what do you think of this? Re; kid/job
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what do you think of this? Re; kid/job
| Thu, 08-10-2006 - 7:12pm |
This is a little weird and I'm not sure what I think of it - help me process! My 15 year old ds went to a sleep over at a friend's house last night. My husband saw him this morning while out for a drive - and he was working at an apartment building tearing out carpet for the friend's dad (a professional flooring installer)! So we wait to see what he's going to say - and he calls at about 4:00 int he afternoon to say "oh yeah, and I have a job. I'll be working there for at least a couple more weeks." I asked "What is he paying you? Are you covered under workman's compensation?" etc. and he had no clue. So my thought is he should NOT have taken a job without asking permission (he doesn't see why he should have to ask), and the kid's dad REALLY shouldn't have GIVEN him a job without asking me, or at least making sure Austin called. Am I out of touch on this one? Anyway, I went over there and conveyed that to both of them. Got my questions answered ($8.00 an hour, and yes he's covered under insurance). And I told Austin that he could ONLY be allowed to work there if he lets me know his schedule in advance, and if his chores around here are done (and he doesn't have many - just to keep his room clean, empty the dishwasher, and take out the garbage once a week). He also figured that he was going to sleep over there every night so he'd be ready for work in the morning, and I said no way to that - he's already been over there so much I think they're paying more to feed him than I am. Maybe they don't mind, but *I* don't feel comfortable about it.

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I think I'd be a concerned about this too. IMO, it looks like friends' dad is taking advantage of a 15yo for some pretty cheap manual labor.
So ... if your DS is on the payroll and covered under workers' comp, has your DS filled out a W-4? Have you seen any of the 'standard' new employee paperwork -- W-4, employee handbook/policies, benefits info, etc.? If he's going to be working for a few more weeks, what about a work permit? I don't know if those actually apply during the summer, but school is going to start soon.
I also agree that you should have been consulted first so that you, as a parent, know that your DS' employer is on the up-and-up with regard to all this.
If this guy is trying to get by without all this by paying your DS under the table, which I suspect he is, you may want to insist your DS be put on the payroll and be subject to all the appropriate taxes and withholdings. My HR experience is limited and many moons ago, but if there IS an on-site injury, I doubt if your DS will be covered under workers' comp insurance if he isnt' actually listed ON the payroll records as an employee.
Even more moons ago, my older DB got a 'job' under similar circumstances -- all oral agreements, no paperwork, etc. Guess what? He never got paid anything at all! The employer denied every having 'hired' him.
Time to get involved, mom.
I agree the situation needs to be checked out. Number 1 is to make sure he is safe. In addition to what the other poster mentinoed, some types of tasks are not allowed for minors. For example, my DD was not supposed to operate the trash compactor until she was 18. If it were me, my talk with the other parent would depend on how well I knew him and whether I thought he was taking advantage or just a little nieve.
On the other hand, it's great that your son is willing to and excited about working. If he shows good work habits, it could lead to something more stable when he is older. It's an excellent age to also learn about being responsible about money and time.
I agree he needs to sleep at home, at least most nights. You could always use the "you need a good night's sleep because you are working" line.
Good luck!
I hate to disagree with you, but here goes...
A 15 yr. old boy has an opportunity to get a "real" job (no doubt in his eyes)working for pay tearing an apartment apart? It's a dream come true. 8 Bucks an hour doesn't seem unreasonable for unskilled manual labor at that age. He doesn't appear to be doing anything dangerous. He's so excited about it he doesn't even ask what his pay rate is and he wants to get to work early by staying at his friends house? I think thats sooo typical and kind of cute. But I can understand you wanting to pull back on the idea of him "camping" at his friends house.
Mom, I'd support his enthusiasm. He's doing something productive, earning some money and staying out of trouble.
Workers' Compensation laws are statutory. It doesn't matter if he gets a paycheck, gets taxes taken out, or gets paid under the table. If he gets hurt while doing anything for this guy, his insurance pays and it's primary. That said, it would not be unreasonable for you to ask him for evidence of his insurance coverage. It would also not be unreasonable for his boss to just write him a check to skip the social security and medicare taxes he'd have to pay if it went through payroll.
