Typical grades question

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-29-2005
Typical grades question
26
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 12:28pm

Looking for opinions here, so fire away:


DS 15yo is a freshman in HS. Always needs prodding to keep grades up.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-03-2006
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 1:35pm

I have had a similar experience with my 17yo DD, so maybe this will help.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 1:46pm

Well, first of all: didn't you just have a baby, or do I have you mixed up with someone else? I thought you were due imminently.
Secondly, this is a subject near and dear to my heart. Our situation is a bit different, because we did find out recently that ds17 has a cluster of learning disabilities, and central auditory processing disorder. All those years of struggling, and we never knew. We thought he was just lazy...teachers, of course, thought he had ADD. But believe it or not, on top of all this, he is lazy, in addition to the LD. The reason is because something which may seem pretty simple to the rest of us is like a mountain to climb for him and by now he is just so tired of it all. I go through the same thing: is it fair to "punish" him for bad grades? The way we're doing it now is similar to what you're doing: he is restricted from activities until he accomplishes missing work. I have to monitor in a way no parent of a junior in h.s. should, but if I don't he literally won't graduate from h.s. and that is not something I can allow to happen. As for college, he will go to jr. college (we have some of the best in the country) IF he can manage that responsibility. But it will have to be up to him too. At that point, I will be out of it entirely other than "guidance". It might be best for him to go to a trade school. The point is to be happy. I happen to know alot of engineers with a whole lot of education who are stuck behind a desk all day and extremely miserable. It can't all be about the money. Some kids are going to be police officers, and some will be firefighters (a friend became 'only' a firefighter to his parent's dismay, until they saw his first year's salary!).

I do think you're right in that he is going to have to own up to his responsibilities. It's okay to let him deal with the consequences. Just make sure you don't imply that he will be a failure if he doesn't get into university, because that could hurt his self esteem. Let him know he'll have to chose the career he would like to be involved in. Once he knows what he wants to do maybe everything else will fall into place. Some kids have to see the "carrot", as you said right in front of them. Right now all he probably sees is alot of boring school work.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-05-2006
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 2:01pm

Betty-

How is it that each family can produce children with differing educational drives? We have a 23yo DS & 16yo DD. DS is pursuing doctoral fellowship in clinical psychology, all thru high school he was self motivated, honor student and driven to excel in school. Honestly, at times it seemed all he needed to do was hold the book up to his head and all the information entered his brain.

16yo DD is also an honor student, however she requires constant prodding, checking, asking to see work and general parental nagging about school work (including ongoing meetings with the teachers). We have tried both approaches the carrot method and the consequences method (I prefer not to use punishment). Left to her own devices she would probably maintain a C- average, when she is clearly capable of honor level grades.

I ramble on to say that teenagers, at least mine, who have no concept of what challenges the world holds for them as an adult will mostly likely choose the easiest course. For DD, her easiest choice was turning in homework when she felt like it and studying when she felt it would benefit her.

Sounds like your DS is also capable of performing up to his educational potential as well, but clearly lacks internal motivation to do so, regardless of the carrots you dangle. Just as with all things in our children's lives I believe it is our job to motivate, give incentives, consequences and communicate until we discover the culprit. Even if college is not what he wants to pursue upon graduation (perish the thought, I know), he will have the option thanks to your efforts.

I noticed he is a freshman in HS, this is often a difficult time for teens adjusting to the conversion to the HS environment, both socially and academically.

It is his responsibility to own his education, but do you really want to look at him when he is 25yo and say we left it up to you son? Just my 2 cents.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-20-2005
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 2:18pm

This is a subject about which I have very strong feelings.

I have a 17 year old son who is classfied ADHD - Getting him to do homework has been a chore since 1st or second grade. He's never worked up to his potential, and he's always taken the "easy" way - we've made all sorts of adjustments (as has the school, but the truth is, he just doesn't feel like it.

