, he simply started to be more affectionate and spend little bits of time with the girls. Sometimes, during thier mid-teen years it's been more difficult for him, but he's definitely better than he ever was.

He learned that both girls enjoyed going to the park to play tennis. He learned that they younger dd enjoyed bike riding with him = alone. He learned that the older dd likes it when he works on her car with her. He's learned that even a short ride to the dumps can be a moment to make memorable if they say, stop and get a hot dog for lunch or swing by his most recent job (he builds houses). It's those little things, time spent one on one, that make my dd's feel special to him. And he finally figured that out - with a few nudges from me.

I think it's time for you and H to take a long drive and you can just bring it up without putting him on the defensive. Let him know that it's really REALLY important as her father to show her appropriate affection and attention so she doesn't seek it out in inappropriate ways from the wrong types of guys later, if you know what I mean. How he treats her and pays attention to her and lets her know his love for her plays an important role in her future relationships with men. He needs to know that. Best of luck!

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-30-2003
Tue, 06-27-2006 - 10:39am

I had a warm huggy daddy too. I ADORED that man and when he died when I was 28, my heart felt like it would never beat again. My husband and my daughter had a great relationship when she was little. She would run to him when he came home from work. He'd pick her up and toss her in the air. She'd wear his big old sweatshirts around the house and he would laugh with her at how silly she looked. He would read her bed time stories every night before she fell asleep. It was wonderful and I felt they were on their way to the same kind of relationship I had with my dad.

Then she began to grow up. Like your husband, mine also went through a bout with a deep depression when she was about 5-6. She learned to survive without him for a long time. I tried my best to fill the gap but it wasn't the same. It was a few years before he finally was himself again but by that time they had grown apart. Don't get me wrong. He ADORES her and she loves him too but that closeness just isn't there.

I have spoken to him about this on various occasions and he says that MY relationship with my dad was special and I shouldn't expect that every girl and her dad will have that kind of bond. I suppose he's right but still.

My husband is also not a big talker. He's fond of saying that he's allergic to people while I'll talk to trees!! It's really not an understatement even if it is a bit funny. His mom and dad, while nice people, are not the huggy-mushy type either. They only deal with things when things go wrong, the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" type. Since both their sons never gave them a moments trouble they just all sorta lived in the same house and that's about it. I think growing up like that leaves it's mark. My daughter, in a fit of anger, will say, "the only time he talks to me is when he thinks I've done something wrong". Now, that's not true, but it is the way she sees it and the way it obviously was when he was growing up too.

As to what to tell your daughter, you're on the right track. Tell her the truth. She's 15, not 6. Tell her what you told us (modified where needed, of course). Tell her she's old enough to understand the things that make a man tick. He's not going to be the first man in her life that will confuse her or make her nuts, am I right? Best she learn from dad and not some jerk out there.

I remember when my husband had his last bad depression bout, she was about 11. When she was 5 it was "daddy just doesn't feel well and we have to let him rest". At 11, I told her the truth, modified, as I said before. She thought he didn't like her or something because he was so withdrawn. At 5, me and her toys and her cats were enough to distract her. At 11, she needed more. At 15.....

You should let your husband know how his behavior affects her. You can't change him only he can do that. He loves her, he'll want her to know it more.

UGH...this got long too!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2006
Tue, 06-27-2006 - 11:20am

<>

That seems to be the way it works, doesn't it? Sadly, that is the way my DH is with EVERYONE. He can talk till he's blue in the face about things that interest HIM, but if the conversation isn't about something he's into, he just can't be bothered. He can be downright rude -- getting up from the dinner table and walking away, waving a hand dismissively ... you get the idea. :-(

He and DD do share a hobby as well -- horses. Now, this happens to be DH's absolute passion and DD is quite a fine cowgirl herself (we ride western) and he is always happy and willing (even offers) to take her for a ride -- tacks up her horse and EVERYTHING. But while DD enjoys the horses, it's not something she wants to do every single day -- like he does. I have recently noticed that she has been sitting to watch cowboy movies with him, going on more rides, etc. than in the past. I don't know if she genuinely wants to do/see/watch those things as often as she has lately, or if she just wants to spend more time with dad. I guess it doesn't really matter, it's her decision. It would just sure be nice if he would take the same effort to relate to her on things other than horses! Young people have lots of different interests. Instead, he speaks to me about everything else going on in her life. Actually, he does the same thing with younger DS too. Once I got a little snotty and said something like 'You're his/her parent, too! Why don't you talk to him/her yourself about this!' Frustrating!

Anyway ... I didn't mean for this to turn all about me! How did the concert go? Do you think there are other things the two of them can do together?




Edited 6/27/2006 11:20 am ET by hydrangea_blue

 

 

 

Avatar for suzyk2118
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-1997
Tue, 06-27-2006 - 11:46am

Only having a boy, I can say dh is definitely not the 'huggy' type with ds. He's not terribly physical, period - not much PDA, if you know what I mean, with anyone. A hug on greeting my folks, but that's it, and not much with me. I'm used to it and ds is also used to it. My parents are also not that into physical stuff so I guess it's just a way I was raised. My dh's family is more the huggy/kissy type when they get together (often); I do it to 'comply' but I'd definitely never initiate it.

I actually dated a guy from Austria back in grad school and his parents wanted us to break up because I didn't always shake hands and hug them when we greeted or parted; it just wasn't a natural thing for me, and to them that was an affront. I certainly wasn't trying for that!

So I think in some cases it makes sense to explain what you'd like, to get the other in tune; I seriously doubt it's a personal thing; it's more just what someone's used to doing or not doing.

JMHO.
Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2005
Tue, 06-27-2006 - 5:26pm

Can I say that I'm just envious you all are even having this conversation? I did not have a good relationship with my dad once I developed (there seems to be a common thread here). I don't remember even being cognizant of wanting a better relationship with him - I just internalized all of that and moved on. As a grown woman, I now have a "better" relationship with him - but it will never come close to that I have with my mother. My dad is also not the huggy type - we like to say he's not prejudiced, he hates ALL people...

I'm very sensitive about the fact that looking back, I might have had more confidence in myself had I had a better relationship with my dad - if nothing else, at dealing with the other men in my life. I wanted better for my own dd, but I can't do much more than I have. Intestingly, my dd does not *appear* to want or need any kind of relationship with dh - and I've seen him try, at least.

Good for you that your dd tries...yes, it's kind of weird that she tries harder than he does, but good for her, knowing what she wants and going after it!

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-18-2005
Tue, 06-27-2006 - 9:40pm

Thanks for the suggestions. Part of my problem is that when my DH gets defensive, I back off. I need to be stronger - for myself and my DD.

My DH has done better in the last couple of years, because he and my DD travel into Manhattan together every day. They get a half hour or so to catch up on stuff, and there've been times when he knows stuff even before I do. I don't think it would be that much more for him to be a bit more expressive.

Sue

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