Age of Consent?

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2007
Age of Consent?
48
Mon, 03-24-2008 - 5:15pm
I noticed that the issue of parental notification/consent and opinions on statutory rape has come up a few times. I thought it might be interesting to get people's opinions on the concept of a legal age of consent. Do you think it's a good thing, or should the gov't not be legislating in this matter? Thoughts?




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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2007
Tue, 03-25-2008 - 1:57pm

"I would be willing to allow 'sex ed' more openly in our schools via Planned Parenthood programs IF true medical information were also taught in regards to human life and the fact that the unborn are human beings, not clots, and all information were given regarding when the heart beats, when the nervous systems kicks in , etc.... thus PP teaching a woman's right and then the side of the human being who may be aborted being presented by informing girls about the humanity of the life."

What credible sex-ed programs are teaching that a z/e/f is simply a blood clot? I have seen many people write that that is what it looked like, but I haven't heard anyone say that that is all it was.




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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-04-2008
Tue, 03-25-2008 - 1:59pm

What I said was that they should not be able to press stat. rape charges due to a change in mind regarding the boyfriend that they previously approved of.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-04-2008
Tue, 03-25-2008 - 2:05pm

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Didn't say a credible sex ed program was teaching that.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2007
Tue, 03-25-2008 - 3:25pm

"So, if what was taught, as part of sex ed, were the true developmental stages and development of life from day one through delivery, as well as PP backed sex ed - I would be willing to deal with it."

Again, I'm not aware that children are NOT being taught about true developmental stages. I can certainly say that I got a very solid education on the mechanics of human pregnancy in my 9th grade biology class (not optional), with significantly more detail in the AP Biology class I took the next year (optional). Any kid who came out of my biology class who didn't know that the heart starts beating at five weeks wasn't paying attention.

"However, sex ed taught with a minimal emphasis on human development (taught so clinically that the idea of the humanity of the unborn is completely forgotteen) is not serving up a fair and balanced presentation of abortion."

Again, at this time, are they typically taught with a minimal emphasis on human development? How can you advocate for something that you cannot confirm may already exist?

"I would agree to teach girls that abortion is a chioce - as long as the total ramifications of that choice were presented and that would include teaching the true humanity and living that is going on in utero when the choice to end the life is made."

Ah, but the devil is in the details. If you seek not to present it from a clinical perspective, then you run the risk of losing all objectivity. Who decides what to discuss? I've posted the House report on AO sex-ed programs, and they vary extremely widely on how they approach sex-ed. What is "true humanity," and how do you accurately express it to ten-year-olds? This is not objective, which means that everyone's got a different opinion on what it means and how best to express it.

"Terminate is such a 'nice' term for what actually happens in an abortion."

Definition of "terminate" (from Dictionary.com):

1. to bring to an end; put an end to: to terminate a contract.
2. to occur at or form the conclusion of: The countess's soliloquy terminates the play.
3. to bound or limit spatially; form or be situated at the extremity of.
4. to dismiss from a job; fire: to terminate employees during a recession.
–verb (used without object)
5. to end, conclude, or cease.
6. (of a train, bus, or other public conveyance) to end a scheduled run at a certain place: This train terminates in New York.
7. to come to an end (often fol. by at, in, or with).
8. to issue or result (usually fol. by in).

"It should be called what it is - ending the life of the unborn. For it is a life and should be presented as such."

Is anyone saying that it is not life that is being ended in the case of abortion? Really, if you're going to advocate a radical change in sex-ed programs, you need to address what is actually being said. You're saying that this or that should be included or changed, but the only examples you provide are anecdotal from individuals. Changing sex ed programs will not change what those individuals can/will say. If you've got issues with what PP is teaching kids, then you need to address precisely what they are teaching- not what individuals that have no connection to PP are saying.




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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-04-2008
Tue, 03-25-2008 - 3:34pm

One question;


Are they saying that abortion ends the beating of a heart?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 03-25-2008 - 4:17pm

>Are they saying that abortion ends the beating of a heart?

Sandy
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2007
Tue, 03-25-2008 - 4:55pm

"Are they saying that abortion ends the beating of a heart? Are they saying that death is determined when the heart stops beating - thus we are not just terminating a pregnancy - but a human being is dying?"

I actually went to try to find a sex-ed program that PP is offering, but since they're not free, I could only get summaries. See, what you are looking for here is emphasis, not statement. I am sure that they any comprehensive sex-ed program that includes abortion is implying that there is no life to abort, simply because it is ridiculous to think that abortion is not ending life. PP's website for teens, teenwire.com, mentioned "fetal demise" at least once in its description of what happens during an abortion.

"And information can be presented in a way to dismiss or minimize the overall action being taken."

And since the definition of "dismiss" or "minimize" is subjective, you could never be sure if it was accurate or not if you chose not to focus on a clinical objective approach. Should they mention the stopping of the beating heart twice, as you did, or is one time enough? How about ten times- is that overemphasis? Who gets to decide these things?

You should definitely check out teenwire.com. It's a little difficult to navigate because it's directed at kids, so some of the info is watered down. Otherwise, it's pretty accurate. It makes sense that they don't focus a ton on pregnancy itself, since their emphasis is the planning part of parenthood, but they do spend quite a bit of time talking about making decisions in regards to pregnancy and I don't see any evidence of them saying that it's not a life being aborted or that it's "just a clot."




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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-04-2008
Tue, 03-25-2008 - 4:57pm

Does the pill stop a beating heart?


As I said - it is how information is given.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2007
Tue, 03-25-2008 - 5:03pm

"Give the fact that a beating heart is stopped in order to end a pregnancy and it is a different paradigm."

Yes, and to some people that paradigm pushes more towards the "abortion is murder" stance than it does towards the middle. Again, who gets to decide what emphasis is acceptable?




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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2008 - 11:04am

>Does the pill stop a beating heart?<


Nope. But then Catholics and others would assert that life begins before the heart starts beating.


But let's carry this further. If we're going to teach pre-teens that abortion "stops a beating heart", shouldn't we also teach the same thing about things they're already doing, namely eating meat and

Sandy