Frankly, given this opportunity I think my boys would have found it difficult if not impossible to say, Well...I gotta check with my mom first."
As far as his chores go, I'd tell him now that he's a workin' man, his responsibilities at home do not stop, but they can be done around his work schedule. If they do not get done, his paying job stops. I think he'll be quite motivated to get them done. :-)
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Really, daddio? If there isn't a record of somebody working for somebody else (by way W-4 filing or something like that) how would the insurance company know or be receptive to paying for injuries, should they happen?
Way back when, I managed a small property management company and one of my duties was to make sure that all those employee related forms got filed with the appropriate agency in a timely manner.
If there is no formal documentation of the boys' employment, what happens if something does go wrong on the job? It would be too easy for the employer to say there was never any agreement, he didn't actually hire him, the kid just kept showing up for something to do ... or something equally as devious, just to avoid any increases in insurance fees or workers' comp claims.
My DD had to fill out dozens of forms for a VOLUNTEER job a few weeks ago. Seems like there should be something on file for a paid position.
Just curious ... I know you are legally minded!
Julie
Edited 8/10/2006 10:35 pm ET by hydrangea_blue
If disputed, there would be legal depositions. Granted, under oath the kids buddy and father (boss) could conspire and lie saying he never hired the kid. He was just hanging around being a pest, etc. He'd have to be incredibly dumb to do that. He'd hang his butt out a country mile, and it's several persons word against others. He'd be subject to civil and/or criminal penalties. Why not just let the insurer take care of it. It's what he's paying insurance costs for.
In your job as a manager, it sounds like you did all the right stuff
and were on top of all the mounds of paperwork. Yet, if someone were injured and his paperwork somehow fell through the cracks, he would still be provided comp coverage. (Employer provided heath insurance would be a different story).
The situation with your DD brings up an interesting point, related to the above. Volunteers are generally excluded from the comp system depending on the state. Larger organizations that use volunteers take great pains and lots of paper to document they ARE indeed volunteers. I'll bet they needed to know if DD has medical insurance, emergency contacts, if she's ever been arrested, etc...etc.. You can legally ask a lot more personal questions from a volunteer than a job applicant. It's to clarify the relationship and protect the organizations legal liability as well.
I'll get off the box now. Probably more than you ever wanted to know.. lol
I think the only thing A did wrong here is not talk to mom about this job.
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LOL ... actually daddio, your explanation was quite informative! I was really puzzled by DD having to go through so much just to volunteer -- sexual harrassment policies, EEOC paperwork, all that kind of stuff. I brushed it off as the company, a very well known museum in Balboa Park, just wanting to CYA on all accounts because of the public nature of the not only the museum, but of volunteer work DD would be doing.
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I wasn't sure about that part of the comp insurance. When one of the carpenters ran a Skill saw over his finger and cut 1/3 of it off, the owner of the property management co. was all in a tizzy making sure the all the insurance premiums were paid and employee data was current. I also remember him getting all hot and bothered about the potential rise in his insurance rates. The same employee was known to be something of a clutz and it wasn't his first injury OR claim.
Anyway, I guess from living in sue-crazy California most of my life and having been in the position of having to make sure everyone's backside was covered well in advance of any catastrophe, it's just a part of me to look at things from a 'worst possible scenario' point of view. Drives my DH nuts; he says I'm a 'glass half-empty' kind of person. I prefer the term 'realistic' but there is probably a bit of truth to his claim :-).
Thanks for getting on your soapbox! Truly, it is useful information to have.
Julie
Edited 8/11/2006 10:51 am ET by hydrangea_blue
Be careful. Different country & different rules. American laws do not apply in Canada.
The mom should call the Ministry of Labour/Province of Alberta and find out what the rules are for underage workers (under 16).
The wages are actually very good. Under 18, an employer doesn't have to pay min. wage and this 15-year-old is getting min. wage.
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