Thought senior year would start, he could show up at Yale's door, and they'd be so happy to see him, they'd just let him in - and boy, did he get hit with that door in the face hard!

First of all, I refuse to "leave it up to them." We are adults - and they are children - it is our JOB to make sure they get educated (or at least get to the place where they become educated).

That being said, I agree with the parent that said "there's only so much you can do." At some point, you have to allow them to experience the natural and logical consequences of their behavior. They are becoming adults, and they have to learn to pay adult prices - these ain't the kiddy rides anymore.

My method is matter-of-fact and, while it allows my son to make his own choices and own mistakes, doesn't put me in a position of throwing my hands up and "giving up."

1. My son has a curfew for school nights and a curfew for weekends. When I get his progress report, if it shows he's in danger of failing anything, his curfew on school nights becomes "you don't go out on school nights." My rationale? "Obviously you need more time to study." His curfew on the weekend is brought back an hour. This stays in effect until I get the report card.

If there's any particular activity (audition for a show, go on a trip, etc.) during that time that he wants to do, he needs to bring me notes, signed by each of his teachers, indicating he's made up missing work.

2. When I get his report card, if he fails anything, the mandated curfew is in effect until the next progress report.

It's not really a "punishment" per se (although I guess he sees it as such), but my attitude is that if my child is going to choose to fail, he's not going to do it running around town every night - because then it looks like I'm not doing my job - and passing school is HIS job.

Avatar for suzyk2118
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-1997
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 2:37pm

I have somewhat the same issues with my ds14 freshman. I'm not honestly going to say he's lazy because I think he just feels he knows enough and in previous years was able to absorb enough in his working memory to make due and make very decent grades. This year, it's not proving adequate. I've gotten help via his biology teacher recommending he talk to the reading specialist - she found he's fine on reading/comprehension (I knew that!) but he seems to lack the discipline it takes to get info into long term memory, necessary for HS tests and work in general. So she talked to each of his teachers and got very candid input (the not so pretty stuff; this was not to tell him any good stuff other than they all think he's very creative but wish he'd use it). Basically he's a very quiet but very bright and creative kid. But if teachers don't know him, he looks like he just sits there and doesn't participate/care. And although they have a 90 minute study hall where he can pop in to their rooms every other day, that's just not something he's comfortable with. So she suggested I stay TOTALLY out of it (she said the mom/teen son dynamic is very volatile and it's MUCH better to put the responsibility on the dad!); I can ask how his day went, talk about school in general, but it's now up to dh to ask to see the work (not that I ever did that; I just would ask if he's done what he needs to do), help him study for tests and get him over this long term memory issue, etc. Hey, I kinda like this - I'm no longer the 'heavy' but ds is welcome to come to me to share work, ask for help, etc.; I just can't be the one riding him. DH determines the carrot and stick (we talk; he then makes it sound like it's all his idea - again, I'm no longer the heavy). It's new; we only started this as of yesterday, so I'll let you know how it goes. She definitely said to have both carrots and sticks defined in detail; if the carrot is an extra hour of video/computer time, so be it. If the stick is NO video/computer time, great. For her ds, when he was a sophomore, the carrot was driving time to work toward the license; the stick was no driving time so putting off the license. Later it was party time with friends on weekends. It evolves.

I guess all I'm saying is I totally relate. You need to set up a game plan, preferrably with your dh (and IIRC, he's not your ds's dad, but you still need to figure out how to work this in if your dh is willing to be the male figure in this vital role). Best of luck; it's going to be very hard keeping silent on my part in our house, let me tell you! I can offer advice, but only during dinner; in the morning or later, he wants to 'turn off' school talk, so we'll try it a bit...

But no, based on the reading specialist's 25 years in the business, it is NOT ok to leave it up to teens to make such choices on their own yet; we are not there to nag/hound, but we can tell them that they'll have 'fewer choices' if they go the route they've been going...

