Any thoughts on this?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-08-2007
Any thoughts on this?
12
Wed, 07-25-2007 - 4:20pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCVVXbAOSko

It's a 6 minute piece from a documentary about late-term abortions being done in Russia. I am not quite sure what method is being used, but the girls are actually delivering the dead remains. There's an interesting part at the end where the doctor performing the abortions makes a statement about abortion being the best option, yet it's still legalized murder.

Ella Grayce

Lilypie1st Birthday Ticker

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-18-2006
Wed, 07-25-2007 - 9:47pm
If they are delievering them it is an induction abortion. They happen a lot more in Europe and Asia
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-14-2003
Wed, 07-25-2007 - 11:35pm

Wow, 80% of all women in Russia have abortions, averaging 2-10 each. That number is TRAGIC. There CLEARLY is a problem with sex ed, and it goes to show the level of financial destitution that so many choose to abort. I am ANGRY at this, although I would like to see some formal data to back these assertions up. They are failing their women and their future generations. It is evident just how their young mothers to be are treated by the way that nurse speaks to the 15 year old CHILD. "Don't be a coward", she says. Excuse me, but I am a full grown adult woman and I would be terrified to be in such a situation. How traumatic for such a young girl.

I am not supportive of elective later term abortions. I have a moral repulsion to them because the fetus has been allowed to develop and to me it crosses the ethical lines. Still, I'm left standing with my arms in the air in sheer frustration because the alternative is equally as repugnant. Forcing these young disadvantaged women to give birth in such an economically and socially depressed society is not any kind of life for them or for their offspring. I support neither outcome, and that leaves me with only one alternative, and that is to think of a solution, yet the solution requires a societal change.

Wow, what a sad reality.

Conditions are so bad and bleak for children that the "better" alternative is to kill them. That is horrid. Truly. How bad must the conditions be and how desperate can these women be to kill their own. That speaks volumes. This world better correct itself. Children are being sold and rejected. Unwanted children already born are being treated like cattle. I don't even see this as a true choice for these women and young girls. It literally is a tool of survival. Imagine that. The only solution to ensure your survival is to terminate your pregnancy and ensure your genetics are not continued. If it were on a wider scale, it would spell the end of mankind. Maybe nature is culling us. WE are culling us.

This is so incredibly sad that the word sad doesn't even do it justice. These women have no real choice in the matter. It's sink or swim.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-03-2007
Thu, 07-26-2007 - 9:32am

Russia is very very sad. Off the top of my head, the developed nations that have very high abortion rates are Cuba and Russia. Romania is still high but dropping rapidly as they get their medical infrastructure into shape in recent years.

Cuba has issues because the US has an embargo preventing importation of many things such as pencils, paper, and most medications including birth control - so pregnancy prevention becomes difficult, while a suction procedure with re-sterilizable equipment remains available. I traveled there on a religious visa exemption in 1998, and though I was much less educated and younger at that point I did visit schools and hospitals and saw how these shortages are very real. So I can understand that they are in a constrained situation.

Russia, however, is just in a sad place. They also have insanely high rates of alcoholism and a *decreasing* life expectancy due to lifestyle-related issues. Something about their culture got broken in the 80's, and it has had widespread ramifications. They have the highest suicide rate in the developed world. They have no sex ed. My understanding from a woman from Tadzhikistan that I worked with for 2 years is that their entire medical care system is a joke, as well - clearly she wasn't from the most stable part of the Russian-area nations but she described that your family needed to pay cash to even get you into an ambulance to go to a hospital, no matter how sick you may be.

The way that abortions are handled in their nation is miserable, but seems to be par for the course right now.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-03-2007
Thu, 07-26-2007 - 9:38am

Here's a 2003 story published in the BBC, describing changes that year in abortion availability in Russia. Also describes orphans being kept in mixed-gender housing through puberty without sex ed, resulting in (duh) pregnancy. Horrible.

Russia turns spotlight on abortion
By Robert Greenall
BBC News Online

Russia could be on the point of a significant change in direction on morality and sexual issues, as a major debate looms over the rights of women and unborn children.

A government resolution on abortion, approved last month, is the first restriction of any kind on the practice since a ban imposed by Stalin was lifted in 1955.

Russia is currently estimated to have nearly 13 terminations for every 10 live births, and the highest abortion rate in Europe after Romania.

The resolution, which went virtually unnoticed in the country's media, envisages restrictions on women's access to abortion after 12 weeks.

Alexander Chuyev, a pro-life campaigner and independent deputy in the State Duma, described it as a "small victory".

But some pro-choice campaigners see it as the thin end of the wedge.

