Typical grades question
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Typical grades question
| Mon, 12-11-2006 - 12:28pm |
Looking for opinions here, so fire away:
DS 15yo is a freshman in HS. Always needs prodding to keep grades up.
| Mon, 12-11-2006 - 12:28pm |
Looking for opinions here, so fire away:
DS 15yo is a freshman in HS. Always needs prodding to keep grades up.
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Congratulations, Betty!
I completely agree with your very well thought out argument. I'm going to take a wild guess that dh had the rotten home life.
P.S. You are probably better off without a girl...speaking from a woman who prayed for a girl and is now wondering what she was thinking. LOL.
I have the EXACT same situation with DS15. DS has always been an average student, but could be on the honor roll if he would just put in a little effort. He's a good kid, popular, but just does not feel that school is "worth the effort". And we've done it all, threats about how he won't get into college, long talks about what the real world's like, rewards for good grades & punishment for Ds/Fs - all with the same result which is no real change in his behavior.
I was so stressed for so long (especially when the neighbor talks about her "gifted & talented" kids - uuggh!). But I'm coming to the realization that we cannot always make our kids be who we want them to be. Yes, of course education is important and they need to pass their courses (with as much parenting as is necessary from us to get them to graduation), but will the world end if he doesn't get into Harvard? Of course not! So many successfuly people are not ivy-league educated and really, that's not what makes someone a success. You could take someone with a high school degree & if they are passionate about something they will be successful in life, emotionally as well as financially. I think we need to take these kids who are not motivated by schoolwork and figure out what does motivate them and then help them focus in a different direction. I'm discovering my son is really the outdoorsy kinda guy and he's starting to talk a little about veterinary work and/or park ranger work. (And yes, I know veterinary school is tough - but he'll have to climb that mountain on his own if he chooses that path. He wouldn't be the first 40 year old to graduate from med school!)
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At 15 I believe it is a bit premature to do this. All three of my kids had the academic burp around 14-15. (including myself at that age). What you describe sounds just like mine/ (me). They “got” it; they just didn’t “do” it. Their missing and incomplete work made me crazy. Things turned dramatically better the next year. I’d take more of a “hybrid” approach:
I think it’s a mistake to do daily hovering of checked notebooks, checked homework, and nightly reviews of assignments which turn house and home into an academic boot camp. That teaches them nothing and doesn’t foster independent development of study habits and time management. It also does not make for a very pleasant evening. I’d continue checking the grades in real time and based on what you see around Thurs. or Fri., make your decision regarding his activities for the weekend when most of what he wants to do probably takes place anyway. I’d curtail most school night socialization other than extracurriculars. Myspace and IM are a huge waste of time that can easily eat up an entire evening. I had blocked both 3 years ago, and despite the huge initial protest does not seem to have caused irreparable social isolation as claimed. My approach was simple; “You didn’t do X this week so I’m not inclined to allow you to Y”. No yelling. No screaming. No emotional imploring to “make something of themselves.”
It doesn’t sound like you do that anyway. In fact, Betty I think we have very similar styles. We both like cause and effect and logical consequences
None of the weekly restrictions and weekend consequences were presented as “punishments”. Rather, I was hopefully setting the logical framework for them to allow themselves to succeed. Right now, school is their "job". In 8th grade, DD was the same as your DS. Now at 16 she is completely on her own with schoolwork. There’s light at the end of the tunnel.
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When your DS has the cajones to admit he “blew it”, I find this highly unlikely. My middle guy (now in his senior year of college) was the master manipulator at 15 with every excuse in the book. MY fear was that he truly was doing the best he could and no matter what, it wasn’t “good enough.” In hindsight, completely unfounded.
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Yes! We should never equate self worth to academic success. I’ve read and enjoyed enough of your posts to not think you would. OTOH, you’re describing a very typical early teen with good intelligence, no learning disability, tests well, but doesn’t complete assignments. Eventually the synapses will connect and he will do this on his own. In the meantime, he still needs those carrots. Not really a Hobson if he turns the work in, is it?
D
PS Congrats on your new arrival!
I have to say I agree with most of what's being said here...I especially like Daddioe's comment - "school is their JOB."
I feel many parents get caught up in the "responsibility" game - this was particularly true of me - whatever my child did - whether it be wrong or right - was a direct reflection of my parenting - if he made a wrong choice, and screwed up in public, it was because I had done something wrong raising him.
This weekend I had an ephiphany of sorts - I can teach everything I can - by example and by mouth - I can advise, and offer my opinion, but ultimately, it is my son's responsibility to exhibit himself appropriately - and if he exhibits negative behavior, it is NOT because I didn't teach him right - it's because he's screwed up.