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-29-2005
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 2:41pm

Thanks for the replies. I think an important point was made earlier about college = success ergo happiness. Of course we ALL know the two things are mutually exclusive. I don't think those who go to trade or junior colleges are destined to take my coffee orders and scrape by miserably any more than I believe Harvard produces nothing by Bill Gates'. Yes, I get the joke I made ha ha.


We have told the boy over and over that life is made EASIER by going to university but that happiness is truly the key to life. I took the same route the boy is chosing so he knows how hard I struggled to catch up all these years. He knows DH took smart route and had a good outcome. DH and I went to same HS (coincidently) so we all agree playing field was more or less even in both our cases barring polar opposite home life (guess which one had rotten parents). I don't want for him to come back at 25 and say Mom you hung me out to dry. BUT do we really affect his motivation by forcing him to play his hand? Ultimately we can only motivate ourselves

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 2:46pm

I think it is more appropriate to hand over their education junior or senior year.

For some obscure reason, I seem to feel one should pound their head against the wall vigorously for 2 years before giving up-go figure!

I DO think we parents as a whole tend to focus too much on attending a highly rated four year college directly out of high school and finishing in 4 years

There are other options and they're not so bad(having lived this for 3 and 1/2 years now)

Community colleges, tech schools, 3rd and 4th tier colleges

So what if they work and take two classes at a time and dont get a degree for years-heck, after age 25 they are eligible for all sorts of fast track programs. One could probably make an argument.......

You can certainly make a financial argument for community college for ANYONE. Those first two years are general ed, it seems many kids either have no idea what they want to do or end up changing their first choice, the diploma comes from the school they end up transferring to anyhow. We tend to think it's for the less than perfect students but I think it's a find for anyone!

Oddly enough, neither of my boys has got too excited about the 'fun' part. Which is odd to DH and I as we loved college(didnt think DH would ever give it up, actually)

The oldest didnt live in the dorm so we figured surely that was it but DS2 is in a dorm and his feelings about 'fun' have been mixed. They are so strict in the dorms anymore-perhaps a consequence of helicopter parenting?

Anyway, my BTDT advice is to stop talking about college or any of that future stuff they dont seem to grasp(although I know other peoples kids seem to)and just state your expectations and the consequences of them not being met. I would use Dr Phils 'this is your job' line or something similar and how it is YOUR job to see they do theirs

You want at least a C in every class, perhaps? (be careful to distinguish between a C grade average and a C 'in every class'-I got caught on THAT one)

Maybe if you lower your expectations it will get better. If not, Im all for handing it off about age 17

Avatar for suzyk2118
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-1997
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 2:47pm

Congrats to you and dh, and welcome to Robert!!

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-29-2005
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 2:50pm
I should make it clear that we are already employing logical consequences. Work not turned in = no phone, no computer, no tv, basically grounded until work turned in. Carrots are rewarded at semester for straight Bs. Carrots are predetermined by the boys. Examples of carrots are driver's ed, ski bus, playstation, new bike. You get the picture. I have TRIED carrot and stick. I have tried nagging. I have tried meeting with teachers. I have tried everything in my toolbox. There

Avatar for suzyk2118
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-1997
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 3:05pm

If dh is unwilling to be the male/heavy in this, is there someone (school counselor, some kind of tutor, etc.) that COULD be instead of you? You don't need this now (with baby, and just in general - I know I didn't need it and he's my only!). You need to find someone else to play the heavy, providing consequences, laying out what would happen if ds does this or that...finding new carrots/sticks, etc. Best of luck...

Sue, feeling fortunate dh is willing to be my 'heavy' (but boy have I gotten the snide comments from him, even on the first day out of the gate on this! Guess he had no clue what all this takes!!)

edited to add - the other option that the reading specialist gave me was to email the teachers and have them be the heavies; ds wouldn't have to know this is being done. I wasn't sure I liked that idea, but if there were no alternatives...




Edited 12/11/2006 4:15 pm ET by suzyk2118

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