Previously, women in Russia could receive an abortion between 12 and 22 weeks of pregnancy by citing 13 special circumstances, including divorce, poverty and poor housing.

These have now been reduced to four:

* Rape
* Imprisonment
* Death or severe disability of husband
* Court ruling stripping of woman of parental rights

The measure is now irreversible, although it has still to go through the bureaucratic machinery of the Ministry of Health before it can be put into practice.

It may be that this will not make much of a dent in the overall statistics - officially only 7% of women who seek abortions do so between 12 and 22 weeks of pregnancy.

But Mr Chuyev told BBC News Online he was now pushing for a law to protect the rights of children, including the unborn.

He hopes that any new measure will provide for the right to medical help for both the mother and the child, potentially making it harder for women to abort for medical reasons - something which has not been affected by the current resolution.

One factor which may have given the pro-lifers' message more resonance with the government is the rapid decline in Russia's population, which could shrink by as much as 30 million in the next few decades.

But experts say the resolution will not fundamentally affect the country's birth rate.

"Women are very decisive," Victoria Sakevich, abortion specialist at the Academy of Sciences' Laboratory for the Analysis and Forecasting of Human Reproduction, told BBC News Online. "If they don't want to give birth, they'll find ways to have abortions."

Education problem

Most pro-choice campaigners agree that something must be done to reduce the abortion rate, but they say that the most important priority is education, the lack of which is in itself contributing to population decline.


ABORTIONS IN RUSSIA - MINISTRY OF HEALTH FIGURES
1990 - 3.92 million
1995 - 2.57 million
2000 - 1.96 million
2002 - 1.78 million
Many couples in Russia are infertile because of poor access to information about sexually transmitted diseases, Dr Grebesheva says, and some women are infertile because of abortions which would have been unnecessary had they had access to contraceptives.

Almost everyone agrees on the need for some form of education for adolescents, but that is about as far as the consensus goes.

There is no real programme for sex education in schools despite a 10-year discussion in government, a fact which incenses many campaigners.

"A 14-year-old receives no sex education but he can already be convicted for the crime of rape," says Dr Grebesheva.

'Widespread ignorance'

As it happens, the number of abortions has been falling in recent years, from a peak of 4.6 million in 1988 to under 1.8 million last year.

This suggests that knowledge about and availability of contraception is having some impact on sexual activity.

But Juliette Engels, the founding director of Moscow's Miramed institute - which runs a programme for single parents and women on low incomes - casts doubt on these figures, saying that half of all abortions are not recorded.

She is particularly concerned about the problem of pregnancies in orphanages, where children often live through puberty together without any proper adult supervision. These pregnancies are often not known about until after 12 weeks.

So the resolution may have more of an impact than some might think.

But the underlying problem, she suggests, is that the government simply lacks the will to tackle the broader issues.

"Russia has every resource it needs to address social problems, if it wants to survive," she said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3093152.stm

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-08-2007
Thu, 07-26-2007 - 10:04am

Thank you for all that Wobit...

I can't believe the part about 13 abortions for every 10 live births. That's a sad sad situation over there. They were very forceful with the young girls also.

Ella Grayce

Lilypie1st Birthday Ticker
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-11-2006
Fri, 07-27-2007 - 8:44pm

SICK SICK SICK. one of my good friends was from russia and they are brainwashed into thinking that abortion is considered "healthy and actually recommended" just like going to the dentist to get your teeth cleaned.

i kid you not

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-03-2007
Fri, 07-27-2007 - 8:58pm

My experience in Cuba was sadly similar - they didn't have the resources for pregnancy testing, while the equipment for aspiration abortion was re-sterilizable and reusable, so I was told (not by a medical person but by a woman I was staying with) that typically a woman would get an aspiration if her period was several weeks late, without testing for pregnancy. That was back in 98. The phrase they used translates to "menstrual regulation".

I can't see how that's safe, let alone good.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 07-30-2007 - 2:16pm

"one of my good friends was from russia and they are brainwashed into thinking that abortion is considered "healthy and actually recommended" just like going to the dentist to get your teeth cleaned."

If they are conditioned to believe/think this way, then that is very sad.

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 07-30-2007 - 2:17pm

What I saw was horrible, and what I don't understand is why are these women putting themselves through this 2-10 times, if this is the average as the woman on the video claims?

Sue




Edited 7/30/2007 2:17 pm ET by californiadreammin
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-03-2007
Mon, 07-30-2007 - 4:36pm

<>

I don't know if rural Russia is in the same bad place, but it Cuba they couldn't access birth control. I mean, even if you wash condoms out and reroll, they break down and stop working pretty quickly. Aspiration was their only choice.

Almost sounds worse that way than not knowing, because they know there is a better way to do it.

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