That is NOT to say that there aren't times when parents do NOT teach their kids right - and we've all seen those parents - and I guess I didn't want to be taken as one of "them" - the "bad parents that spend too much time worrying about themselves to teach their kids the right and wrong way to go."
Having accepted that I am NOT one of those parents, and that if my son screws up, it's not because I didn't do my job, but because he didn't do HIS, I have relaxed a little on trying to push him in certain directions. His social life, relationships - I'm pretty much backing away from everything - letting him make his own mistakes - the rules of the house are still in order, and he has to follow them, but as long as he is, I stay out of his life (ex - he's not allowed to use the computer past 11 pm - until then, I don't hover over him to see what he's doing - but at 11, he stops - no matter what he's doing).
Having said all this, if anyone's still reading, we come to school. You can beat yourself over the head - you can beat your KIDS over the head - but the truth is, you are not going to make the "stubbornly lazy" student do any more work than he/she wants to - no matter how hard you try, and no matter what you take away.
Which is when we become matter-of-fact - and employ Daddieo's comment of "it's your job." If I am late to work, I have to make up the time. If I'm late repeatedly, I could be disciplined. If I don't get done what I'm supposed to get done by the end of the day, I have to stay and finish. All these are the natural and logical consequences of doing my "job." If I work hard, and exceed the expectations of my boss, I could get let out early for the day, or taken out to lunch, or one of any number of other "perks."
Same thing - if you go to school, and you do your work, you get to do things like go on the computer, use the phone, etc. - if you don't, then essentially, you've not gotten your work done for the day, and you need to stay home and do it. That's it - end of story. This isn't going to "make" him go to college - or trade school - and it's may not motivate him to do any more work - but you've put the responsibility in his hands to do his "job" - while at the same time recognizing that you, as the parent, cannot let him do whatever he wants if you're AWARE he's not doing his job.
The setting up communication with the teachers behind DS back kind of disturbs me - if I do anything like that, I let DS know I'm doing it - because I feel I have to.
Remember - it's their job to make mistakes - but it's OUR job to RAISE them - and as far as I'm concerned, that responsibility lasts until they are adults.
Phew! Hope that made sense!
"The setting up communication with the teachers behind DS back kind of disturbs me - if I do anything like that, I let DS know I'm doing it - because I feel I have to."
I've always done that too, and will likely continue. I think the reading specialist's point on that one was more that we do have the teachers there to use as well, so don't hesitate getting them involved. But I would definitely tell ds if I had to go that route, and I know he'd HATE it if he found I'd contacted them without his knowledge; he'd think I was undermining him (and I wouldn't blame him; I would've too). She said if you're having trouble leaning on your teen, ask the teachers to do it. I would hate to have to rely on that, but I suppose I would, if need be. Thankfully we're not there yet!
Sue
EXACTLY Daddioe, you get me entirely. RE "hovering" yes I agree that is a waste of time and can produce the opposite effect.
You make me laugh - the mistress of teenage manipulation, hmm? I think my son has you beat for that title.
I like how you think, though - and I like the idea of being firm - and using consequences AND carrots (anything above D's gets you one thing, B's gets you something more).
The one thing I do question, however, has nothing to do with your child - you made the comment: "We are state school people. Anyone with average intelligence and gumption should get into state school easily."
I personally take a bit of offense at that comment. I work for a state school - the education provided is incredible and very comprehensive, the national recognition is wide, and the minimum GPA and SAT scores for admission are higher than many private colleges. The idea that anyone with "average intelligence" should get into state school easily is an indicator that a state school is not "as good" as a private college - somehow I think the administration of NYU or UCLA might disagree vehemently with that.
Sorry to get off track - and by no means do I mean to insult you - sometimes things just hit me the wrong way.
(Our question is this: is it a BAD IDEA to tell DS "OK, its just simply YOUR responsibility to OWN your education".)
It's a great idea if you don't mind him living with you until he's 35. It is in YOUR best interest to push him to(and it's a lot of work) get the grades, graduate, go to college, graduate, get a job, move out, get a life.
Your post seems to imply that not going to college = staying at home till you're 35. Sorry but I disagree that things are that cut and dry. Even if your kid doesn't go to college, you can still push him out the door. I've seen other parents do it and sometimes its the one thing that can wake up a kid and make him realize he's got to make something out of his life. Let's face it, some kids are late bloomers. I had many friends who did not go to college. They fell into jobs that they liked and worked their way up in the company. Some started their own businesses and became quite successful. Sure, it's not ideal but its not a given that lack of a college education = failure.
There are even people like myself who did not finish college, have a good paying job and own two homes. Shockingly, I'm almost 46 and have lived out of my parents home for many, many years. Definitely not 35, 'k?
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