What's it like for the guys? ....
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What's it like for the guys? ....
| Tue, 10-09-2007 - 8:51am |
I only have one dd - no boys - and sometimes when the drama starts I have to sit back and wonder how the guys are viewing the subject.
This past weekend was our homecoming and dd had looked forward to it for so long - it ended up being a real bummer for her and for her date.
"S" and dd have been friends since 8th grade - they are now sophomores in high school.

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Yes, Pam, it is very hard to go back to "just being friends" with someone you used to date. And it rarely works. One person is usually still harbouring romantic intentions towards the other, and it's hard to realise that the other person is "over you" and doesn't want you that way anymore. I speak from experience.
I've dated two boys so far, they used to be best friends (but that is another story), and I broke up with the first boy due to his parents not approving of me not being a Pentecostal. I was 16 and he was 15, and he was my first boyfriend, first kiss, first date, et cetera. We dated for going on a month, and it was never fully-fledged. He was immature, and at times his comments made it seem like he was just going out with me because he wanted some sort of "cool" image. So that ended.
But we are still friends, three years later. Only he doesn't know that I still... I hesitate to say I fancy him even now, but there's definitely chemistry still there (and that's probably why our arguments are chaotic and occasionally get very nasty). I absolutely wouldn't take him back, though - they call it a break-up 'cause something's broken.
I have also experienced the "stalker boy". It went on for going on three years, and he was well-known to be obsessive in love. I lost count of the amount of times he threatened to hurt himself because I wouldn't go out with him. Looking back, it was nothing but pathetic. I only went out with him for two months and it annoyed me to think that I'd finally given in to someone who, at varying times, treated me like I was his angel on earth one minute, and like I was a dirty, vicious s**t another minute.
I lost my pride when I went out with him. He cheated with his schoolwork, he ignored me when he didn't want to hear from me, and all in all, I realise now that he was an absolute jerk. Do I regret going out with him? No. But I regret losing my pride and giving into the advances of a spineless, conniving pr**k - on his terms. I also know he'll never change.
It should have been on my terms, but I got tired of resisting, of his "I'm gonna kill myself" threats. The Ballad of Sonya and James culminated in a fight in a supermarket carpark where, in the presence of my mother, he said to her, "You're a pathetic cow", and when I thought about hitting him for that (but would not have actually gone through with it), he said to me, "Don't you hit me or I swear I'll f***ing hit you back!"
There are other incidents, but this is something I can never, ever forgive. That he admitted he could and would hit me scared me to death.
This is what the OP's daughter could end up with. My next message is to the OP's daughter, teenage girl to teenage girl. I hope she or her mother read it.
To the OP and her daughter:
My name is Sonya. Neither you nor your daughter knows me, but I am a 19 year-old girl, not long out of high school, and I want to let you and your daughter know some things. It's not advice, but it's the situation as I read it, and I read it thinking I know the kind of person you were both talking about. And they are not very nice.
I want to tell you that guys like this are dangerous. Rebuffing someone you used to date who is obsessed with the idea of getting back together is not fun or exciting or an adrenaline rush. In fact, surviving boys like this is exhausting and can drain you of your zest and your passion for living life to the fullest.
This boy is unhappy. No-one is denying that. But make no mistake, DD, this guy does not want anyone to be happy.
No wait, strike that.
In fact, he IS happy - because he is miserable. Weird, hey? Can you imagine that? Being happy because you're miserable? I don't think you could, because you don't have the same issues that this guy does. You don't see any pleasure in manipulating people into relationships, for one. You can't see the point.
This guy, though, well, he wants to be the puppet-master.
He is happy because he thinks he is able to manipulate you back into what he misses: your relationship.
But DD, he doesn't miss it, and he doesn't miss you. He's not grieving for losing your love; he just misses his control and hold on you, which he was forced to relinquish following your break-up. And that's what's keeping him unhappy.
Let's get something straight here: it's not you. It is never you. Do you hear me? Do not let ANYONE tell you you are to blame for this boy's problems. His problems are only yours when you make them yours, okay? It will destroy you to think that he is your problem. Anyone who tells you differently is no friend of yours.
I'm going to give you a few adjectives describing your ex-boyfriend. I bet he was really romantic and charming at the start. Your parents probably loved him to bits, almost like he was one of the family. It was beautiful and new and the glow of new romance is heady. The glow tends to blind you to what these people really are. But soon enough, it comes to the fore. They want to know if you really love them. No, really? Do you? Really, truly? And you say yes, because that's how you feel at the time. But soon enough, he's distant. He snaps at you when you ask what's wrong. You know it's the beginning of what's gonna be a long, painful ending, but you don't wanna admit it to yourself just then.
And after a suitable time lag, you think: gee, it would be nice if we could be friends. He says yes, of course it would. It's only a matter of time, and he admits that he misses what you had. Do you think you could possibly ever - and you're adamant, it's just friends now. But it's not enough. Nothing can ever be enough.
The truth of the matter is, DD, that you are not enough for him. As soon as he has it, he wonders: is the grass greener on the other side? You want to know if he can change, and he says yes. And for a while it does change. He's the perfect gentleman.
I'm really sorry, DD, but these people don't change. Why don't they change? It's not that they're not capable of such a thing. It's because they don't want to. They have no incentive. And no incentive could ever be enough.
This guy wants something that you can't, and should not, give. He wants all of you but will give you so little in return. People like this end up hitting their wives and children. People like this care nothing for other people. They care only as long as they see it benefiting them. You can't be their benefactor.
I firmly believe that only when these people realise how truly alone they are, is when they will change. But until then, they will lie, cheat, hurt and manipulate people.
But you can't stop them. It would be dangerous to try. Don't ever accuse them of these things, because they can't handle those truths being told to them by another. They must come across these truths themselves.
You can't help. Not now, probably not ever.
Look out for yourself now, DD. And Mum, I know you'll be your daughter's support. Her friends might think she's wrong for doing this, but not until they hurt her friends like they hurt DD will they ever understand. Our society unfortunately nurtures individuals like this. No matter what you do, whether you kiss them on the lips or ignore them as they jump off a cliff is totally irrelevant because they will always have their own interpretation.
And one thing I wish we could control, but can't, is another person's interpretations.
Good luck, DD. Stick to your guns. Please remember that you are not, nor will you ever be, in the wrong.
You can't be responsible for another person's actions. That's the nature of free will.
Edited 10/10/2007 5:57 am ET by abbag1rl
I am so sorry you were so hurt by a boy that you have this feeling about all boys....even those who might have an overly intense reaction to being rejected.....but it is true that some people can have reactions to others actions, and have it seem a bit over the top, but then the "normal" teenage drama dies down.
Sonya, that was inspired, especially for a 19 y/o!
When I was in college, I dated a man for a year that fits your description to a T.
Oh, by no means do I think this about all boys. I've met guys since "the ex", but I'm only in my first year out of high school (I'm at university) and one thing that I forgot about making friends is that it takes so much stamina and determination! I just haven't met anyone that sets my world on fire yet.
There are no bad people in this world, only the bad choices they might make. And, from what I read, I concluded that this guy mentioned in the OP's messages is a manipulative jerk. It's definitely not me lumping all men or boys in with each other (on the contrary, I have an eternal belief in love), but rather, I felt I was simply calling a spade a spade. I pay a lot of attention to my gut instinct (it's kind of like mother radar, only less comprehensive because I lack wisdom) and my gut instinct tells me that this guy is not someone the OP's daughter needs in her life.
My post wasn't advice, but it was the situation as I saw it, as I still painfully remember it, and what I can see happening in this situation that I didn't see happening right under my own nose with my ex.
It may not be a foregone conclusion, but I'm scared for the OP and her daughter that this guy is toxic. If I can try and help one other girl realise that she deserves better than what this guy is dishing out, I will be happy.
ETA: Just because this sort of treatment might be what people are used to from these sorts of people (again, as seen with my ex, whose temper tanties were explained away as "That's James, get over it") does not mean everyone needs to put up with it. I was at the point where I was aghast that this was considered "normal". He treated a lot of people like dirt and they just took it. That's not normal behaviour, especially when they feel they need not justify it anymore.
Edited 10/10/2007 8:17 am ET by abbag1rl
Thanks to everyone for the comments and advice.
DD said that everything went well at school yesterday.
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